Bethesda Softworks - Creation Club @ PC Gamer

This article is about modding and I was saying than Bethesda is trying to put its dirty paws on a thriving community who has provided countless hours of enjoyment from a game which was very bland as all their games are since 10 years.

Aerth said:

This article is about modding and I was saying than Bethesda is trying to put its dirty paws on a thriving community who has provided countless hours of enjoyment from a game which was very bland as all their games are since 10 years.

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Thanks for the reminder

Yes, it's clear that you don't recognise the reality of how big a part of your enjoyment is directly because of the work done by Bethsoft.

Some people would rather ignore that kind of detail - so they can go on being irrationally biased against a bunch of people they don't know.

I am just saying than their game was bland and was better when changed. I am not attacking people as persons.

Are you for real? You are like an Internet Justice Warrior: "Do not criticize games please, that hurts me so deep! Real people worked so Hard!!!!" What the fuck..

Ignore list.

Yes, let's backtrack and pretend we didn't say what we just said in black and white, because that will convince myself that I'm not actually unfair

@Aerth, IMO, you're filling ignorelist for the wrong reason here. Not saying you got the wrong person.

btw I strongly agree with you about Bethesda in this case. If there weren't mods (specifically norespawn one), I'd never ever be able to force myself to finish Skyrim nor FO4. Instead of doing such design or at least an ingame toggle option in the game by themselves, now they're trying to rip off people wether those are players or mod creators. Waht you forgot to add, after officially leaving Skyrim in utterly broken state the money they earned (with a huge thanks to modders) they poured on yet another WoWkillerwannabe MMO.

I had to look for it during a long time, never used it before. And I do not plan to use it again. I can have an argument, a heated one too. But, defending every game done by EA, Bethesda on the ground than people worked hard or for the sake or getting the opposite argument just kill any debate for me. And he does it on every thread.

I have played Bethesda games since the first Elder Scroll and the console turn seen in Skyrim, the lazy design of Fallout III and the fact than you have to download Gb of mods or wait for Las Vegas to enjoy their games killed that for me.
I truly regret that because I loved the TES setting and it is not even their second attempt to put a rein on the community who makes their games enjoyable.

NewDArt said:

Thanks for the reminder

Yes, it's clear that you don't recognise the reality of how big a part of your enjoyment is directly because of the work done by Bethsoft.

Some people would rather ignore that kind of detail - so they can go on being irrationally biased against a bunch of people they don't know.

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Indeed. But you don't recognize the reality that Beth never really acknowledged or appreciated how big a part of our enjoyment is directly because of the work done by moders

Aerth said:

the ground than people worked hard

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That's something I never understood either.

Here's an example on me ofc. I can't stand certain people that get abnormally boring and annoying when they get drunk. Either I leave or shut them down so they feel bad (thanks to my odd memory where I remember strategic info that's basically irrelevant but can't remember stuff that's important).
Ergo, I can't work as a bartender. I mean, I would work hard, but a bartender needs to be a listener and thus I can't do a good job. If I worked that job, I'd suck and my product, a service in this case, would suck too.
Now imagine I work only on drinks and some anonymous guy comes every now and then, talks to everyone and keeps all those annoying customers occupied and happy. What should I do? Charge both him and customers extra? Or kiss his arse as he's boosting my business? Hell, honestly, I'd give them a job.

Back to games development. Some people in industry simply can't make a proper product. Yes they worked hard, but cmon, everyone works hard. Their game still sucks.
I say give modders a job already and stop trying to parasite on their work that already brought you more $ than should have.

NewDArt said:

Aerth said:

All the rest of my game time was provided by the modding community. Let's not talk about Fallout III and IV.

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Suuuure, the modders did all the work here. Bethsoft didn't develop the engine work, assets, systems, animations, sound, music and so on

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He is right, of course. Their products literally depend on mods to be even remotely enjoyable.

Bethesda's games feature some of the worst code in the industry. It's not that their programmers are bad, strictly speaking, just that they are given crazy deadlines. Some games like Skyrim are so hopelessly crippled, that it will never be possible to fix shadows and z-flicker without rewriting the entire game from scratch.

But it's not like I expected d'Art to be well informed prior to spouting consumerist rubbish like a good, obedient sheeple.

Don't trust bethesda, there's an end game here, where free and independent modding loses.

Thing is Joxer, you've been stating your opinions as fact for so long, I think you might have actually convinced yourself.

I've played the Bethesda games you label as 'broken', without mods, hundreds and hundreds of hours. No problem for me.

On the other hand, there are games that do give problems on my system, like ME:A, that you claim have no problems.

As to the bigger question of paid mods for Bethesda games, I have the same mixed feelings as many. I'd prefer all mods remain free, but part of me says modders ought to be able to get paid in some cases. Bottom line, it is possible that Bethesda might implement this in a bad and abusive way; but it's also possible they'll implement it in a fair way.

At any rate, to me this is much less objectionable than game companies slapping performance-destructive denuvo on games that I pay for. That's for sure.

Regards.

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What are you talking about.
Dragons never flew backwards in your game?

