When players ruin games…

Hello!

I ve realized that I ve not been enjoying role playing games as much as I used to.. At first I thought its probably because I am getting older, or that games arent just any good anymore… but perhaps sometimes its my fault.

I am trying to fix bad gaming habits that ruin a game that I could potetentially like or even adore should I not had those habits or playstyle, whichever you wanna call it. I ve got used to blaming gaming companies and while for sure some of the blame lies there, perhaps a big part is mine as well.

My RPG faults:
* Spoiler addicted.. almost always read the plot or parts of it before getting there.. ruined New Vegas and Gothic 1 for me..
* Powergaming.. always trying to maximize this or that ending up reading math instead of playing.. though developers should stop putting gimp skills.. Kinda ruined DA:O, all the TES games..
*Save game addicted.. both in combat and dialogue options. It makes playing much more tiresome and less challenging. It makes games also much easier to beat..
*Quester, I always try to do every little crappy quest despite the mood I am playing with my character. I suppose this is related to powergaming.
*Treasure hoarder, I have got a thing about spending consumables.. really lame. I never get to see that dimension of the game which sometimes is a big one.
*Restarting, not to be confused with replaying the game after I ve finished. More like restarting sucessive times trying to max this or that, try a different skill whatever. Really burns me out.

I am trying to fix these and already find games much more enjoyable.. I guess its about playing the game not beating the game. Anyone else wanna get some rpg sins off their chest?

I don't see being a quest addict as a fault. I mean that IS part of the game after all. I try to do every single quest possible. I'm alot more likely to replay a game that has quests that are exclusive to certain character builds or choices in the game. And that's a good thing IMO.

The rest are all things I'm fairly guilty of as well.

The restarting thing I do in almost every rpg that has any real variety of character builds (unless they have some way of redistributing points/skills/etc...which ALL games should have I think).

I try to have the willpower to avoid spoilers & walkthroughs until I actually get stuck or have finished the game once. Except for character builds, general tips, etc (which kinda leads to the powergaming thing.

The crafting material hording thing is just bizarre. I do it too and have NO idea why. I used to horde the friggin gems in the Baldur's Gate games. They have no use other than to sell for money and for some reason I horded them as much as possible. Completely weird.

One of the things I learned early in playing games (especially rpgs) is save early and save often. And use separate hard saves (not just quicksaves). So I don't see stopping this anytime soon. I remember losing many hours of older rpgs because the ONE save I was using became corrupted...never again. I do have the bad habit of reloading to try every dialogue choice before sticking to a certain one. Not necessarily to metagame and choose the "best" option...just out of curiosity. I love games like The Witcher and Alpha Protocol that stymie that by not showing the result of your choice till much later.

Im a min.maxer in recovery.

Now I just dont always make the right choices -I make the FUN choices. Seriously. 20 levels of "concentration" may net you a nigh-invincible character, but in the end it gets boring. Take "whirling decapitation" instead and have some fun. Put some challenge back into the game without having to resort to some ridiculous "nightmare" modes that have you pounding on mobs twice as long.
I still do explore every inch of every map tho, which is particularly brutal in MMO games….

I still do hoard consumables, to an extent.

Besides that, my only other vice is that I always try to get an upskirt peek on the female characters

First time I play through a game, I'm never sure of the difficulty curve so I end up hoarding a ton of gold, and min/maxing as much as possible, in anticipation of a possible spike in difficulty. Which these days almost never comes

So true. I also float in that boat.

Spoilers: I avoid these as much as I can. A few games (e.g. The Last Remnant) make them almost required reading, but in most games I can get through with only one or two glances to see if I just screwed something up or if the game is supposed to be that way.

Min/Max: Now wait a second, math rocks! Math and games together means transrocking fun! That said, I haven't messed with min/max'ing for a long time. Some MMOs pretty much require it and some games don't balance their stats well at all so it can still happen but it's getting rare.

Save game addicted? You mean AST (Aggressive Saving Technique), where you save the game every couple of seconds and reload if things go badly? Yeah, I remember using that a LOT in the original Tomb Raider game. Every time I actually managed to make a jump I would save. This isn't needed so much now because we can often change the difficulty settings but, if we can't, I'll go right back to this technique. It beats rage quitting.

