Larian & the "Very Big RPG that Will Dwarf Them All"

Originally Posted by MAHak
If Swen wants to dwarf them all doesn’t he need to move into MMORPG territory and slay WoW?

Swen's ultimate RPG was Ultima 7 so I wouldn't think he would go massively multiplayer, but you never know.

Man, I hope that mmorpg thing doesn't poison Swen, dont think it will…

I want to experience a customizable adventure, I don't care to write the book. When I was younger, maybe that appealed more.

Originally Posted by rossrjensen
First, did the "very big rpg to dwarf them all" already happen with Original Sin 2? Is Baldur's Gate 3 the studio's endgame?

I too remember the video you refer to and hold out hope that such "RPG to dwarf them all" is still yet to be made.

I enjoyed D:OS 1 and 2 and I'm sure I'll enjoy BG3… but these titles do not make their primary focus on world simulation and exploration & discovery. I'd say the primary focus of D:OS1 & 2 are story and combat and then to a much lesser extent world simulation and exploration & discovery. Just my opinion.

My hope is that the "RPG to dwarf them all" would include the best parts of D:OS 1 and 2 but also greatly ramp up on world simulation and exploration & discovery. Night and day… but not just for the sake of night and day but that night/day impacts game play in meaningful ways. Weather effects also NOT just for the sake of weather but also weather that effects game play in meaningful ways. Next up with be proper NPC schedules. These are just 3 very broad "world simulation" ideas there could and probably should be more.

Exploration & discovery means that the player moves throughout a contiguous world without loading screens and that you move about that world as the story progresses… meaning that you routinely come back to places already visited and those places and their NPCs change meaningfully as the player progresses the story and as their actions impact the world. Now that the latest consoles have much more memory to play with, I'd really like to see an end to "maps and levels" in crpgs like D:OS… where the player moves through the map one time and then leaves it forever… that just kills immersion for me. Caves and "dungeons" should be rumored and talked about by NPCs long before the player ever stumbles upon them… particularly nasty evil places should have their own names as part of the "hype" process to get the player curious about such place. I remember reading about Destard and Hythloth in the manuals that came with Ultima games and getting eerily excited about finding those places with thoughts of "I hope I'm prepared enough when I go in."

My hope that Swen does NOT see his latest games as the "RPG to dwarf them all" lies in that Swen has a few interviews where he has gone into great detail about the road to his current success. He has seen really hard times and rough moments that almost put him out of business… even not having enough money to fill up his car with gas… stuff like that you never forget. My take is that Swen is going to maximize his success by making games that appeal to as a broad an audience more "hardcore" cRPGs can appeal to before perhaps taking a risk to make a much nerdier "RPG to dwarf them all." This of course is just my opinion based on Vlogs Swen has made over the years and the impression they've given me about how his mind may be operating from a business standpoint.

Great topic, thanks for posting it.

Originally Posted by MAHak
If Swen wants to dwarf them all doesn’t he need to move into MMORPG territory and slay WoW?

Interesting that you interpret that statement as being related to money. I sure don't.

Originally Posted by JFarrell71
Interesting that you interpret that statement as being related to money. I sure don't.

I’m more interesting in hear why you think my statement relates to money?

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
I enjoyed D:OS 1 and 2 and I'm sure I'll enjoy BG3… but these titles do not make their primary focus on world simulation and exploration & discovery. I'd say the primary focus of D:OS1 & 2 are story and combat and then to a much lesser extent world simulation and exploration & discovery. Just my opinion.

Assuming the EA is indicative of what the finished product will be like, I think you'll find BG3 more to your liking. While it's not quite a simulated world in the way you describe, the feeling of exploration & discovery is quite strong. I went in with a lot of doubts and was pleasantly surprised.

Originally Posted by MAHak
I’m more interesting in hear why you think my statement relates to money?

In what other way does WOW constitute the biggest and best of anything?

I hope that the rpg to slay them all doesn't have tedious combat that lasts multiple minutes for nearly every single fight. I'd rather have very quick combat and slower exploration, longer dialogues, and more interesting loot. Larian has a lot of loot, but most of it isn't very interesting.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
I hope that the rpg to slay them all doesn't have tedious combat that lasts multiple minutes for nearly every single fight. I'd rather have very quick combat and slower exploration, longer dialogues, and more interesting loot. Larian has a lot of loot, but most of it isn't very interesting.

Modern Larain is all about Turn-based combat. Can you believe I read a recent article were the journalist claimed no modern gamer has played their past games.

1. Divine Divinity
2. Beyond Divinity
3. Divinity II: The Dragon Knight Saga
4. Divinity: Dragon Commander

He went on to harp all the past games were garbage, and OS 1 &2 are the greatest RPGs ever made this decade. I just rolled my eyes and said whatever millennial.

Originally Posted by HiddenX
I think the Gothic, Risen and ELEX games from Piranha Bytes have learned a lot from the Ultima series.

Funny you mention Risen… just finished a replay of Risen and throughout my replay I kept thinking that this game feels so much like what a contemporary Ultima would feel like… from game play to the visuals and art direction.

I started a new game of Elex and I am currently enjoying it though I'm still very much at the start of the game. I made a go of Elex a few years back, put in about 60 hours and then stopped… I'm not sure why. Regardless, I'm enjoying the game play despite that the fantasy/sci-fi mix is not my favorite.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer

My hope is that the "RPG to dwarf them all" would include the best parts of D:OS 1 and 2 but also greatly ramp up on world simulation and exploration & discovery. Night and day… but not just for the sake of night and day but that night/day impacts game play in meaningful ways. Weather effects also NOT just for the sake of weather but also weather that effects game play in meaningful ways. Next up with be proper NPC schedules. These are just 3 very broad "world simulation" ideas there could and probably should be more.

Some really great ideas here. Just to add my 2 cents, how cool would it be that when a storm cloud approaches you can summon a lightning bolt onto your enemies. Or have high wind turned into a tornado.

From what I remind Gothic 2 (Gold) has more scheduling and more complex scheduling than Ultima VII, if not then it's not far.

I don't remind that U7 was impressive for outdoor areas, on no aspect, filling level, exploration quality, events. This multi scale approach of U7 helps a lot focus more on important locations as cities and dungeons, but I don't see a modern RPG using such blueprint. For outdoor scale with a similar approach (but with 4 scales instead of 2) I had more thrill from Avernum first remake, but ok all of that is far in past and I forgot a lot of U7.

I think a lot of depth of U7 just couldn't work as well nowadays. Many tricks are just too hidden, interactivity with items is like a quadrature of the circle, 1 interaction will work for 1000 more logical that won't work, this sort of design can only appeal a minority of contemporary players I believe.