Fallout 3 - Review @ RPG Codex

Fun fact - Gareth "Section8" Davies, who wrote this review, is actually one of Fallout Tactics developers.

Ausir said:

Fun fact - Gareth "Section8" Davies, who wrote this review, is actually one of Fallout Tactics developers.

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Few people consider Fallout Tactics to be a bad game, especially since it never claimed to be a sequel to the Fallout series, just a different type of game in the same franchise.

I liked it for what it is: a story-driven linear tactical turn-based strategy game.

Fallout 3 claims to be the sequel to Fallout 1 & 2, it's in the name!! "3"!! Hence my high hopes and expectations... and my high disappointment. But in all honesty, even had it been called something else, it's not my type of game. I never managed to play more than 5 hours of Daggerfall, Morrowind, or Oblivion. Same with Fallout 3.

Are you confused about whether you actually like Fallout 3 or not, Hedek? Not like it matters all that much to me, it's just curious how your opinion seemed to change from reluctant admirer to total disgust.

One day, youre saying after you supposedly beat it "If only they didn't call it Fallout 3 it would have been (and i quote) "by far my favorite game in years." You went on to say again later that it was a very good game. Now it's "not my type of game", one of several recent totally negative comments by you about it, including your rant in the beginning of this thread pretty much ripping it from top to bottom. Then you say you beat the game before, now you say you cant stomach more than 5 hours of it.

Which is it, man? Are you just wetting your finger and seeing which way the wind blows before you form your opinion? Just trying to be a rebel or something? It's ok to admit that you like the game, you know = ]

Or is it?

At the risk of sounding like a stereotypical internet geek, I have to say it... somebody just got pwnd!

This is basically alot of the crap you see on the boards about the game...people who have never played it or make things up to go with the crowd. Isn't the internet wonderful?

xSamhainx said:

Are you confused about whether you actually like Fallout 3 or not, Hedek? Not like it matters all that much to me, it's just curious how your opinion seemed to change from reluctant admirer to total disgust.

One day, youre saying after you supposedly beat it "If only they didn't call it Fallout 3 it would have been (and i quote) "by far my favorite game in years." You went on to say again later that it was a very good game. Now it's "not my type of game", one of several recent totally negative comments by you about it, including your rant in the beginning of this thread pretty much ripping it from top to bottom. Then you say you beat the game before, now you say you cant stomach more than 5 hours of it.

Which is it, man? Are you just wetting your finger and seeing which way the wind blows before you form your opinion? Just trying to be a rebel or something? It's ok to admit that you like the game, you know = ]

Or is it?

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Indeed, but the opinion of people can change over time. And only fools refuse to admit it. In the past I have found myself liking games I despised at first. And sometimes it's the other way around.

I am impressed by how attentive you are to reading what people write here. Unfortunately I am not as thorough when writing my own posts. I don't always proof read them. As a result the structure of a sentence can give it a different than intended meaning (english isn't my native language).

So to quote myself at the beginning of this thread (December 22nd) I did finish the game, once: "Fallout 3 is the first Fallout game I didn't feel like replaying once I finished it... I even replayed Fallout Tactics, twice."

Then later on in this thread I said "But in all honesty, even had it been called something else, it's not my type of game. I never managed to play more than 5 hours of Daggerfall, Morrowind, or Oblivion. Same with Fallout 3."
When first writing this post I had put in a short explanation of things I didn't like in those 3 TES games and finishing with "Same with Fallout 3" meaning Fallout 3 has the same features/design elements that I do not like.
But I wanted to keep the post short and thought this wasn't a thread about Daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion so I removed it but forget to remove the "Same with Fallout 3". Skeptical people will probably tell you I'm making that excuse up... but it's the truth unfortunately I have no other means of proving it other than asking you to trust my word. But in this case I have nothing to gain or lose from bashing on Fallout 3.

Now to quote myself from other threads:
November 26th: "Thankfully unmodded Fallout 3 is already a hell lot better than Oblivion."
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5899

November 19th: "Excellent breakdown. And I could add several other things I didn't like. Despite all this, Fallout 3 is still an excellent game. It's definitely worth buying and easy to recommend. Still, there are so many things in Fallout 3 that could have been done better."
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5868

November 11th: "I'm playing and enjoying Fallout 3 and complaining it's not faithful.
Am I the only one thinking Fallout 3 is a great "game" but not a great "Fallout game"?
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5776&page=2

As you can see, clearly I went from "liking it"/"it's a great game" to "after playing it more extensively and finishing it, I don't like it that much anymore".
Reason for this: I was excited about Fallout 3, I was in total hype! Watching that trailer with that Inkspot song and Ron Pearlman saying "War... war never changes" gave me shivers and reminded of some of my best gaming moments. It's nothing Bethesda PR did in particular. The mere fact of calling it "Fallout 3" was enough to hype the **** out of me before they even released any info, or started doing any interviews and advertisement.