Questor (aka Completionist): If I'm really liking a game I'll do this. Some games seem meant for people who have a lot more time to invest in a game than even I can manage, though, so I'll certainly skip things that don't sound fun to me. I'm not at all swayed by a feeling that I haven't "done the whole game" or haven't "gotten my money's worth" if I don't play every quest and get every fool DLC offering a company coughs up.

Hoarding: Yeah, still doing that. The problem is the unknown. When you play these games, you've got no idea if the difficult situation you are in is just a spike or the first step in a long stairway up to the heavens. Limitted inventories help here. I'm more likely to use stuff if I know I'm going to have to just throw it away at the end of a battle to make room for more loot.

Restarting: Hell no!! Well, I'll do this in MMOs but that's a different story. I did have to do this in Morrowind because I managed to gimp my character (that's likely a big reason why I liked Oblivion better) and I think I might have done it in Wizardry 8. Otherwise, I'll stick with what I have, even if I do walk with a slight gimp.

Another way to ruin a game for yourself… Going in with set ideas about how the game should work. If you go into a video game with preconceptions about how health should or shouldn't regenerate, about what kinds of spells a wizard should be able to cast, or about how high your character should be able to jump then you're just setting yourself up for frustration. First check out the game to see what kind of toys you've got THEN decide how to have fun with them.

I use gold cheats because I don't like the stinginess in many rpgs of how much money can be acquired and what price the good items are in stores. I don't like going in a store and seeing magical items with absurd price tags that will take a long time to make in the gaming world. However I don't consider it ruining the game, to me it makes the game much more fun. That's about it, the rest of those listed aren't applicable to me.

The problem for me of being "A completionist" is taking quests that either meaningless or against the mood of the character I am playing. Say for example I am running a bad guy as main, for some reason I always do the crappy fetch quests for the old lady and such. Again as someone said for Min/Max reasons but also because I suppose players have gotten used that the good moral options are the most benefitial in reward and especially quest length and plot… Some games have started to question this thankfully.

Fadista said:

*Quester, I always try to do every little crappy quest despite the mood I am playing with my character. I suppose this is related to powergaming.

*Treasure hoarder, I have got a thing about spending consumables.. really lame. I never get to see that dimension of the game which sometimes is a big one.

Click to expand...

Personally, I don't find "bad hbits" in these two. I do it myself.

The first one is - I think - something I do because I really want to experience every tiny bit of the story ...

Hoarding, however, can become a real problem when your inventory is full. My worst nightmares in this field were LOD and DS1.

Horading is very much supported in both Drakensang games, however : You can store LOTS of stuff within the house or on the ship !

It's more or less what zloth quote in last section of his post but I prefer summarize it with one word, disappointment, the best way to spoil your fun. Be open mind help a lot enjoying games.

I'm addicted to buying the game guide, moreso because of all the extra background information, development art, tables, maps, etc. I try to look at the quest portion as little as possible, but I have been known to ruin games by leafing through the book when I've had a few.

Zloth gives some really good advice in general up there.

I avoid spoilers like the plague for most games. I want my experience to be as novel as possible especially on games I'm unfamiliar with. Same applies to books, movies, ....

Definitely a hoarder here mostly because of the unknown and that games unfortunately almost encourage it by offering the best armor or weapon if you have obscure items or items only acquirable early in the game.

Regarding saving, I'm total guilty of AST and like it when games do not have quick load or even load. If loads take a long time that helps dissuade use of this technique as well. If I have to exit the game and restart to access load I prefer it as it raises the barrier (unless the game is crappy and actually requires it).

I'm unfortunately a hacker and sometimes it is more fun to hack the game and discover how things work under the hood than actually play the game. For me its more engaging as my brain actually has to work at it unlike many games these days. This can be just simple money hacks or figuring out how to unpack game assets or reverse engineering file formats. (For DA2, it was discovering the filename hashing technique and then actually create a map of the filename hashes in the game data folder. Pointless yes but a challenge never the less)

I do try to limit any hacking/cheating for first play-through but second is almost always compromised in some form. On a first play-through I tend to only do enough to minimize drudgery because I know it can kill the fun faster than anything else. I never enable any sort of god mode though as that has never been fun for me.

