Dragon Age 2 - 103m of Cut Scenes

Ovenall said:

Mass Effect 1&2 were fun to play, extremely slick, and I really enjoyed them. They are not pure RPGs, but EVERY RPG from the past had its own stupidities and problems, and in one way or another weren't "True" RPGs.

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True, but even if the old games had their faults, they were trying to be true RPGs, the same cannot be said about most new games.
I also liked ME 1-2, what I don't like that is that new games are stripped of important RPG gameplay elements. And I wouldn't even have a problem with that, if the oldschool RPGs and action RPGs were existing next to eachother. So everybody could play with what he/she wants to. But unfortunately the market only caters to the action game lovers.

Ovenall said:

Mass Effect 1&2 were fun to play, extremely slick, and I really enjoyed them. They are not pure RPGs, but EVERY RPG from the past had its own stupidities and problems, and in one way or another weren't "True" RPGs.

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That's a prime example of Ignoratio elenchi… There are no true RPGs(which is always up for argument/interpretation), but then again that is not what is being discussed here. As time progresses games have fewer and fewer core RPG elements/mechanics and yes those that are included are streamlined and indeed quite slick. Many AAA devs/pubs simply seek to capitalize off the fame/nostalgia of their previous IP/titles. To do so on a large scale requires mass appeal - which, as far as I can tell, entails awesome buttons, epic cinematic scenes, a voiced protagonist that may or may not say what you intend him/her to say, dumbing-down everything, ect ect.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, so feel free to complain about the complainers…

I'm not complaining. Just having fun.

Unfortunately I have to agree with Maylander and Ovenall.

I started coming "here" back when it was still RPGDot and have been here at the Watch since the very beginning. As of late I feel less and less inclined to come here let alone participate in discussions for the simple reason that it seems that the people who liked PLAYING RPGs have been replaced by people who like to COMPLAIN about RPGs.

DArtagnan: You are a perfect example (I'm not trying to get personal, but you're participating in a lot of threads here and you've been here a very long time). When was the last time you had anything positive to say about RPGs? 6 months? 2 years? Judging by the comments I've seen in the past 6 months I honestly wonder why you haven't found a different hobby a long time ago because I really don't get the impression that you enjoy the time you spend playing games.

Perhaps it is merely that some of the more outspoken positive persons have stopped coming here but unless a game is an indie or at least looks like an indie, the initial general RPGWatch response seems to be one of pessimism or at the very least distinct scepticism.

A shame really. It used to be a really great place here. Plenty of interesting discussions with passionate people who genuinely enjoyed RPGs. Now, it's one negative bitching thread after the other.

Perhaps it is time to change the site slogan to: RPGWatch - For people who used to like RPGs.

... or perhaps it is just time for me to move on to greener pastures.

fatBastard() said:

Unfortunately I have to agree with Maylander and Ovenall.

I started coming "here" back when it was still RPGDot and have been here at the Watch since the very beginning. As of late I feel less and less inclined to come here let alone participate in discussions for the simple reason that it seems that the people who liked PLAYING RPGs have been replaced by people who like to COMPLAIN about RPGs.

DArtagnan: You are a perfect example (I'm not trying to get personal, but you're participating in a lot of threads here and you've been here a very long time). When was the last time you had anything positive to say about RPGs? 6 months? 2 years? Judging by the comments I've seen in the past 6 months I honestly wonder why you haven't found a different hobby a long time ago because I really don't get the impression that you enjoy the time you spend playing games.

Perhaps it is merely that some of the more outspoken positive persons have stopped coming here but unless a game is an indie or at least looks like an indie, the initial general RPGWatch response seems to be one of pessimism or at the very least distinct scepticism.

A shame really. It used to be a really great place here. Plenty of interesting discussions with passionate people who genuinely enjoyed RPGs. Now, it's one negative bitching thread after the other.

Perhaps it is time to change the site slogan to: RPGWatch - For people who used to like RPGs.

… or perhaps it is just time for me to move on to greener pastures.

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Although I've just arrived to RPGWatch, I looked around in the topics, and I think that it is not bad as you say it to be. There are lots of people, hogy like the new games, and lots who don't. If this is your opinion about RPG Watch, you probably shouldn't approach RPGCodex. The users there eat games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect for breakfest.

I was unaware of RPG Codex. I just went over there and poked around.

Now I wish I was still unaware of RPG Codex. What a bunch of douche bags.

I don't get it. I'm not a fan of modern sports broadcasting. But I don't go on a sports forum and incessantly complain about how bad everything is now, and how it's just getting worse, and how everything that I don't like is for morons, etc. These people need to get another hobby. And maybe get laid at some point.

Ovenall said:

I was unaware of RPG Codex. I just went over there and poked around.

