|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Dragon Age: Inquisition - On Critics of Dorian

Default Dragon Age: Inquisition - On Critics of Dorian

July 5th, 2014, 08:33
Seems David Gaider has once again responded to critics of the recently revealed Dragon Age: Inquisition character Dorian being gay. Keep the comments civil please.

Bioware’s lead writer David Gaider has harsh words for people complaining about Dragon Age: Inquisition character Dorian being gay.

First off, Gaider goes off on one site’s coverage from a community interview. While a fan just had a question about Dorian’s sexuality, an unnamed site has apparently changed it completely to ‘Bioware made a press release to announce it’, as if this was done for publicity.

Then Gaider points out that Dorian isn’t just defined by his sexuality, much like any other Dragon Age or Bioware character is not. As he points out, if that is all you care about from him, that is entirely from you.

Finally, Gaider points out that Dorian is not even the first gay character he has ever written. Sera is the first Dragon Age character to be gay, and outside of that universe, Bioware has already had characters like Cortez, Traynor, and Juhani.

I would add in that as a matter of agency and character customization, when Bioware added the option to play female Shepard in Mass Effect, but leaving much of the storyline (including Shepard’s attraction to women) intact, I would argue that that, as well, amounted to Gaider creating a gay character.

As a final salvo, when asked about EA catering to the LGBT for profit, Gaider points out the hypocrisy of this argument. Is catering to straight white guys any better than this? If we have to take that argument and make those assumptions about developers at all, I would say no. You can read Gaider's original tweets below.
Thanks go to gameranx for compiling the replies.

More information.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
In the Name of Kane!

#1

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 18,045
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 08:33
If they hate gay people so much, they should be glad there is a gay character in the game, it will allow them to torture this guy and gloat at his suffering, no?
domein is offline

domein

domein's Avatar
Vintage Brewer

#2

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 09:35
I don´t care that he´s gay.

But he looks and feels way off the lore and impression of the world I had when playing DA:O
But that's my take of the world and I never managed to play DA2 more than a couple of hours.

Breaks my immersion, as if I would have Rainbow Dash for a companion in the game.
(two young daughters, I'm bombarded with my little ponie)

I want to look forward to the game, but the companions presented leaves me unmoved.

C
Crilloan is offline

Crilloan

Sentinel

#3

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WGS84 Latitud:59.85 Longitud:17.65
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 10:43
I don't care that there are gay characters/companions. But many times I feel the sexuality is forced just so they can say "Look, we have gay characters, yay us!". In the midst of all that was happening in DA2 for example, I didn't feel that Ander's dialogue was natural. I found myself thinking more than once "Really, that's what you want to say right now?"
SonOfCapiz is offline

SonOfCapiz

Sentinel

#4

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 10:49
Originally Posted by SonOfCapiz View Post
I don't care that there are gay characters/companions. But many times I feel the sexuality is forced just so they can say "Look, we have gay characters, yay us!". In the midst of all that was happening in DA2 for example, I didn't feel that Ander's dialogue was natural. I found myself thinking more than once "Really, that's what you want to say right now?"
I'm feeling a similar thing.

To me, it's not the sexual orientation that matters - it's the deeds the characters do which mater far much more to me.

But - Bioware should REALLY push the envelope and include characters which are

- autistic
- borderliners
- depressive
- having Synaestesia
- are highly intellectually gifted
- handicapped (a missing leg or arm)
- deaf

etc. - including characters with other sexual orientations should only the beginning.
--
“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#5

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 18,036
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 10:59
Originally Posted by SonOfCapiz View Post
I don't care that there are gay characters/companions. But many times I feel the sexuality is forced just so they can say "Look, we have gay characters, yay us!". In the midst of all that was happening in DA2 for example, I didn't feel that Ander's dialogue was natural. I found myself thinking more than once "Really, that's what you want to say right now?"
Well put!

C
Crilloan is offline

Crilloan

Sentinel

#6

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WGS84 Latitud:59.85 Longitud:17.65
Posts: 435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 12:25
"Scandal" sells and it seems that revealing this character did the trick for EA.
In my local gaming newspaper online there are dozens of comments on this, homophobic, homophilic, xenophobic, sexist, name it. And it's not the first ingame NPC they've revealed, just in this case, comments are multiplying.

And now Gaider makes another entry on it. Of course he does, more trolls, more sells. Bah. Like it's the first gay character ever in a game.

