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Default Opinion - Games with the Nemesis System

January 15th, 2018, 11:48
The PCGamer staff share their opinion on how the nemesis system could be used to expand the gameplay possibilities for different series.

[…]

James Davenport: Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag

Because I'm an idiot and chief of all Moby Dick fan-fiction, I'm thinking a whaling sim set in the Dick Universe that uses something like Black Flag's sailing tech would be a fin-tastic use case for the nemesis system. First, you spec out your mad captain, pinning down their particular fears and origins, from which Nemesis Whalesô will be generated to harass them during the workday. I have no idea what you'll do between whaling ventures, but in combat scenarios, I imagine something like Shadow of the Colossus encounters, but with a Mass Effect party system in which you can stop time and switch characters to queue up specific attacks. Queequeg might be in a smaller boat circling the big bugger with handheld harpoons, while the Ahab archetype stands behind the wheel and issues dodging or ramming commands for the Pequod.

Whales will resemble the colossi in that they'll come in all species and sizesóeverything from porpoise to those big blue ones I've come to fearóand they'll require unique tactics to take down. Also, the name generation system will combine short adjectives indicating size with simple nouns. Tremble in fear, for Great Forearm swimmeth.

Jarred Walton: Fallout

The Nemesis System is such a great tool, and it generates some awesome stories, so it's difficult to imagine a game where it wouldn't improve it in some fashion. Imagine dropping it into just about any true RPG world and the results would be glorious. Fallout with Nemesis could end up with battles against raiders that actually mean more than yet another generic shootout. You go into a city where the raiders have been happily picking off passersby for years, wipe them out, and discover one of them lived and now holds a grudge against you and your settlements. Or what if one of the thousands of ants, radscorpions, or bloatflies was to come back with his friends? Even better, a deathclaw nemesis that comes back stronger and uglier each time you defeat it would be terrifying! Please, Bethesda, make it happen.

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January 15th, 2018, 11:51
While the idea of enemies remembering you is cool, I will never understand the popularity of the Nemesis system.

It's incredibly simplistic and needs to be expanded ten-fold before it will represent anything other than a cute gimmick.

But I guess everything needs a modest beginning.

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January 15th, 2018, 15:52
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post

But I guess everything needs a modest beginning.
Indeed, when do you start?
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January 15th, 2018, 17:25
I'm guessing a never ending sandbox grind like the Fallout games could benefit from a few cute gimmicks, but I'm only guessing since I don't play them.
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January 15th, 2018, 19:12
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
While the idea of enemies remembering you is cool, I will never understand the popularity of the Nemesis system.

It's incredibly simplistic and needs to be expanded ten-fold before it will represent anything other than a cute gimmick.

But I guess everything needs a modest beginning.
For me itís the hopeful potential of the system. Also even in its current state thereís nothing else out there like it.

I had quite a bit of fun with it in SOM havenít played SOW yet. It does get repetitive though and they need to really amp up the difficulty of your nemesis. Being able to easily dispatch of them greatly reduces thier impact.

I did have 1 that was very hard to kill because he would call so many enemies to help him that I had to retreat. It made for a fun game within the game. Hunting him down and trying to kill him. That seemed to be the exception though, unfortunately.
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January 15th, 2018, 19:57
I've never heard about Nemesis System.

If it was good, I guess I'd probably hear about it. But hey, it's PC Gamer. Pusher of nonexisting wording.
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January 15th, 2018, 21:10
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur View Post
Indeed, when do you start?
That was pretty funny for a first post.
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January 16th, 2018, 09:41
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
For me itís the hopeful potential of the system. Also even in its current state thereís nothing else out there like it.

I had quite a bit of fun with it in SOM havenít played SOW yet. It does get repetitive though and they need to really amp up the difficulty of your nemesis. Being able to easily dispatch of them greatly reduces thier impact.

I did have 1 that was very hard to kill because he would call so many enemies to help him that I had to retreat. It made for a fun game within the game. Hunting him down and trying to kill him. That seemed to be the exception though, unfortunately.
Yeah, the system has plenty of potential - I agree.

I just don't think they did much at all with that potential. I suspect the reason most people like it, is that they have an easier way to "imagine" a personality and a little backstory when an enemy comes back.

But it's not really the game that provides it - it just lays the very basic groundwork.

Which is neat and all - but I think the games using it are shallow as can be, and it's a very limited gimmick giving them way more attention than they deserve.

It probably doesn't help that I love Tolkien and dislike what they did with his lore.

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January 16th, 2018, 10:12
Is there a summary of the Nemesis system's mechanics?
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January 16th, 2018, 12:34
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Being able to easily dispatch of them greatly reduces thier impact.
One point in the loot crate as a gambling disease to abuse kids is that players need loot crates to overcome the difficulty.
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January 17th, 2018, 01:13
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
Yeah, the system has plenty of potential - I agree.

I just don't think they did much at all with that potential. I suspect the reason most people like it, is that they have an easier way to "imagine" a personality and a little backstory when an enemy comes back.

But it's not really the game that provides it - it just lays the very basic groundwork.

Which is neat and all - but I think the games using it are shallow as can be, and it's a very limited gimmick giving them way more attention than they deserve.

It probably doesn't help that I love Tolkien and dislike what they did with his lore.

Well fortunately for me Iím pretty ignorant when it comes to Tolkien lore. They could put pink ponies in it and I would know the difference.

I have to agree with you to this point theyíve use it more as a marketing gimmick than some to push the envelope and innovate.

I see the vision though, factions with hierarchies that evolve and change dynamically rather than the player always having to initiate and dictate it. Entire worlds built on this ai dynamically changing without being scripted would be very cool and go a long ways to making the world feel alive and not player dependent.

But again in its current hands it will probably be more of a marketing gimmick to make money than a game changing feature.

Iíll play the games and enjoy them for what they are but at the same time lament the wasted potential.
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