Now I wish I was still unaware of RPG Codex. What a bunch of douche bags.

I don't get it. I'm not a fan of modern sports broadcasting. But I don't go on a sports forum and incessantly complain about how bad everything is now, and how it's just getting worse, and how everything that I don't like is for morons, etc. These people need to get another hobby. And maybe get laid at some point.

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One can find interesting discussons there, it is just deeply burried under the trolling and hating.

Ovenall said:

I was unaware of RPG Codex. I just went over there and poked around.

Now I wish I was still unaware of RPG Codex. What a bunch of douche bags.

I don't get it. I'm not a fan of modern sports broadcasting. But I don't go on a sports forum and incessantly complain about how bad everything is now, and how it's just getting worse, and how everything that I don't like is for morons, etc. These people need to get another hobby. And maybe get laid at some point.

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Ah rpgcodex I love that site. Simply goto there site browse there topics and sit back and laugh. They also have some posters that love every rpg and companies cant do wrong.They also have members that put posters to shame here with there fanaticism of bioware. Sad part is some of them are right. If you cant see the faults in games you love and still enjoy then your not really enjoying your game. No game is perfect. As I said before everyone has there own opinion. Don't buy games just because of brand name and blind trust.

Getting Laid thats a great sport and hobby.For any that dont like the bitching Perhaps you should check out the Bioware forums . Listen ! games are changing especially AAA games and they are not marketing to a mature age group and it sucks. In the end those that bitch including me have to deal with it. Its not all that bad its just venting. Take what you need from the site and leave the rest. This is the best site for RPG news and opinions .

DArtagnan: You are a perfect example (I'm not trying to get personal, but you're participating in a lot of threads here and you've been here a very long time). When was the last time you had anything positive to say about RPGs? 6 months? 2 years? Judging by the comments I've seen in the past 6 months I honestly wonder why you haven't found a different hobby a long time ago because I really don't get the impression that you enjoy the time you spend playing games.

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What you're demonstrating is selective memory, based on whatever reason - probably a general dislike.

I've praised countless games on these boards, and just recently praised games like New Vegas, Divinity 2, and Fallout 3. I've even defended the much hated Arcania.

So, it's not that I actually do what you say, but that you focus on everything that matches your flawed perception of me.

Yes, I'm an extremely vocal critic of the things I don't enjoy or believe in - but I'm exactly the same way about things I DO enjoy and have great admiration for. Much of that is about older games, but I've been one of the most positive members in terms of the future - and I've recently made a thread about exactly that - where I said that 2011 seems to be the greatest year for games in many years.

I love gaming and I will always love gaming.

In fact, it is my passion for it that makes me so vocal against what I consider counterproductive to great games.

Also, I'm just the kind of person who likes to let my thoughts out for air, and that's the problem with forums. You meet all kinds of people, and there will always be those you don't like or don't agree with.

I would never complain about other people like you do, because I understand that we're all different in terms of wants and needs. I have many thoughts about people here, but I try not to let my own personal disposition stand in the way of the opinions of others. I think everyone should just "let it out" - whatever it may be.

If I rub you the wrong way, there's an ignore function. Very convenient and it's the perfect way to get rid of people you can't stand. Just ignore me, and you won't have to read my negative thoughts.

As I said, I intend to criticise Bioware until they change - or until I stop caring completely. The latter is more likely, but it may be a while yet. They used to be too good for me to utterly dismiss what they're doing.

A shame really. It used to be a really great place here. Plenty of interesting discussions with passionate people who genuinely enjoyed RPGs. Now, it's one negative bitching thread after the other.

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I'm not really seeing that. Such things go up and down, and people are all different.

To be honest, I think it's you - and not the Watch. As I recall, it has always been a place of intelligent criticism and insight, and it's no different today than it was years ago. Lots of people praising games - both indies and AAA titles - you just have to look around.

If you think we're less passionate because we're less forgiving, you're very, very wrong.

rich ruffo said:

Its not all that bad its just venting. Take what you need from the site and leave the rest. This is the best site for RPG news and opinions .

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Perhaps we should leave it at that

So a whole discussion about bitching about bitching. I think you guys are nuts. There are plenty of people who are excited about some of the games being released, but don't expect me to say one good word about this game DA2. I had plenty of good things to say about DA:O before it was released. I was excited, but not this time. No fucking way am I being positive about how they have handled the PR for this game.

BTW, you guys really do have a selective memory. Take a look at all the people who have positive things to say about Dues Ex (Lots of people excited about that one), a few for Darkwind, Skyrim, Dead State, AOD, Dungeons(maybe just Sammy and I are excited about this one ) , The Witcher 2 and many many other games. Sure you will get people complaining as well, but I don't see it as badly as you people do.