* Spoilers: Nope, but I do read up on games later on.
* Powergaming: Yes, I'm definitely a powergamer.
* Save game addicted: If there is a quicksave button, I will save every 5 seconds or some such thing. Especially if the save process is fast. I mainly do it because I hate having to replay certain sections because I forgot to save and then had some random crash..
*Quester: Yep. For some this is related to being a completionist - to me (and you, it seems), it's related to being a powergamer. I hate missing out on gold, experience or other possible rewards.
*Treasure hoarder: Yes, because I've been burned a few times before where I spent my consumables/gold too early. I usually hoard items like crazy now, and usually only actually spend money/potions the second time I replay a game when I know roughly how much is needed near the end.
*Restarting: In the past, I did not do this, but I had a few friends that were crazy about it. I have changed over time though - I was replaying the Baldur's Gate series recently, and ended up creating something like 20 characters without being able to decide which one to play. I did the same for NWN1 and 2 not too long ago as well.

My biggest flaw as a gamer right now is lack of patience. I want something to happen soon rather than late. For example, I can't stand the beginning of NWN2 - what a bore! The rest of the game is great, but the first 8 levels or so are simply painful.

A decade ago, that was simply not a problem for me. I didn't mind spending a whole day just figuring out a game (for example when playing Gothic for the first time).

Good thread.
Hoarding: I have been hoarding since Ultima Underworld - all those lightning scrolls and potions you don't use, even though you are having a tough fight but think "I can get through without". An RPG would not be an RPG unless you had a bottle bank and library in your backpack at the end. Perhaps I should ramp up the difficulty!
And the thing with not selling gems and so forth - because you never know if you might come across an obscure quest where someone *wants* 20 flawless diamonds in return for ubersword. You never know, so just in case ...
Powergaming: Fall prey to this too often and once I start cheesing out lose interest in the game. Why do I do it? I really don't know.

aye fun thread

My problems are hoarding and power gaming. I am trying to move away from power gaming but its not working

I used to read spoilers and stuff before but I have gotten rid of that habit now. yay me! However I read them after i have completed the game!

I'm definitely guilty of hoarding and lovin' to get spoiled. Powergaming, on the other hand, is completely beyond me.

I'm guilty of pretty much everything on the OP's list. I don't view it so much as ruining my game, but they sure do slow me down. Then again, I'm in no particular rush. I've always got another CRPG to play since my list is long... still have to beat Shivering Isles... just as soon as I'm done with M&M8 replay and finish TW2, DA:O... and the list goes on and on...

Something really cool I ve been seeing in some youtube "lets play ..." Is some players willingness to play through adversity. The best example for me is a non rpg one, guys that lose cities in Civilization and get into a losing position and keep on playing win or lose, while seemingly having loads of fun.

Closest RPG anology I can think of probably is getting a character death on ToEE and keep playing without loading a recent save.

Fadista said:

Something really cool I ve been seeing in some youtube "lets play …" Is some players willingness to play through adversity. The best example for me is a non rpg one, guys that lose cities in Civilization and get into a losing position and keep on playing win or lose, while seemingly having loads of fun.

Closest RPG anology I can think of probably is getting a character death on ToEE and keep playing without loading a recent save.

Click to expand...

I did that in BG1, first play, playing sort of real when one character died, not reloading but organizing team, and resurection. But I stopped it when I realized one death involved a definitive 1 cons point lost. Awful video game design point the cons lost.

EDIT: I did that too and quite a lot with Citadel: the Adventure of the Crystal Keep. A dungeon game with a roster. In that game you could split the party, and even left one in Dungeon and setup a rescue team for rescuing a party blocked in dungeons because of a dungeon trap. That's also in that game that if there was a dead you could carry the corpse by using 2 members of the party and bring it back to town for resurrection. You had sort of really carry using two members like if in a game like DAO you walk back with a dead and have two members that really carry the dead.

I wish a day some indie RPG stole many of the good idea of that game.

I cant stand Accountant Gaming (min/maxing, mathifying the ruleset etc) because they get to the point where they think all games should have that and that everyone should be mathifying their game. Its just geeky and boring, and I avoid that like the plague.

But Spoilers are good, but I only use them when I get stuck. Most of this though is a side effect of trying to adapt Harcore Style gaming to casualy RPGs. There are so much gold and items in most RPGs these days hoarding isnt needed but when your stuck in the hardcore mindset of everything being rare and holding on to it all, it ends up messing up your inventory with all the ton of loot you find.