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September 11th, 2021, 01:11
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Talking about the camp, a random comment: I really like the voice of queen Galfrey in her context, I find it to be spot on.
I like her character as a character, just like Darien, Camilla, and Wen. However, I do not like her as a person in the game. I did at first until a certain chapter and a certain interaction my character had with her. I am eager to see what happens next, no spoilers, when I get to finishing the game.

Right now I have one person at the war camp preparing for Drezen (Lobo), and two other characters at the tavern helping out.

Also the patch reset of difficulty may explain why my party seemed to be having such an easier time fighting in the city today … I thought it was because I was playing well but now I suspect the difficulty was set back to normal which compared to what I play on is much easier.

Will check next time I get into the game.
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September 11th, 2021, 01:24
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
I like her character as a character, just like Darien, Camilla, and Wen. However, I do not like her as a person in the game. I did at first until a certain chapter and a certain interaction my character had with her. I am eager to see what happens next, no spoilers, when I get to finishing the game.

Right now I have one person at the war camp preparing for Drezen (Lobo), and two other characters at the tavern helping out.

Also the patch reset of difficulty may explain why my party seemed to be having such an easier time fighting in the city today … I thought it was because I was playing well but now I suspect the difficulty was set back to normal which compared to what I play on is much easier.

Will check next time I get into the game.
I don't really like Galfrey's voice because it sounds like Octavia forcing out regal accents (yes, its the same voice actress).

Wolf, that bug didn't impact everyone - I checked my difficulty setting last night after the patch and it was still "custom" for me
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September 11th, 2021, 02:16
Originally Posted by purpleblob1 View Post
I don't really like Galfrey's voice because it sounds like Octavia forcing out regal accents (yes, its the same voice actress).

Wolf, that bug didn't impact everyone - I checked my difficulty setting last night after the patch and it was still "custom" for me
Maybe I am getting better than lol. Either that or my Dhampir character, who is far from optimally specked as a Sacred Huntsman since I put his charisma at 16 … a useless stat for that class but important for RP reasons for me … is doing better than expected in fighting. It does help I know the market area so well.

I will know in a little bit as I am about to game for a few hours and will check the difficulty when I do. Semi-hoping it didn't change and I am just improving in the combat

In regards to the Queen, I still enjoy her as a character but oh she ticked off Lobo (my chaotic good feral warpriest) so badly right before sending him to … well you know where. Lobo is a very head strong, rather primal down to earth character not big on nobility or Paladins, and a typical Azatic who doesn't follow the rules … who thought he had been doing a really good job (he had - he had turned the entire crusade around in a good way) so … anyhow he will have words with her at some point lol

I suspect one of my other characters, especially the one I plan to do the Angel path with, will get along better with her. But need to finish the game once first with Lobo.
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September 11th, 2021, 03:16
Every time you say you have a character named Lobo, I wait for you to mention his companion or pet, Tomy.
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September 11th, 2021, 03:21
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
No not by a long shot. The bar to celebrate is over five million sold the first week. So re-read my post I said I'm happy for them but that is not big boy record sale numbers.

It's also the reason why more publishers don't fund these type of games anymore. Sadly it's a niche market where your lucky to sell a million copies in total. That's based on stats.

I wonder how many table-top Pathfinder players there are?
really not many games get 5 million sold first week….most hit around a million over its life time…now if you are comparing this to say uncharted or spiderman then of course it sold lower.

Also for instance xcom 2 sold 500k in it's first week and it has a much bigger market.
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September 11th, 2021, 03:27
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
really not many games get 5 million sold first week….most hit around a million over its life time…now if you are comparing this to say uncharted or spiderman then of course it sold lower.

Also for instance xcom 2 sold 500k in it's first week and it has a much bigger market.
I'm talking COD, GTA, and every other big IP that earn billions in the first week. Look 250,000 is good for a small developer, but in the big picture it's still niche sales.