All I want is DA3 not being ME3 where every single NPC wants to go to bed with my hero. It felt utterly retarded there, honestly they've made Shepard a pheromonic abomination. Gaider of course won't talk about that. It doesn't sell the game. And EA is lurking.

Next DA:I news? Make any NPC go instantly into bed with your hero DLC. 540 Bioware Points only.
--
Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#7

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,671
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 12:29
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
But - Bioware should REALLY push the envelope and include characters which are

- autistic
- borderliners
- depressive
- having Synaestesia
- are highly intellectually gifted
- handicapped (a missing leg or arm)
- deaf

etc. - including characters with other sexual orientations should only the beginning.
Great idea!
Morrandir is offline

Morrandir

Morrandir's Avatar
SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#8

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,882
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 12:39
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
All I want is DA3 not being ME3 where every single NPC wants to go to bed with my hero. It felt utterly retarded there, honestly they've made Shepard a pheromonic abomination. Gaider of course won't talk about that. It doesn't sell the game. And EA is lurking.
I mentioned DA2 but now recall that ME3 was worse. Must have repressed the memory It got so bad in ME3 that I soon dreaded it every time I spoke to a character (How are you going to seduce me THIS time?!). The whole sexuality being "out there" makes the game supposedly merit a "mature" rating but I found it rather pubescent if anything.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
But - Bioware should REALLY push the envelope and include characters which are

- autistic
- borderliners
- depressive
- having Synaestesia
- are highly intellectually gifted
- handicapped (a missing leg or arm)
- deaf

etc. - including characters with other sexual orientations should only the beginning.
The variation in companions would certainly be welcome! But it's getting to that ridiculous point where there will always be complaints from the "unrepresented" group i.e. "Why don't you have (insert race here), female, gay, handicapped, etc characters?!"
SonOfCapiz is offline

SonOfCapiz

Sentinel

#9

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 13:01
While I love LGBT(QQA) people being better represented, I look forward to when this won't be a big deal anymore, for anyone. Though my thought is that this is less the developer making a big deal than it is really insecure people making a big deal about it.

Because of the news articles Couch has posted on this site, I've turned completely around on this game, and I think I'll get it when it comes out. To me, Bioware's finally done the right thing and while I'm still angry about Mass Effect, I think I'll give DA:I a shot. Their inclusive stance has made me feel welcome.
Aubrielle is offline

Aubrielle

Aubrielle's Avatar
Rabbit Mafia
Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#10

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: 1920
Posts: 2,811
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 13:47
I would really like to see a deaf character in a Bioware game. Partly because this could be interesting, partly because I have a deaf niece And it would really be interesting to see sign language in a Bioware game….
--
Please support http://www.maternityworldwide.org/ - and save a mother giving birth to a child.
aries100 is offline

aries100

SasqWatch
RPGWatch Team

#11

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark, Europe
Posts: 2,220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 18:31
They should spare us this whole romance thing. I already hate that every book, every movie and every CRPG must have a romance option. It feels like a checklist of things you are not allowed to leave out. But most writers are simple unable to write convincing romances. So I'm d'accord with MCA when he says he hates romances.

On the political aspect of this: All men are equal, so are their depictions in games.
--
A-Van-Te-Nor: A big car full of black hot beverage
Avantenor is offline

Avantenor

Avantenor's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#12

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 18:38
Originally Posted by Avantenor View Post
But most writers are simple unable to write convincing romances.
Can you give examples of romance done right in games? Escapes me at the moment.
SonOfCapiz is offline

SonOfCapiz

Sentinel

#13

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 18:58
Originally Posted by SonOfCapiz View Post
Can you give examples of romance done right in games? Escapes me at the moment.
That's because it has no place in games. Games are games. You can only RP so much with AI. People who get into the marrying of AI and/or romancing/sexing up of AIs are kind of depraved or demented.

While I'm supportive of the gay movement and all that, I'm also pretty sick of hearing about it, and I don't need it (or ANY romantic idiocy) in my video games. All of this nonsense to me is more about publicity than social responsibility or anything remotely necessary.
Voqar is offline

Voqar

PC Gaming Snob

#14

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 19:17
Originally Posted by Voqar View Post
I don't need it (or ANY romantic idiocy) in my video games. All of this nonsense to me is more about publicity than social responsibility or anything remotely necessary.
I tend to agree with this. I think it's rather pointless to include in games. I, for one, don't need it nor want it, and I wish the developers would spend those resources elsewhere. But that's just me.