See I'm admitting I got fooled by my self-made hype, how often do you see that? I bought Fallout 3 ONLY because it's called "Fallout 3". Still, when I finally got the game, I knew it was very different from the previous ones, so I did my best to play it with an open-mind. And at first I found myself enjoying it alot. But as time passed I got bored. Really bored. For instance, VATS was cool the first 3 hours, annoying after that. I did my best to use it the least... but I'm not a very skilled twitch/FPS gamer so I couldn't do without it in tough fights.
But still I wanted to see the end of the main storyline, more out of duty than entertainment, specifically because I felt it would be unfair to write anything further about Fallout 3 if I don't finish it first.

So after more extensive play, I found out it's not my type of game, exploring every inch of the wasteland on foot bored me, and realized the huge difference that makes with F1 and F2 where you only explore a few select areas scattered across the wasteland. I still believe it's a great game for people who enjoy that kind of sandbox games: Gothic, Oblivion, etc. It's not my type.

I am however able to make the difference between "great games in a genre I don't like" and "crappy games in a genre I like". Something a lot of so-called professional reviewers can't do.

So yes I'd still recommend Fallout 3 to anyone who likes that type of game. I still think it's a great game if not the best in that genre, it's a better Oblivion in every way. But after extensive gameplay, and finishing it once, it's clearly not what I like, and especially not what I was hoping for a sequel to Fallout 1 & 2.

People change their mind all the time about games. I bet if most reviewers were asked to re-review all the games 6 months later many scores would drop. And if they don't it's out of ill-placed pride. And it's funny to see Oblivion getting bashed by the same people who praised it in their initial reviews.

(beginning of sentence removed due to people blowing it out of context, see my answer to Prime Junta's post). I'm not a gaming journalist. I don't think anyone decided to buy Fallout 3 based on what I said about it. If I misled anyone by liking it at first and changing my mind later on, I'm sorry.

Hedek said:

I have no responsibility towards anyone, I'm not a gaming journalist,

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Can't say I think much of your ethics if this is what you actually mean.

From where I'm at, every human being has a moral imperative to be honest and truthful. We often fail, of course, but that doesn't mean the responsibility isn't there.

Sorry guys. Fallout 3 was a miserable failure on many fronts.

Prime Junta said:

Can't say I think much of your ethics if this is what you actually mean.

From where I'm at, every human being has a moral imperative to be honest and truthful. We often fail, of course, but that doesn't mean the responsibility isn't there.

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I never meant that in a general -applies to every situation- way. Only as far as "giving a reliable and definitive judgment on games" goes. Indeed we have moral imperatives, and my posts have always been honest and truthful relative to when they were written.

I believe only reviewers (whose articles can put developers out of business and convince people how they should spend their money) have a responsibility of reaching a certain degree of certainty before publishing anything.

I don't think I am subject to the same obligation. I am only a gamer giving his honest and truthful opinion about a game he played, and that opinion changed.

I shouldn't have wrote anything about Fallout 3 until today? But then I shouldn't post anything today either because my opinion may change tomorrow? Hell, we should close down these forums, and make all newspapers illegal because people just might write things that won't reflect their thoughts later on?

Since when are people forbidden from changing their minds? Since when are people denied from making mistakes and admitting them?

When I was a teen I loved System of a Dawn, Slipknot and stuff like that, I was praising them and recommending my friends to listen to them too. Now I immediately switch the radio if I hear one of their songs and their records are gathering dust in my cellar. How is it different here, and does that make me a liar?

I've been skipping most of the hate posts, but I wanted to thank those who told me to go ahead and get Fallout 3 with my current system. I took your advice and bought the game last night and it runs fine on medium settings. I'm geeked up about playing it over the holiday weekend. I love Bethesda's games but will agree with one of the critcisms mentioned here: Bethesda's games do reach a point where you are all powerful and there's no reason to finish the game. I don't play the games to finish them, the main quests generally suck. I play them for exploration and character building. I even enjoy making the doll in the beginning.

jhwisner said:

You guys are all missing the point of the article! This is clearly meant to be satire- intellectual snobbery from an author whose name means "giant penis." The author is clearly poking fun at the more rabid segment of fallout fans by juxtaposing such airs of pretension with laughable statements like "And in ten weeks, let alone ten years, nobody will be talking about it." Love it or hate it, it's one of the best selling video games this year; add that to the DLC coming out and the G.E.C.K. and you're going to have a lot of people still playing it and talking about it 10 weeks from now. Clearly the author "baby arm" doesn't intend this review to be taken seriously.

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No, I'm pretty sure that the review is meant to be taken seriously, as evidenced by the in-depth discussion on its every aspects. The hyperbole is there for comedic effect, but I'm pretty sure that it's not supposed to be a parody of codexers or NMA-ers.

This is by far the most complete, in-depth, and descriptive review that I have seen for this game. (but Jeff Gerstmann's review at Giantbomb.com is also very good). I see people bashing it but I don't see anyone saying exactly where they disagree with it (except for the aforementioned statement about the game being forgotten in 10 weeks). This means that the people that are angrily bashing this review are ironically filling the stereotypical "angry vitriolic nerd" role that is commonly attributed to RPG Codex and NMA. Based upon our experiences with Oblivion, I think that this review will more accurately reflect the consensus on Fallout 3 in two years than the glowing 10/10 A+++ 5-star reviews that came out with the game's release.

Prime Junta said:

From where I'm at, every human being has a moral imperative to be honest and truthful. We often fail, of course, but that doesn't mean the responsibility isn't there.

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I couldn't help but chuckle a bit at what you wrote. I'm sorry PJ, this isn't an attack or anything, just my reaction when I read your post. I might see the dark side of people too much but from my point of view hardly anyone is truthful or cares to try to be. From governments to businesses to even friends, who is totally truthful? It's sorta how our whole system of being operates. A lot of little white lies makes the world go round Once again, I'm not attacking so please don't post a million lines on how wrong I am I just wanted to thank you for sharing a view point that seems to be in heavy decline for a very long time. If you were really being honest in your post then I have to say my faith in humanity went up slightly.

This is one of the main reasons I love teaching. If you want honest answers then ask a child (except if they think they are in trouble, they'll lie through their teeth to try to get out of trouble)I've been amazed at how the world looks through the eyes of a child.

Back to the topic:
Fallout 3 - I can see Hedek's point of really loving the game at first and then slowly getting frustrated with it as time went by. Even my posts in the beginning for Fallout 3 were positive, but as I progressed farther into the game they became more negative. I still think it's an ok game, with the usual awsome graphics but I miss the narrative style of Fallout 1 and 2 too much.

Hedek -
It wasnt a progressive thing, that's what was confusing - it was after you supposedly finished the game Hedek that you stated it was so great, perhaps your favorite in years (if not for the title). Then, after being exposed to radiation or something you decided it was all bullshit and you hate the game. It's like talking about how great a meal was one day, then the next week turning around and complaining about how horrible it was. You also stated you werent going to replay it at all, so it's not like a replay changed your mind.

Here i thought that i had my little For vs Against spreadsheet layed out all nicely, and you went and messed it all up! LOL

Nothing I want to argue about or create a topic around or anything, just struck me as kinda funny (if not slightly schizophrenic)

I have been playing crpgs for over 20 years and even though Fallout 3 isn't my most favorite game ever I still rate it high. When it comes to the original games (like most games from the mid to late ninties) I couldn't get into the games and didn't really like them so much. The games I like the most are from the pre-windows 95 days but I also like some modern crpgs and console rpgs.

PS. The above was my own opinion and people who flame other people for their own opinions should think about it first. Why should I flame them since it isn't going to change their opinion and isn't really contributing to anything other then the damaging of myself and (maybe) the person I am flaming.

PPS. All of the flaming on this thread is starting to remind me of a game I started playing recently called Forumwarz which is an rpg-satire on the idiotic things that happen on the internet.

guenthar said:

PS. The above was my own opinion and people who flame other people for their own opinions should think about it first. Why should I flame them since it isn't going to change their opinion and isn't really contributing to anything other then the damaging of myself and (maybe) the person I am flaming.

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To the point exactly. Flaming doesnt achieve anything except waste your (and the other persons) time and make you look like an asshole. Trolls are of course exception to this - they flame because they want to waste the time of others.

Actually, I don't think that Fallout 3 is a superb game. It was fun for some time, but I lost interest in it after app. 20 hours into the game. But nevertheless it is one of the better games I have played since Oblivion (although I am not too much into games anymore).

Some of the critizism in the RPGCodex review is more than valid, but they are making a fatwah out of everything related to Bethesda and FO3 in particular, maybe they should call themselves RPGTaliban - living in the past and considering their own rules godsent *g*

Ok, peace

Why don't y'all stop whining already and go play Fallout: Dwarf Fortress?

[ http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=22554.0 ]

Rendelius, where have you been? We rarely see you here anymore.

"RPGTaliban"........... Hmm................ I like it!!

Ausir said:

Fun fact - Gareth "Section8" Davies, who wrote this review, is actually one of Fallout Tactics developers.

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No wonder... Not only did he *slam* F3, but he also gave good some damned good suggestions as to how it could have been made better.

I have a question for the people that played F3. How do you think its writing stands up to a Hollywood movie? Do you think it would win an academy award?