Look at PoE 2 sold over a million and obsidian did not call it a success. Guess living in Russia helps since they use ruble's and the US$ dollar can buy you a lot more.

Sigh were just going circles here.
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September 11th, 2021, 03:42
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
Every time you say you have a character named Lobo, I wait for you to mention his companion or pet, Tomy.
Yep he role-plays the same NPC in most RPG's.

He always posts good screenshots as well.
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September 11th, 2021, 05:13
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
I'm talking COD, GTA, and every other big IP that earn billions in the first week. Look 250,000 is good for a small developer, but in the big picture it's still niche sales.

Look at PoE 2 sold over a million and obsidian did not call it a success. Guess living in Russia helps since they use ruble's and the US$ dollar can buy you a lot more.

Sigh were just going circles here.
I can say I'm shocked it didn't sell as much as GTA….
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September 11th, 2021, 05:19
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
I can say I'm shocked it didn't sell as much as GTA.
Your still not getting the point but whatever.

Do I need to put it in idiotic neanderthal speech?

Sales good for team like Owlcat… but not great by big guy industry…my head hurt now.
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September 11th, 2021, 05:24
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
Every time you say you have a character named Lobo, I wait for you to mention his companion or pet, Tomy.
I am sure this is TMI but what the heck.

His name came from three different areas that reflect his origin. I put a lot of effort into names as they are very important to me in regards to characters. I can spend days or longer trying to think of an appropriate one.

Lobo is a walking tank, a bit barbaric and animalistic but intelligent (on an AD&D scale about 12). He is a combat specialist with some special abilities depending on the game. In WOTR a warpriest was a good fit.

Anyhow I made him originally in FO4 where he was an Elite Courser who went rogue, underwent a mind wipe and was saved from death by Fenrir (as to why Fenrir it is based on a book I am writing and to say more than that would require a great deal of writing of little interest to most lol) and has become partly human.

That matters as the Institute had him on patrol at the CIT Ruins as a Local Operations Battle Operative, aka LOBO.

Then his second namesake is Lobo from DC Comics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobo_(DC_Comics) as he has some of that temperment and muscle.

His third namesake is a famous wolf from our own history: Lobo the King of Currumpaw, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobo_t…g_of_Currumpaw

So no Tomy and I had to google that to get the reference.
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September 11th, 2021, 05:38
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Yep he role-plays the same NPC in most RPG's.

He always posts good screenshots as well.
Thanks and while I never expect anyone to remember such details it was nice that you did :-)
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September 11th, 2021, 05:42
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Your still not getting the point but whatever.

Do I need to put it in idiotic neanderthal speech?

Sales good for team like Owlcat€ but not great by big guy industry€my head hurt now.
Hey, man you made a point that was stupid…sorry.

I mean it's obvious it would not sell as well as the big industry.

But I think we are saying the same thing now, or is your ego to big to accept that?
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September 11th, 2021, 05:47
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
Thanks and while I never expect anyone to remember such details it was nice that you did :-)
No problem and don't take offense about my other replies.

I love the game but not afraid to speak my mind.

Anyway I noticed you like playing Rangers or druids is there a reason for that? I remember you mentioned you like to role-play most of your NPC's in every RPG.
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
Hey, man you made a point that was stupid…sorry.

I mean it's obvious it would not sell as well as the big industry.

But I think we are saying the same thing now, or is your ego to big to accept that?
Yes…I'm..done now since I have a bigger headache.(Thanks to you).
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Last edited by Couchpotato; September 11th, 2021 at 09:39.
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September 11th, 2021, 09:36
250K copies in the first week is pretty amazing for a game like this.


Let's compare it to some other games by peak player numbers (Steam):

- Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous = 46,724
- Pathfinder Kingmaker = 22,643
- Pillars of Eternity = 41,906
- Pillars of Eternity II Deadfire = 22,724
- Tyranny = 15,792
- Wasteland 2 = 18,856
- Wasteland 3 = 24,555
- Torment Tides of Numenera = 7,430
- Disco Elysium = 8,081
- Greedfall = 16,345
- Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition = 3,756
- Baldur's Gate 2 Enhanced Edition = 2,644
- Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition = 856 (ouch)
- Planescape Torment Enhanced Edition = 955 (ouch^2)
- Divinity Original Sin (Classic) = 22,040
- Divinity Original Sin (Enhanced Edition) = 7,565
- Divinity Original Sin 2 = 93,701

So, out of this "peer group" of RPGs only Original Sin 2 manages to beat Wrath of the Righteous. Wrath is doing amazingly well.
And let's not forget that Original Sin 2 has multiplayer which was advertised massively by Larian and IIRC you got free coop keys for a partner if you bought certain versions of the game so the player numbers might be inflated by quite a margin.
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September 11th, 2021, 09:41
Keyword game like this. It's still not a blockbuster hit. For comparison CK2077 sold over 6 million copies it's first week. Seriously these are niche games people. That was my point.

Would be nice to see a sale graph comparison instead of players. I'm guessing not a single one of those niche RPG's sold over 500,000 in it's first week. That's disappointing.

I hope BG3 does better then that because I want more RPGs in that setting.

Edit: Now cue rune_74 or JDR calling me out on some bullshit.
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September 11th, 2021, 09:50
It just depends on many factors, like, how much they spent to develop the game, how much they spent in advertising, etc.

But I think it sounds like a good number for this type of game. What did Kingmaker sell during that first week, and how much in total sales? That is the number they should compare it to.

But another factor is this game probably is driving new sales of Kingmaker. So that is another thing to take into account, some players (or even many players) would play this game, like it, and then see there was a previous game in the series (Kingmaker) they never heard about or played, and then decide to buy that game too.

But putting that extra profit source aside.

Let's take a million units is what this game ends up selling after a certain time period. Ok, so some people payed $100 for the deluxe package. So let's say the average price was $80 a game. Or let's even be super conservative and say only a tiny minority bought the deluxe package and so the average price ends up averaging out to $70 a copy.

So $70 x 1 million is $70 million dollars in total gross sales. That is a big number especially for a company from Russia, where the salaries are probably low compared to many other places like in USA or some rich European countries.

Ok, I get they wouldn't make that much in the real number, because steam would get a cut, and whatever advertising costs and development costs would be (but probably a low number to be honest) but still, I can see them making a very tidy profit after all the numbers are crunched.
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September 11th, 2021, 09:59
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
So $70 x 1 million is $70 million dollars in total gross sales. That is a big number especially for a company from Russia, where the salaries are probably low compared to many other places like in USA or some rich European countries.
Well one Russian ruble is equal to $.014 so $70 million is 5,124,450,952 ruble's. You'd live like a king in Russia as most only earn about 20,000-30,000 Rubles per month.

Just remember everyday necessary items to live cost more also.
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September 11th, 2021, 11:23
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
I like her character as a character, just like Darien, Camilla, and Wen. However, I do not like her as a person in the game. I did at first until a certain chapter and a certain interaction my character had with her. I am eager to see what happens next, no spoilers, when I get to finishing the game.
Originally Posted by purpleblob1 View Post
I don't really like Galfrey's voice because it sounds like Octavia forcing out regal accents (yes, its the same voice actress).
You'll probably think I'm nuts but her voice reminds me of Aribeth in NWN's OC. Something in the stress and the commanding tone, I suppose.

Objectively she's fine for me as a person in the game, but my current character doesn't care much for all these titles and aristocrats. Fortunately she's not too haughty.
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September 11th, 2021, 16:24
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
No problem and don't take offense about my other replies.

I love the game but not afraid to speak my mind.

Anyway I noticed you like playing Rangers or druids is there a reason for that? I remember you mentioned you like to role-play most of your NPC's in every RPG.
I don't mind and most here know you speak your mind :-)

This will be long 'cause I am wordy and tend to give details.

I tend to prefer Rangers over Druid because the Ranger is more melee focused and isn't as restricted by alignment. I always felt I couldn't play a druid properly since I always veer into the good choices. Last time I really got into a druid was the two POE games and mainly because you could turn into a werewolf. In POE I played through both games once as a druid and once as a ranger.

I like them for similar reasons - nature based and animal companions with a nice mix of utility spells.

My favorite class, when I can do it, is a Ranger/Rogue mix … and toss in shapeshifting if possible, especially werewolf. Skyrim let me do that and part of the reason I am still playing it after 10 years. Both of my main Skyrim characters are werewolf ranger/rogues although one is more Ranger and the other is more rogue with added magic.

I didn't go Ranger in WOTR mainly because I was impatient and didn't want to wait 4 levels to get my animal companion Plus they offer a very good alternative - the Sacred Huntsman which has fantastic synergy with the Rogue.

I take 4 levels of Knife Master Rogue with 16 levels of Sacred Huntsman. This gives me:

- 4x back stab (2 from rogue levels, 1 from accomplished sneak attacker feat, one from precise shot feat) where 3 of those are 3d8 damage (due to Knife master using 1d8 dice for backstab with daggers) + 1d6 for precise shot.
- Weapon Finesse and Finesse Training for Daggers (which lets me use my Dex bonus instead of strength for damage and attack) from the rogue class
- Mugger background adds weapon proficiency for daggers but if you already have that proficiency then instead it gives you a +1 to attack with them. It also adds trickery (or maybe stealth, forget right now) and persuasion but since I already have those skills it gives me +1 skill to them instead. All the backgrounds work like that. So this gives me +1 to trickery, +1 persuasion, and another +1 to dagger attacks. The mugger BG also works perfect for the lore of my character who grew up on the streets as an Orphan.
- Take weapon specialization for another +1 on dagger attacks … these all start to add up.
- Uncanny dodge and evasion (harder to hit) from Rogue
- Fast Stealth (rogue talent) which means I can be in stealth with no movement penalty. This means I can cast Expeditious Retreat (from SH class) and run around maps/dungeons at high speed scouting and removing traps while in-stealth which is super useful.
- All skills open and lots of points. SH allows all the skills as "known" skills and SH and rogue give you extra skill points … along with the Mugger background, as mentioned above, I get added bonuses to key skills. With moderate INT that means each level I can invest in mobility, stealth, trickery, persuasion, and perception. A nice diverse set of skills to scout areas, pass skill checks for mobility, stealth and backstabs, find and disarm traps and open locks, and very good at persuasion based skill checks. Also the rogue and inquisitor have innate feats that nicely boost perception, initiative score, and persuasion. Toss in a Tiefling or Dhampir race and also adds more synergy as they can get racial bonuses to persuasion and stealth.
- Team work feats that I only need myself as an Inquisitor base class and as a SH subclass I share those all automatically with my animal companion (wolf of course).

Taking all the above I now have a decent melee character with some nice damage who works very well when fighting alongside his wolf buddy. While wearing light armor magic buffs, dodge, evasion, and the like means he isn't hit too often. He can scout out areas quickly while still in stealth, remove traps, find secret things (rogue adds trap finding which adds to perception and Inquisitor adds points to perception as a class feat), pick locks, pass various skill checks, and highly persuasive in dialogue … and has a wolf companion and some great spells. Overall a really well rounded and diverse character build.

For points dexterity is main, followed by wisdom (16 max). Leftover points into Charisma if I want more talking options or intellect if I want more skill options. Also what fits the lore of the character best.

I see the Sacred Huntsman as really a more diverse Ranger and hence lean towards it a lot. I usually take Desna or Gozreh as my deity, at least in the Pathfinder games.

While rambling I will explain why Lobo, my main melee, I decided to go Warpriest versus a Ranger or SH/Rogue build (which I am doing with my Dhampir, and Wulver is doing a Sorcerer/Rogue mix as a Tiefling).

Lobo is very primal and animalistic kind of melee character. He likes to get in your face in combat and finds combat to be visceral or instinctual. He also worships Fenris Wolf (Gozreh in this world) who in my lore is more a CN deity of nature and winter, and Lord of all Wolves.

So Feral Champion of Gozreh means Lobo fights with natural claws that grow our of his hands, which are fast and no need for two-weapon fighting feats. High coolness factor as well which is why in his case I can give up having an animal companion - he is already part wolf and in my head he can communicate with animals as well. Plus he goes Azatic so he does get a dragon companion which is cool Azata also fits his very CG temperament.

His skills are athletics, mobility, nature and religion (every other level due to how INT skill bonus works). He took the background of the warrior of the Linnorm (sp?) Kings. Mainly because of the cold resistance as he is a follower of Fenris and all his followers have innate cold resistance - closest I could get in this game. He also got the mobility skill from it.

In addition he can shape change later on into a wolf! This works great with his following Fenris, his claws, and his general wolf-predator like personality. With Mythic shapeshifting this change becomes more powerful and he can do it as often as he wants, no limited per day uses.

He is decent at melee and he gets a lot of great buffs and healing (and I really like to be able to heal, even if only a little, in games). His main points go into strength, constitution, and enough wisdom to cast up to level 6 spells. Think I put his INT at 12.

For feats I go for lore stuff mainly - toughness, endurance, shapeshifting enhancement, claw weapon focus, and some other things.

Lastly there is a reason I also prefer these builds, in most any group/party game, and that is because I really dislike being in the back of the party! Otherwise I would play a caster or cleric or focus on ranged damage versus melee.

I like being the one up front, leading and protecting everyone else, or working along side another tank. I want to be the one scouting, doing skill checks, talking, picking locks, leading the charge. So I tend to like versatile, jack of all trade, melee style fighters - preferably with an animal companion and some magic around healing and buffs.

I hope this wall of text also explains why I enjoy making my own characters so much more than playing a pre-defined character and why I have a hard time even playing a game that decides the character - like Tomb Raider or Witcher.

I put a lot of time, research, and effort into making my characters and doing that really builds an immersive bond with the character when I play - as I have a lot of lore, history, and personality with them and by the time I start to play I have already spent hours, days, even weeks, creating them in my head.

If the character is pre-defined I can't do any of that. Movies and books I don't care as then I am just an external viewer watching the story. But I like games so that I can be right there as part of the story versus just being a voyeur watching from the back seat.

At least half my fun in gaming is the escape into another world where I play myself as someone in another role (like who would I want to be if I found myself in this world? Is the question I ask when first starting to make a character) and where I get to decide and make who that someone else is. The more freedom I have the better … usually. I also require a good story, interesting companions, fun game mechanics, etc. In rare cases I might bond well enough with a pre-defined character I can enjoy playing the game at least once (Mass Effect was like this but it also had some limited freedom on who Shepherd was and how you play him).

Heh well sorry for the long reply Couch Hopefully that answers the question though.

TL;DR - Rangers are versatile, melee capable, leaders of the party who can scout, do magic, are nature based, and have animal companions. Toss in some rogue and they can also handle traps, locks, and some back-stabs.
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September 11th, 2021, 16:27
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
You'll probably think I'm nuts but her voice reminds me of Aribeth in NWN's OC. Something in the stress and the commanding tone, I suppose.

Objectively she's fine for me as a person in the game, but my current character doesn't care much for all these titles and aristocrats. Fortunately she's not too haughty.
I really like her voice myself and when you first meet her I thought I was really going to like her … and I do in a way but she clashes big time with Lobo's personality and character, especially when …

Spoiler
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