I needed no convincing myself when I got stuck with a gamebreaking bug during main quest (stuck door issue) with the completely patched game and final official patch - and the only way to get past it was thanks to modders. No I didn't use any of their bugfixing mods, but read their log what they did so I did it too (unpack a certain file).
Maybe I should have used those patching mods as I never managed to get rid of stupidly heavy actual elder scrolls from my inventory, but then again I just decided to forget looting only to remember the game being utterly broken.

When did I say ME4 has no problems? Man, I warned people here not to use displacing skills like biotic throw because those can cause gamestoppers, I wrote in my "minireview" autosaves tend to get corrupt and I also informed the community here that SOS quest got so broken in the last patch it causes a gamestopper bug.
Feel free to breeze through EA Answers ME4 section about some problem you stumble upon - don't be surprised to see my report on it, some additional note if someone else reported it, sometimes I've also added a workaround.

I'm ME series #1 fan, I am, but I'm not Homer's blind audience. If something is broken (or boring, annoying, idiotic, retarded or something else) I won't do what Beth fans do, outright lie to everyone that there is nothing broken or wrong with the game.
Except Skyrim's modding tools and music, everything else is broken in there. What's broken even more than the game is their postrelease support that produced pisspoor patches.

Bethesda will have to withdraw permission of free mods and clamp down on free mod sites on the internet for this to really work. They are afraid to do that, because it would be a public relations nightmare. The mods that are being talked about as being featured so far are cosmetic mods. It will be very easy for skilled modders to offer most of these type of mods for free, just to fuck with Bethesda and this new mod "creation club". Another way to deal with this would be to set up a mod site where similar mods are offered for half price or a deeply discounted price that Bethesda charges, as opportunistic modders decide to undercut Bethesda. I hope modders do either one or both of these things.

Bethesda is being very greedy and I don't care if the top level executives want more vacation homes and mansions, and get pissed off to see all these free mods floating around that to them represents lost profit. If Bethesda can't make it as a game developer and be profitable without free mods then they should go out of business. I hardly think this is the case though, we all know Bethesda sells a ton of Skyrim and other games, which is why I think this is all about pure greed.

Just leaving this here as well...

Skyrim VR for PS4 is $60!

No dragons fly backwards in my no-mods Skyrim. Maybe you've got your monitor turned upside down or something?

Perhaps there were bugs on a day 1 release on Skyrim before any Bethesda patches. Don't know; but the Bethesda-patched Skyrim with no mods works fine for me and has worked fine for me for a long time.

As to ME4, guess we agree about technical problems (probably caused by, or exacerbated by, denuvo).

Bottom line on all of these problems is when game companies implement stuff that hurts their customers (gamers), it inevitably comes back to harm the game company even worse. Which is to say that paid mods could end up costing Bethesda a cool fortune, Catch a fire you're gonna get burned.

Regards

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RPGFool said:

No dragons fly backwards in my no-mods Skyrim. Maybe you've got your monitor turned upside down or something?

Perhaps there were bugs on a day 1 release on Skyrim before any Bethesda patches. Don't know; but the Bethesda-patched Skyrim with no mods works fine for me and has worked fine for me for a long time.

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Were you drugged up to your eyeballs or have fandom affected your brain? Skyrim was a mess and, on day 1, it was a horrible mess. Sure, if you took your time playing, the worst of the bugs were eventually patched out BY THE COMMUNITY but to say that you had smooth sailing is an alt-truth!

RPGFool said:

No dragons fly backwards in my no-mods Skyrim. Maybe you've got your monitor turned upside down or something?

Perhaps there were bugs on a day 1 release on Skyrim before any Bethesda patches. Don't know; but the Bethesda-patched Skyrim with no mods works fine for me and has worked fine for me for a long time.

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Were you drugged up to your eyeballs or have fandom affected your brain? Skyrim was a mess for a long time and, on day 1, it was a horrible mess. Sure, if you took your time playing, the worst of the bugs were eventually patched out BY THE COMMUNITY but to say that you had smooth playing experience is an alt-truth pure and simple!

@zahratustra

I'm sufficiently sober not to do double posts.

Seriously, my no mods Skyrim has no backwards-flying dragons (even if, as I previously acknowledged, that might have happened with unpatched day 1 version of game). Day 1 games have numerous problems across numerous companies and releases -- nothing new or unique to Bethesda in that.

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NewDArt said:

Greed doesn't have to be a bad thing, but just don't call it need.

Need implies they can't profit in other ways and survive as a company without monetizing mods, which is obviously a completely stupid suggestion.

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Well you're putting words in my mouth: I never said "greed". The requirement to stay in the black is just a fact of business economics. That thinking pervades successful companies.

tomasp3n said:

While I do agree with most of you, it would be interesting to see how many people actually mod their games. The people on this forum hardly represent the average gamer. My guess is that a really small percentage of the buyers use mods, so to say Bethesda is [dependent] on the mod community is hardly accurate?

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Yep. Compared to some of this community, I only do light modding of games. (I have done mod creation myself, but that's mainly for personal satisfaction.) For me, modding a game is mostly about fixing a few visual things that need improvement. But I've never bought a game based on the mods -- those additions are just icing on the cake. I have doubts that a large number of others have bought a game on the basis of mods either, and I'm pretty skeptical that it is modding that is keeping Bethesda afloat.