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Default Kingmaker - Review @ Gamebanshee

November 12th, 2018, 22:11
So sayeth the fanatical fanboy. Sorry Fluent.
Fanaticism (from the Latin adverb fānāticē (fren-fānāticus; enthusiastic, ecstatic; raging, fanatical, furious) is a belief or behavior involving uncritical zeal or with an obsessive enthusiasm.
So in this case I'm proud to be a pessimist.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:14
Since I'm testing patch 1.1, I will share my impression on it. I'd say most of bugs are addressed, except the final dungeon in chapter 6. Took me well over 100 hours to get to that point. So, I'd say good for those who were waiting to start jumping in.

Now, if Owlcats can balance/tweak final dungeon, I will be a happy camper and start my 3rd playthrough.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:16
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
So in this case I'm proud to be a pessimist.
I'm finding this funny. I've been told I'm a pessimist, and I saw Couch as optimist but in this case we are totally opposite lol.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:19
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
I'm finding this funny. I've been told I'm a pessimist, and I saw Couch as optimist but in this case we are totally opposite lol.
Nah my moods change a few times a year..

Magic 8 ball just landed on pessimist right now.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:20
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
I think there surely is a quite unhealthy dose of undue praising, yes. A lot of media outlets are giving the bugs offhand remarks and counting on the future patches to fix it all up, thus not giving the low score the game deserves, consequently not giving the devs the bad rep they deserve.
Sorry, but a game doesn't deserve a low score because of bugs alone. A game should be scored low for being a bad game. There have been quite a few games over the years that were buggy at release and still went on to be considered classics over time.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:26
I don't think so. The overall package should be taken into consideration and judged, bugs included.

If the bugs are minor and easily fixable, we should be more flexible when evaluating the product.

Unfortunately, in this case, the bugs (amount and severity) are just overwhelming. A lot of people just cannot play because of them, let alone finish it.

I think cases like this should be frowned upon and made an example of.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Sorry, but a game doesn't deserve a low score because of bugs alone. A game should be scored low for being a bad game. There have been quite a few games over the years that were buggy at release and still went on to be considered classics over time.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:34
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
I don't think so. The overall package should be taken into consideration and judged, bugs included.

If the bugs are minor and easily fixable, we should be more flexible when evaluating the product.

Unfortunately, in this case, the bugs (amount and severity) are just overwhelming. A lot of people just cannot play because of them, let alone finish it.

I think cases like this should be frowned upon and made an example of.
You don't seem to be judging the overall package though, you're judging it based on the bugs at release.

Based on that, games like Fallout 2, Gothic, V:TM-Bloodlines, and The Witcher would all be considered garbage.

You also seem to be exaggerating to a degree. Most people are not finding the bugs "overwhelming". Some are experiencing more bugs than others, but it seems like the people who claim it's literally unplayable are a very small minority.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:36
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
I don't think so. The overall package should be taken into consideration and judged, bugs included.

If the bugs are minor and easily fixable, we should be more flexible when evaluating the product.

Unfortunately, in this case, the bugs (amount and severity) are just overwhelming. A lot of people just cannot play because of them, let alone finish it.

I think cases like this should be frowned upon and made an example of.
I can't speak for everyone, but I didn't run into critical bugs until later stage of the game. As I mentioned several times, by then, I have played close to 100 hours. I'd say that was money well spent.

Yes, I'm raging hard at the final dungeon of chapter 6 (I heard chapter 7 is optional?) not because of bugs, but rather tedious, imbalanced encounter design coupled with frequent loading screens - this brought down my score from 9 to 8. But if you ask me, it was still most fun, engaging, complex gaming experience I had in years.

So as a whole package, it gets thumbs up from me.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:40
Also for the record I have no problem with how @purpleblob is biased towards the game in threads. It's her right to be but at least she has talked about the bugs reasonably.

Especially when I brought it up in other threads. So thanks for that.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:43
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
But if you ask me, it was still most fun, engaging, complex gaming experience I had in years.
Same here. By far the best CRPG since the Baldur's Gate series.

And @Couchpotato, I'd complain more about bugs if I experienced more bugs. Up until the end of Act 4 I had nothing significant and no reason to complain, and now I'm 300+ hours into playing the game with nothing game-breaking. I can only speak to my experience and it has been a good one with no major bugs to bother about.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
You don't seem to be judging the overall package though, you're judging it based on the bugs at release.

Based on that, games like Fallout 2, Gothic, V:TM-Bloodlines, and The Witcher would all be considered garbage.

