FTL - What games can learn from FTL

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This video has some interesting observations and made comparisons with other rpgs. Comparing risk and reward, moral choices that keep players guessing and particularly integrating gameplay into lore. I am agreeing with all points. It is a very well thought out video.

The problems of endless loot you don't use FTL solves by making items essential, because you are always on the move. Moral dilemmas are constant and there are no right or wrong answers. It depends on the player what the right answer is. Lore is not a book, it tells you what you need to know and these things are important to know in terms of gameplay. @12:30 I'm sure they are talking about Pillars of Eternity and Tides of Numenera figuratively speaking.
 
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Yes, the best games integrate gameplay into lore (or the other way around). Always has been like that.

Games where lore is just dumped on you and has no real relevance (PoE…), well it does not necessarily ruin a game, but it will never be great.

One of my "favorite" examples would be Fable 3, where some text popup with a number tells you how many people died (or you saved, don't remember). Those numbers go into the millions!

While the actual gameplay and world always show you maybe a dozen people or so, and the biggest city couldn't possibly have more than a few thousand. It just feels so off it is irritating.
The game wants to convey some scale, but just falls flat on its face.
 
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I like FTL it is a cleverly designed little game. Neo Scavenger is very good too.
 
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TheSHEEEP said:
Games where lore is just dumped on you and has no real relevance (PoE…), well it does not necessarily ruin a game, but it will never be great.
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How does Pillars of Eternity dump lore with no relevance and games like Fallout 1 and 2, Planescape or Baldur's Gate don't? (I'm assuming you don't think those games do, of course, but you could think precisely the opposite, I'm just curious).
 
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What games can learn from FTL
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Apart from being a luckbased slotmachine, there is nothing else other games can learn from this rubbish.
 
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Cacheperl said:
probably meant Path of Exile
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Thank you :)
I thought it might be Pillars of Eternity because it is a game with a lot of extraneous lore that basically adds to the world building without necessarily having to do with the gameplay. But then, that's traditional RPGs for you, right? They're all that like that, and that was my point.

As for Path of Exile, I don't know, don't remember much from it.
 
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@Morbus

He definitely meant Pillars of Eternity. It is somewhat off-topic, best that you read Vogel's blog. It's explained there very well.
 
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Hm Ok, I'd have assumed it's Path of Exile. It does have lore which is not too bad for a hack'n slash game, but of course completely without relevance for the player.
 
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luj1 said:
It is somewhat off-topic, best that you read Vogel's blog. It's explained there very well.
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No. That article states trivial points: rich and dense universes take time to be delivered and are not meant for players who did not want to allocate time.

Apart from that, the main value of the article is to be an example of how far can go players who are tortured by the idea of anything that is not centered about them.

The author demands an abstract version, this leads him to slash information while ignoring the whole version.
 
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Morbus said:
How does Pillars of Eternity dump lore with no relevance and games like Fallout 1 and 2, Planescape or Baldur's Gate don't? (I'm assuming you don't think those games do, of course, but you could think precisely the opposite, I'm just curious).
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That's simple. The lore that is dumped on to you in Pillars of Eternity just has no relevance whatsoever. It is just a wall of text containing absolutely 0 information useful to you (since the game's mechanics are only combat and all information there can be looked up by clicking on enemies). It's basically a setting wiki that you have to click through.

It's also written rather mediocre at best.
Admittedly, BG doesn't do it much better, but at least it does it far less.

Fallout 1 and 2 are written much better, but more importantly, texts there actually give you valuable information about factions, where to find more obscure things, who to make friends with, etc. You can directly make use of information gotten from texts in the game.

And Planescape… well, Planescape is a visual novel with some RPG mechanics and terrible combat in-between.
 
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These days, either unaware or accomplice, the distortions are so big.

TheSHEEEP said:
It is just a wall of text containing absolutely 0 information useful to you (since the game's mechanics are only combat and all information there can be looked up by clicking on enemies).
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No. The product's mechanics are not only combat. Part of the product is to deliver a rich and dense world and as such, the narrative design includes mechanics to deliver lore/story.
For example, companions are doors to the lore/story and the PC related actions are determined by lore.
Again circularity. No interest in lore then dismissal of the lore and the mechanics to deliver lore.
Lore is obviously relevant for anyone with the slightest interest in their companions and incidently the lore.
 
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Chien is like some artificial internet hivemind which pieces sentences together using Google translate :D Bless you
 
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An internet hivemind piecing sentences together through google translate...

The bit could be used to support an application to become a writer for PoE or Tyranny.
 
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Indeed man, your Malkavian-esque writing style beats lore dumps no problem! :D
 
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TheSHEEEP said:
Fallout 1 and 2 are written much better, but more importantly, texts there actually give you valuable information about factions, where to find more obscure things, who to make friends with, etc. You can directly make use of information gotten from texts in the game.

And Planescape… well, Planescape is a visual novel with some RPG mechanics and terrible combat in-between.
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Point #1 here, excellent. Gothic series is the same way, where you also have to pay attention to the lore and what people say to figure your way out in the game. That's the best type of writing for me as well.

As for PS:T having terrible combat, I have to disagree. I enjoyed the combat. I would have liked to have seen harder difficulty levels, though. Much harder. A difficulty level where, for example, cranium rat tails and items like that would make a much larger difference in combat would be great, and where item management would be a bit more demanding and impacting. But otherwise the game has solid combat mechanics, as the items and spells are all more useful than not and make a larger impact than in most RPGs (classic D&D video game stuff here.) And it's rather fun and satisfying like the other Infinity Engine RPGs are, with great presentation on the sound and graphics side (which I could really care less about, but worth mentioning I think.)

Main thing to learn from FTL is try and be in the right place at the right time. :D
 
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joxer said:
Apart from being a luckbased slotmachine, there is nothing else other games can learn from this rubbish.
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It's only luck based if you have no idea about how to play.

On the old "normal" difficulty (which was the highest difficulty in the beginning) I could win with a 99% chance because I know what I am doing.

There is actually not a lot of luck involved. Exception: If you chose an extreme ship like the stealth ship. If you get wrong events or enemies there you were toast.
But as long as you chose a balanced ship (like the one you start with), luck is negligible.

If it was luck based, I would not like it.
 
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Winning with a 99% chance doesn't seem much fun to me, but eh, to each their own. I need some luck/RNG involved nowadays to keep me interested.
 
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