Skyrim - Now Supports Paid Mods

I just found a funny joke about this, and I bet its in the planning stages already.

Next up, Greenlight for Mods. "I've got this great idea for new particle effects, I just need your support!"

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Aditya said:

Also, using donations, the mod creators (rightfully) get the full share. But with Valve's model, from what I understand, the mod creators will be getting only 25% of the share. Rest amount goes to Valve and the developer. So basically, you are expected to keep on paying for the game. That's just ridiculous.

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Not just ridiculous. That's blatant cash grab, nothing less. If modders will really get only 25%, its just impudent attempt to freeload on modders. Pls, joxer - you use word "scam" well in other cases - come here and call this thing like it deserves. Valve and Bethesda are going to use the quality of some exceptional mods as irresistible bait for players to pay. If those numbers would be different like 75% for modders then I would say its pretty much fair trade and it could have some positives like Fluent said. But NOT this. I hope that good modders will see this cheap cash grab and refuse to take part in it. And I hope that it will backfire and harm Valve.

Another big problem is that some ppl will try to use stuff from good free mods for their own paid mods. How will Valve resolve these problems? Fans will pay one modder while in fact big part of his mod (or whole mod) will be created by other ppl. Or is Valve and Bethesda so naive and stupid that they didnt think about it?

If this generates better mods, I'm all for it. You just might get a talented developer or two to make some mods. We've had a few kickstarters fail that looked/sounded pretty good. Maybe some of them build a mod for Skyrim as a proof of concept for their game. Having something tangible to play for your audience might convince them to back your project.

I'd pay for Vilja, Requiem, Frostfall, Falskaar, Helgen Rebuilt and many others. Not a lot, but I'd pay a couple bucks for each. I'm tenatively for this.

Charlemagne3.0 said:

What about game breaking mods? Lets face it, a large number of people who use the workshop are.. less than sophisticated when it comes to technology. Dirty mods, save game bloat, etc. speaking of which, what about scripted mods? Will they be allowed?

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And this is why the refund policy also won't exactly protect the interest of customers, at least in case of Skyrim mods, where one mod could potentially introduce problems in other mods or break the game altogether down the line. This might not be detected / visible in the initial 24 hours where refund can be claimed, and the customer would be under the impression that the mod worked flawlessly, only to realise after a week that due to some buggy scripting introduced by the mod, he can't complete a certain main story quest and hence cannot proceed ahead in the game. He then won't have any means to get the refund. He will be at the mercy of mod creator to patch the mod, if and when.

In the end, I see just too many problems with this model and they easily outweigh a couple of positives (which are mainly in favour of mod creators, and not of players).

Luckra said:

I guess we all expect a Fallout 4 announcement embracing fully User Generated Content at the Bethesda conference in June…

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Exactly this! They simply want to make money off the back of modders.

I am not saying this is completely a bad thing since some modders deserves some cash for their works but in the long run I am not sure this is a good think for modding in general.

The approach doesn't seem all that different from the Unity assets store. I'm sure we'll see a mix of free and charged mods, with the former serving as a platform to the latter. There will surely be some trial versions as well to entice people. I think the market will work itself out.

I'm mixed/negative on this one. I would agree that some of the more ambitious mods like Skywind would be worthy of charging. On the other hand (to paraphrase some comments I made on PCGamer):

1) What about mods that are dependent on other mods, like SKSE? In some cases, you might need to buy multiple mods to get the one you want to work, and if the owners of those lynchpin mods decide to charge a premium, the mod you want may get much more expensive.

2) Legal issues when one mod piggybacks off of another and the latter gets the money.

3) You are essentially turning mods into DLC, and we know how people gripe about EA and other companies charging $3 for a tinted article of clothing.

4) What happens when if the mod breaks with a patch? or multiple mod incompatibilities? Or any number of bugs that commonly occur with mods, especially when a lot are installed. You have a 24 hour window to refund, but what after that?

Like I said, there are some very talented modders that deserve to be paid. But I fear that this will also open a can of worms as well, that could completely change the modding scene as we know it.

This is going to end badly for all involved parties.
Except for the scammers - they always win.

Aditya said:

I wholeheartedly condemn this move by Valve. It is nothing but a cash grab attempt from Valve and Bethesda, in the garb of "helping the modders". If at all they wanted to help, simply adding a donation option would have sufficed.

Making mods payable essentially divides the player base into those who are rich (and hence have access to paid premium mods) and those who can't afford to pay / not willing to pay and would have to settle on "free" mods, which in all probability would not match the quality of the paid ones (just see any App store). Down the line, more than 90% of the modders would expect players to pay some basic amount for their mods. Who can resist the free money?? Another point is, since most modders develop mods as their hobby / interest, and hence for creative satisfaction, why try to monetize that?

Modding has always been one of the strongest points in favor of PC gaming, compared to consoles. If Valve is planning to add more games for paid mod option, then this changes the entire scenario for PC gaming, and not for good. I am hoping the overwhelming negative reaction from the PC community will force Valve to reconsider their decision, or at least alter it sensibly.

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You nailed it. This is just more of the ridiculous, money grubbing, and greedy "micro-transactions" game model, and this kind of stuff will eventually kill PC gaming altogether, if it isn't stopped in its tracks.