For some reason, romance options have really caught on in video games. I just want good gameplay, not the ability to have sex with the other characters in the game.

Deleted User

Guest

#15

Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 20:58
Originally Posted by Voqar View Post
That's because it has no place in games. Games are games. You can only RP so much with AI.
While you might be right here, the same goes for virtualy any social interaction, so any interaction with NPC. Of course current AI isn't sophisticated enough to model NPCs behaviour credibly.
In party based games the main char is somehow special and a dozen guys (being "companions") just follow im in his quests, accepting virtually any of his decisions, waging battle although chances of success are minimal. Why? Answers are often given, but in a very shallow way, because it's really difficult to create AIs acting credible and making the game playable. Same goes for quest giving NPCs: you go to a pub and there's some guy who sees you for the first time and nevertheless he tells you about his life and gives you a quest to bring back his lost familiy heirloom or whatever. Why does this guy trust the main char? Seldomly there's a credible, plausibly answer given.
So we go a little closer to romances, which of course are just a special type of social relationship. There's friendship, hate, envy and so on. All these relationships are present in todays RPGs, but these relationships and all the more their development can't be modeled realistically.
The rendering of all of these things in video games is just a poor approximation of how it really works.

So why should romances be kept out? Because shallow quest givers and henchmen are a well established concept in RPGs and romances are not? I think that would be wrong.

Of course there are prople who don't pursue romances in RPGs, so any of the developer's invested resources are wasted from their point of view. But same goes for other concepts as well. I don't like crafting for example and avoid it as far as possible. That's wasted resources for me. But that's the way it is and I don't complain. There's hardly any game where I really like all and every feature. And I think that goes for everybody.

People who get into the marrying of AI and/or romancing/sexing up of AIs are kind of depraved or demented
Sorry to be straightforward, but that's just bullshit. Indeed I feel offended.
Last edited by Morrandir; July 5th, 2014 at 22:00.
Morrandir is offline

Morrandir

Morrandir's Avatar
SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#16

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,882
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 22:27
Originally Posted by Avantenor View Post
I already hate that … every movie … must have a romance option.
Pan's labyrinth:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0457430/
A masterpiece without romances.

Then there is another masterpiece and it's sequel in which a romance is just wished for, but can't happen/continue. The Raid Redemption and The Raid 2:
www.imdb.com/title/tt1899353
www.imdb.com/title/tt2265171

Of course, there is a masterpiece driven by romance and only romance, in fact a love triangle in House of Flying Daggers:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385004


So no, not every movie has to have a romance. Also not every game needs it. But if it's there, just make it properly. Not crappy.


Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
I just want good gameplay, not the ability to have sex with the other characters in the game.
Oh I want the ability. But since it's RPG, I want it a levelable skill if it's in the game. Or set of perks like in FO2.
--
Toka Koka
Last edited by joxer; July 5th, 2014 at 22:39.
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#17

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,671
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)

Default 

July 5th, 2014, 22:35
A lot of games don't have a romance option. It's not like we are having an epidemic!
zahratustra is offline

zahratustra

SasqWatch

#18

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,711
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Default 

July 6th, 2014, 04:36
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
A lot of games don't have a romance option. It's not like we are having an epidemic!
That's right. It's just another reason not to buy a BioWare game, not that I particularly needed another.
Capt. Huggy Face is online now

Capt. Huggy Face

Capt. Huggy Face's Avatar
Aging Gamer
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#19

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

July 6th, 2014, 04:48
Originally Posted by Capt. Huggy Face View Post
That's right. It's just another reason not to buy a BioWare game, not that I particularly needed another.
I can't imagine playing this game unless I can leave every single angst-ridden companion alone and go with my own team. Hopefully, I can start a multi-player game where I create all the characters. If not, I'll skip the game till it's in a $5 sale. I still haven't bought Dragon Age II, whatever it was called.
--
c-computer, r-role, p-playing, g-game, nut-extreme fan
=crpgnut or just
'nut @crpgnut
crpgnut is offline

crpgnut

crpgnut's Avatar
Grumpy Role Player
Original Sin Donor

#20

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Louis, Mo USA
Posts: 7,274
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Dragon Age: Inquisition - On Critics of Dorian
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:07.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch