Planescape: Torment - Countdown to EE?

purpleblob said:

Well, it becomes increasingly difficult to find original version if Beamdog treats PS:T like BGs and IWD1. Good thing is, GoG offers both original and EEs in one package. Praise GoG!!!

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Beamdog gives DRM-free copies of the originals with the EE versions now, I think. And praise GOG, indeed. I feel that they helped bring these RPGs back into the light a bit by offering the originals in the first place.

Also, as long as the original content is still the same, maybe with some bug fixes, then adding content onto that is fine. Really, it's more than fine, it's great, because people who either played the heck out of the originals or just want to check out new content in a classic CRPG have the option to do so. Since the content isn't really mandatory to explore, it's just an added bonus for anyone who does want to explore it. But I do agree that the original content that is there should not really be altered. That is the best way to do an EE, IMO.

Also, if you love the originals, why not check out the new characters Beamdog added and what not? You may like them, or you may not, but it's still new content in an old game. Not only are they revamping nearly 20 year old CRPGs, they are adding similar-style content in the same engine as the originals. And who releases an expansion for a CRPG that is almost 20 years old? I think what they are doing is pretty amazing, TBH.

swapoer said:

Why all the hate?

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Cause democracy, bro.

Fluent said:

BoboTheMighty said:

Better to recreate them in more modern engine, third person perspective similar to DA: O.

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Oh God, no. Anything but this.

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The strengths of PsT lie in its narrative and its game world. That includes visuals. Exploring the cage and its unique architecture in a realistic 3d open world without loading screens could be quite impressive. Since the dialog and quests are already written, it wouldn't result in less money for the writing department.

Fluent said:

Beamdog gives DRM-free copies of the originals with the EE versions now, I think. And praise GOG, indeed. I feel that they helped bring these RPGs back into the light a bit by offering the originals in the first place.

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Beamdog doesn't give free copies. GOG stopped to sell the originals separately. I'd say it was a business decision by Hasbro/WotC, because by combining it with EEs you can now demand 19 €/20 $ instead of 10 €/$ for the original version like before. So even if you don't wish to play the EE you have to pay the price for the EE. I don't see this as a present but a simple price increase for people who don't want EEs. They also stopped cannibalizing their enhanced version sales by a cheaper old release. The marketing argument is you get an improved offer, two games for one price. But EE fans are the only ones who profit from this move. In the end it's a pseudo benefit, because most people have a clear preference. Most EE players won't even care to install the original version and vice versa.

Fluent said:

Also, as long as the original content is still the same, maybe with some bug fixes, then adding content onto that is fine. Really, it's more than fine, it's great, because people who either played the heck out of the originals or just want to check out new content in a classic CRPG have the option to do so. Since the content isn't really mandatory to explore, it's just an added bonus for anyone who does want to explore it. But I do agree that the original content that is there should not really be altered. That is the best way to do an EE, IMO.

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Sometimes it's better to prevent people from touching an opus again. The best example is Star Wars. And in our case it wouldn't even be the original creators.

Nah, I completely disagree with that last bit. Let them touch things all they want. The originals are still there and aren't going anywhere. If you want to watch the original Star Wars, you can.

And a $10 increase to include both the original and the EE doesn't seem like a terrible thing to me. They are obviously trying to promote the EEs and make people buy them. That's fine as they believe that is the superior experience going forward and will be the standard game version once more and people move to the EE from the originals. It happens with other reboots and remakes, too.

And a strength of Infinity Engine games to me is the engine itself and the isometric looks. A 3D Planescape, Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale that looks like Dragon Age or Witcher 3 just would not appeal much to me. It would be likely that the RTWP combat control would suffer as well as was reported with Dragon Age: Inquisition, and anytime you increase the graphics in that way you are investing in them much more. In turn you are targeting a different market, knowing that those that like 3D graphics will be interested in the game. Thus other aspects of the game would likely be altered as well.

I am, however, in favor of just an HD texture upgrade as well as high resolution support. Playing in 3840x2160 with 4K textures and what not would be amazing. But I hope they keep the art style the same and keep it isometric.

Not really a fan of PS:T, so for it's meh. I'd rather see IWD2 EE, followed by a new game using D&D v3.5.

Fluent said:

Nah, I completely disagree with that last bit. Let them touch things all they want. The originals are still there and aren't going anywhere. If you want to watch the original Star Wars, you can.

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Actually, unless something has changed since I last looked, you can't, outside of buying an old copy off eBay in standard definition. If you want a new copy of the original Star Wars, you're out of luck, as Lucas apparently lost his mind and refused to sell anything but his crappy "enhanced" version. I know people were hoping Disney, the new owners, would release the original film in HD, but I don't think that has happened yet.

Only PST redoing I would accept is one that would replace ingame 3d models with something of this quality:

Given what happened to the original Baldurs Gates and Icewind Dale you had better get your gog copy soon, before you are forced to buy the EE to get it at a higher price.

Silver said:

Given what happened to the original Baldurs Gates and Icewind Dale you had better get your gog copy soon, before you are forced to buy the EE to get it at a higher price.

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BG1EE and IWD1EE actually got us something valuable, BG2EE is a cash grab with nothing of worth added and PSTEE is even more pointless to EE by just adding free mods in.

Silver said:

Given what happened to the original Baldurs Gates and Icewind Dale you had better get your gog copy soon, before you are forced to buy the EE to get it at a higher price.

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There are people who don't have at least one copy of the originals?

BoboTheMighty said:

Don't see the point here…outside of UI, IE games have aged fairly well. Smaller font can be an issue, but that's more a matter of old age, grim reaper approaching and troubles of poor eyesight ( for some!).
Better to recreate them in more modern engine, third person perspective similar to DA: O.

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I think there was a project to recreate IWD1 in the NWN2 engine, but I'm not sure if it's complete or not, haven't checked on it in a year or two.

Fluent said:

There are people who don't have at least one copy of the originals?

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People who are younger than us and or people who just played other games. Most certainly there are plenty of people who will now never play the original versions of these games going forward.

Silver said:

People who are younger than us and or people who just played other games. Most certainly there are plenty of people who will now never play the original versions of these games going forward.

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Well what they would be gaining by playing the original instead of the EE now? The remake has 100% of the original content plus some new content. In 10-20 years there will probably be some new Ultra Enhanced Edition that makes the EEs we know now obsolete. Same thing happens with other remakes and reboots. For example, I don't think you can still buy the original Final Fantasy 6 which was released on the SNES, you have to buy the modern port. Going forward people will still be able to download a torrent or "emulate" the older games if they really want. They just aren't going to be officially promoted or supported.

Archangel said:

...
And I bet for PSTEE we are not getting higher res art although I bet they can get original art assets for that game.

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Why?

Just asking, not arguing.

Archangel said:

BG1EE and IWD1EE actually got us something valuable, BG2EE is a cash grab with nothing of worth added and PSTEE is even more pointless to EE by just adding free mods in.

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We don't even know anything about PS:T EE at this point. Besides that, there's certainly no mod that allows you to zoom in/out at will. I'd buy an EE version for that alone.

pibbur who said:

Why?

Just asking, not arguing.

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Why what?

JDR13 said:

We don't even know anything about PS:T EE at this point. Besides that, there's certainly no mod that allows you to zoom in/out at will. I'd buy an EE version for that alone.

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If you are so easily removed from your money, you are the perfect fit into that old saying about fools and their money.

Fluent said:

Well what they would be gaining by playing the original instead of the EE now? The remake has 100% of the original content plus some new content. In 10-20 years there will probably be some new Ultra Enhanced Edition that makes the EEs we know now obsolete. Same thing happens with other remakes and reboots. For example, I don't think you can still buy the original Final Fantasy 6 which was released on the SNES, you have to buy the modern port. Going forward people will still be able to download a torrent or "emulate" the older games if they really want. They just aren't going to be officially promoted or supported.

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Those gamers will not be able to play the game and experience it as it was originally intended. That has been an issue with a lot of remasters with some Final Fantasy games having 'enhanced' sprites that look terrible over their original backgrounds. The original vision and cohesiveness of these games is being lost to revisionism.

Archangel said:

Blizzard recently announced Starcraft Remaster. They are adding HD graphics and making it work on modern windows while not touching original gameplay at all. This is how BGEE should have been done.
But they lost access to original art and then done different shit to make up for it.
And I bet for PSTEE we are not getting higher res art although I bet they can get original art assets for that game.

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I wouldn't mind seeing full modern shiny make overs of some of the classics at all. Keep the game the same, just make it look pretty and 3D - yes am thinking something akin to NWN/DAO. For me one of the things I enjoy in gaming is exploring fantastic/impressive environments, the more engaging the better. Adds a great deal to the immersion.