Horrible move.

Just one more reason (as if I needed another) not to bother with the Workshop. I genuinely support a 'Donate' button - but to divide modding up like only hurts the community as a whole.

And, yes, scammers finally have a 'legit' way to make some quick cash as they rebrand Nexus content as their own.

Horrible.

Total Biscuit the Cynical Brit released a video with more details.

Most importantly, modders mod because they have a love and a passion for the project, and that's the only reason. By adding a money incentive you open the gates to the scumbags who are cynically just doing it for the cash, which is a completely different community which will eat and destroy the original modders (though I've no doubt a few will benefit before the collapse).

I view this move in a dim light also. It's basically monetization/micro transactions and if those are the sort of splits it really is a grubby corporate douche bag cash grab.

Teams often already have enough trouble staying together, now they get to argue about money too. Yay.

There's no QA.

I can see people getting their content ripped off. More tears and content getting pulled. I may as well just head over to Nexus, leech the site and upload to Steam. There's no policing of this thing on steam that I've noticed, is there?

Modding scene is what keeps these games going long past their prime. Look at MW and NWN as examples. Having users pony up to try a mod would stifle this - who's wants to pay to test out all those small mods.

I can see much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the forums when a mod breaks something or doesn't live up to the sell.

As others have stated this sort of thing just rubs gamers the wrong way and will curb the longevity of titles IMO.

-kaos

Charging for unsupported products based on somebody else work... what could possible go wrong?

It looks like Steam has found another way to rip off customers... no refund... early access... greenlight... 'free-to-play' games... DLCs.... and now, of course, paid mods, which, at the very least, will just create a fracture in the community itself.

We already have one example of someone exploiting another's work for profit:

Skyrim: iNeed
Based on Schlangster's original scripting for Fallout's FWE/Project Nevada. With their track record, I doubt Valve's jack shit level of customer service will deal with things of this nature.

I'm against this as well. No doubt some modders deserve to get paid for their work. That's what donations are for. This way they get 100% of it, as others already mentioned. And the other risks (Steam not able/willing to police itself effectively) far outweigh what benefits to modders there may be from this.

I have 250 non paid mods installed right now...and a lot of them are fantastic...but I wouldn't have this many if they were not free...

I followed the S.T.E.P. guide to really buff up my skyrim...

Well, that didn't take long. Chesko, or whatever, who has a popular follower mod on the Nexus, has made the apparently long promised update as a monetized workshop exclusive. He claims it'll be a "timed" release.

I downloaded the original mod, and quickly dumped it as it wasn't to my taste, but plenty of people have been supporting it for quite some time.

It gets better. I actually came across an early access paid mod. I wish I were kidding. It's an unfinished female only dress mod or some such. Two pieces released now, the rest.. whenever.

Honestly, were it not for mods, I'd never buy a Bethesda game. They do world building like no other, but their writing is middle school level at best. their quality control? Were it not for unofficial patches, none of their games would be playable. I also hate their armor/weapon designs. Never used them in any of their games. Their character designs aren't great either.

To sum up, they want me to buy a $60 game, console first "time locked" dlc, and now mods? I no longer buy EA games for various reasons, Bethesda is not immune from the same. They've already pissed me off with their timed console exclusives, now this. For the record, I didn't buy Skyrim until all dlc were released for the PC

Who's willing to bet that this is just a prelude to selling mods to console gamers? Console exclusives, or timed exclusives. It's the obvious next step. Look at what they did with ESO.

Not like Bethesda hasn't stolen ideas from modders before. Every "innovation" in their releases were introduced by modders in their previous game. Unlike Obsidian who openly stated they were inspired by previous Fallout 3 mods, Bethesda has always refused to admit it. Guess they figured it was time to just buy them off. Or at least make money off of them. I feel sick.

I have nothing against paid mods. Through donations or something, doesn't matter, someone worked there.

But Valve taking seventy five percent? That is rediculous.
Imagine your country charging you 75% VAT, would you really accept that without a single word? Are we rolling back into slavery?

I refuse to support that thing coming from a greedy company.
Shame on you Valve!

I do not like this one bit. It is bad for the next generation Bethesda games as this sets precedent.

For Skyrim, I wrote 2 tools TESVSnip, an early ESM/ESP editor (based on other tools) and the initial tools that enabled custom animations via havok. For Oblivion I wrote the 3dsmax exporter and contributed and maintained nifskope and niflib.

The teams I worked with and I would never charge for these even if we could because we never had time for QA or proper support and I'm sure I couldn't make a day job out of it. For us backend tool guys, this is a bit of a shaft in that I'm certain there is no way to monetize this work really the way that a final product mod can via steam. There is also no way to protect modelers content or other work.

Anyway, the reason I did that work was to encourage more free content and pay my dues back to the community. I would like more of the same and less monetization as its better for everyone involved at least in the modding community.

Like the Sims, I'm sure there will be a ton of free content in the next games if not most of it but now there is going to be less content and less knowledge sharing and lots more finger pointing. The only good thing that might happen is that quality will improve because of the obligation to support for sold content.