Maybe try reading some other threads than DA2. DA2 just makes me sad and pissed off on so many levels.

Bitching about bitching, lol. You guys are truly funny sometimes.

skavenhorde said:

So a whole discussion about bitching about bitching. I think you guys are nuts. There are plenty of people who are excited about some of the games being released, but don't expect me to say one good word about this game DA2. I had plenty of good things to say about DA:O before it was released. I was excited, but not this time. No fucking way am I being positive about how they have handled the PR for this game.

BTW, you guys really do have a selective memory. Take a look at all the people who have positive things to say about Dues Ex (Lots of people excited about that one), a few for Darkwind, Skyrim, Dead State, AOD, Dungeons(maybe just Sammy and I are excited about this one ) , The Witcher 2 and many many other games. Sure you will get people complaining as well, but I don't see it as badly as you people do.

Maybe try reading some other threads than DA2. DA2 just makes me sad and pissed off on so many levels.

Bitching about bitching, lol. You guys are truly funny sometimes.

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Why thank you. Wasn't the internet made for bitching about bitching? You know it is. Its fun that's all there is to it.

The Internet is for porn avenue Q.

There's porn on the Internet?!?

While I'm an avid Bioware basher these days, you may not see me as much in the DA2 threads anymore. You guys did say we should get a new hobby…

Edit: After delving headlong into my new hobby this evening, I can't help but recognize some similarities between playing some of Bioware's latest "RPGs" and masturbation...

fatBastard() said:

Perhaps it is merely that some of the more outspoken positive persons have stopped coming here but unless a game is an indie or at least looks like an indie, the initial general RPGWatch response seems to be one of pessimism or at the very least distinct scepticism.

A shame really. It used to be a really great place here. Plenty of interesting discussions with passionate people who genuinely enjoyed RPGs. Now, it's one negative bitching thread after the other.

Perhaps it is time to change the site slogan to: RPGWatch - For people who used to like RPGs.

… or perhaps it is just time for me to move on to greener pastures.

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...Or perhaps help balance the ledger? And that goes for Maylander and Ovenall and anyone else. If you help provide positive participation, that can only shift things a little in the direction you want, right?

All that I would like to add is that this is the first (and only) forum/gaming site that I've ever joined in all my years of gaming. The reason: This is the only gaming site out there (that I know of) that actually has intelligent discussions on games, which is a refreshing change from the usual internet cesspool of fanboyism and internet-anonymity induced insults. Sure, sometimes comments can be negative or slightly biased against certain developers who might not always deserve the vitriol hurled their way, and I don't always agree with all of the opinions shared, but at least RPGWatch offers a civilized environment where open discussions and opinions can be shared, accepted, or refuted in an intelligent and (mostly ) respectful manner. If you don't like the complaining on games like DA2, then offer a positive opinion; I highly doubt that anyone would be lambasted or attacked for having an opinion that goes against the popular opinions held on this site regaring DA2 or any other game (unless someone were to call Gothic 4 the greatest RPG ever...that might draw some hateful opinions, but I'm sure you get my point ).

^What Nerevarine said^

This is also the only forum I've ever joined. I'm a longtime lurker and only recent poster. These are the only boards I frequent for all of the reasons Nerevarine mentioned, although I'm clearly not contributing to intelligent discussions or a civilized environment. But, honestly, what do you expect from a monkey? At least I'm not throwing my feces…

Props to the Watch.

Dhruin said:

…Or perhaps help balance the ledger? And that goes for Maylander and Ovenall and anyone else. If you help provide positive participation, that can only shift things a little in the direction you want, right?

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I'm trying, always did, but it never felt like an uphill battle until recently. Sure, some games are obviously a huge step in the wrong direction, but in the past it was usually enough to point it out and leave it that. Nowadays it always turns into a six-page whine about how the genre is being killed by the people wanting to make money.

Speaking of which: People running a business wanting to make money - that's an entirely new concept. It didn't actually exist back in the days. Publishers 10 years ago were idealists who released games just to make people happy...

Anyway, let's stay optimistic and I'm sure the Watch won't turn into the Codex any time soon. As long as developers like PB and Obsidian exist, we'll continue to get good RPGs.

Im not sure why I should i.e be excited about DA2. I got bored playing first DA halfway through and have yet to return to it. Now if DA2 is more of the same its just somthing I got bored of. Thats unless they made it better than DA? So far it seems they made it even more boring.

Im however excited about Dead State, AOD, Withcher2 and possibly Risen2. Mostly because Ive yet to play any of these games (havent played first witch yet) risen been the exception. Nowadays its pretty rare for sequel to excite me. More than often I dont even buy them anymore.