Kostas
Dormant Watcher
So.. is Arcanum all that? I quite like the top parts of the list but it's mostly rated highly only on the Codex and since it has deep Troika roots I have some doubts.
There are no 100% clear-cut answer for the question "What is a CRPG?" but an analysis for recurring CRPG patters in games is perfectly doable in a scientific way.
Game scientists (and even we at the Watch) have proven it already.
Sure, but it's highly subjective what use that is when someone says X game isn't an RPG and someone else says it is.
All you have to do is to describe exactly against what "subjective criteria" you are measuring. If you can get a broader agreement/consensus on the criteria in your group - everything is fine.
If someone doesn't agree with the pattern recognizing criteria you use - fine, too
Definitions/genre categories for men made art like movies, music, games, paintings, … can only be descriptive and are changing over time. There's no law of nature that can be used for categorizing objectively.
If this is so simple, then why are Chien and felipepe having an argument?
felipepepe has nothing against to include games at the fuzzy borderline of the CRPG genre (Strategy, Adventures, Sims, Shooters with some CRPG elements). Chien seems to have a problem with it and wants only 100% full fledged CRPGs. Their personal criteria for the genre CRPGs differs. It's that simple.
I agree with the broader approach of felipepepe.
We discussed this, but sub-categories are always capricious and arbitrary.…then don't rank them. And sort them alphabetically. Or, better yet, split the list apart via either subgenre or publication date. Having M&M next to Alpha Protocol or Dragon Age next to Ultima VII simply makes your entire ranking system a jumbled joke.
I thought the whole point of top games lists was so people could debate the order and post how their order would be different. To generate discussion.
So I don't understand why people have a problem with someone questioning the order.
I was interested in breaking down voting into 3 time periods, but it would be asking random people on the internet to devote more time and energy. At some point you just have to say, we're going to do this flawed but still interesting vote and see what happens.Rank them by their time periods then if you don't wish to set up categories such as scifi and traditional cliche fantasy. Yes, that was partly done (albeit more as a footnote) with "pre and post 1995 games"… but 1995-2014, a 20 year span, is hardly a sensible division.
As it stands, it's a good list, but it's overly long and has you scratching your head more often than not because of its sheer breadth and the issues that ensue.
Someone said we need the list of best RPGs in recent years and that's what I think too.
Or even better, a few lists that number worth playing titles of certain decades.
Not "100% full fledged" RPGs of course.