You also seem to be exaggerating to a degree. Most people are not finding the bugs "overwhelming". Some are experiencing more bugs than others, but it seems like the people who claim it's literally unplayable are a very small minority.
Yep. And to your first point, add Morrowind, Arcanum, Daggerfall, Fallout: New Vegas, and a plethora of other RPGs that released with bugs. In those days there weren't patches to address the problems so we lived with them. Now we have a dev who is working hard to correct everything and we want to boycott that? Silly, silly.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:45
I have to agree with both sides when it comes to Kingmaker. It's a great game and I will always want more deep roleplaying games. It is also unacceptable to release a game that can't be finished at release. Owlcat is lucky the game takes so long to finish. If it was a 20-40 hour game I think people would be killing it.

Whoever here made the comment about Russian companies and bugs hit the nail right on the head.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:50
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Sorry, but a game doesn't deserve a low score because of bugs alone. A game should be scored low for being a bad game. There have been quite a few games over the years that were buggy at release and still went on to be considered classics over time.
Low score, no. Lower, yes.
But 10/10 goty? Before being patched up? Most definetly not!
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November 12th, 2018, 22:51
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Also for the record I have no problem with how @purpleblob is biased towards the game in threads. It's her right to be but at least she has talked about the bugs reasonably.

Especially when I brought it up in other threads. So thanks for that.
I recognise there are numerous bugs, and will definitely comment on it in my review. But also, thanks for respecting my opinion of the game, I really am enjoying the game despite the bugs and other issues, and would like to really spend time explaining why in my review.

@joxer I don't remember seeing anyone here calling it 10/10 GOTY.

My GOTY for sure but not 10/10
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November 12th, 2018, 22:54
Not all bugs carry the same weight.
The unlockable gamestopper door in Skyrim's main story is worse than a few silly bugged textures in any game that affect the game nohow.
The items disappearing on game save from inventory horror in Prey is worse than item duping or money getting infinetly due to a bug abuse in any game.
etc

If an obviously broken game can still be finished without pulling up tricks and threading carefully, it's still better than an almost bugfree release that at one point prevents everyone from proceeding forward due to one critical bug.
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November 12th, 2018, 22:54
Hopefully people can tell by my posts that I lean to the very pro-Pathfinder Kingmaker game side. I'm not all that concerned over bugs, as already said, the developer is fixing them and being diligent about it. That said, maybe there is something to the notion of Russian developers not having great expertise (in game programming) and often seeming to have lots of bugs in their games, I admit having heard that in the past a few times.
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November 12th, 2018, 23:02
Really? I do remember crapload of bugs in Sea Dogs, but on the other hand I don't remember seeing that many in King's Bounty games.
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November 12th, 2018, 23:04
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Not all bugs carry the same weight.
The unlockable gamestopper door in Skyrim's main story is worse than a few silly bugged textures in any game that affect the game nohow.
The items disappearing on game save from inventory horror in Prey is worse than item duping or money getting infinetly due to a bug abuse in any game.
etc

If an obviously broken game can still be finished without pulling up tricks and threading carefully, it's still better than an almost bugfree release that at one point prevents everyone from proceeding forward due to one critical bug.
Sorry but to this, I will say "no shit Sherlock"

Since I'm close to the end of the game, I'd say I haven't really ran into game breaking bugs. I ran into a number of critical bugs that affect outcome of the story unfairly/incorrectly (which made me mad/sad - not saying it's ok to have these bugs but not game breaking never the less). I had more issues with some of the design choices rather.

Also, I can say that a vast number of reported "bugs" weren't really bugs, just misunderstanding of mechanics and (questionable) design choices.
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November 12th, 2018, 23:06
Yeah, sure, you can ask all over the world when it comes to bugs Russian companies are the first to come to mind: Bethesda, Microsoft ..
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November 12th, 2018, 23:09
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Really? I do remember crapload of bugs in Sea Dogs, but on the other hand I don't remember seeing that many in King's Bounty games.
Are you kidding those games have been patched like crazy, and still have some game breaking ones. If I recall a few fans have made unofficial patches to fix them.

Hmm I believe the publisher was 1C Company notorious for releasing sub-par bugged games. Also let me refer you guys to the various past Russian Fallout clones nuff said.

Don't get me started on the Engrish(Bad English) translations.

At least Pathfinder has good translators
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Last edited by Couchpotato; November 13th, 2018 at 00:48.
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