Am I the only one that finds Darkspawn concept unbelivable ?

Ah, thanks

wolfing said:

I don't see your point. So they can't speak, that doesn't make them stupid. Humans were probably as smart 100000 years ago as they are today, they just lacked the knowledge, maybe their form of communication is through grunts, smell, facial expressions, who knows.
I'm all for having fantasy game/worlds be belieavable, but at least this didn't bother me.

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You probably dont see my point because you think fighting with sword is same as swinging a heavy branch.

When in fact it was martial art. For which you needed long training.

Now try training insanely aggressive creature that can not even speak in martial art.

Sure if bioware showed them wielding clubs , or ripping enemies with claws and such. Maybe hammers or spears even. Those needed almost no training. That would maybe make more sense. But than there is issue of the armors too.

You're forgetting that the Darkspawn are born from Humans, Elves, Dwarves, etc.

Who's to say that they don't retain their fighting skills from their past incarnations?

Well. I thought of that too. And it is probably the only reasonable explanation.

But what in fact happened in my opinion was a very lame shortcut on part of Bioware writers. They needed main enemy that could not be reasoned with. Wanted to avoid any wish of communication or request for negotiation option.

Like you had in Baldurs Gate for example. You could try and get out of any combat trough dialogue. They just didnt want that.

So they said : Darkspawn can not talk, nor do they understand language.

Twotricks said:

Like you had in Baldurs Gate for example. You could try and get out of any combat trough dialogue.

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Haha, what?
Because you know, you most definitely couldn´t.

Also, I hate the "am I the only one?" phrase.

DeepO said:

Also, I hate the "am I the only one?" phrase.

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I am sure that the phrase hates you too

I find concept of Dwarves more unbelievable than Darkspawn (really, large underground cities over lava? Huge-statues to compensate for.. well.. the size..?).

Among other things..

Other things like each and every party member you gather. Bunch of unrealistic freaks of nature. Murderers, religious psycho's..etc.etc. I would never sleep comfortably near such people, forget saving the damn world.

Well, that makes sense because they're all (or most) seeking redemption.

MasterKromm said:

Yet after gaining access to the specialization no one seemed to care one way or the other

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Maybe it's all right for a Grey Warden to be a blood mage.

DeepO said:

Haha, what?
Because you know, you most definitely couldn´t.

Also, I hate the "am I the only one?" phrase.

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I think he meant to say you could get out of *some* combat.


Still.... Baldur's Gate > Dragon Age without a doubt.

JDR13 said:

I think he meant to say you could get out of *some* combat.


Still…. Baldur's Gate > Dragon Age without a doubt.

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Baldur's Gate > Dragon Age > Dragon Effect (aka Dragon Age 2)
But that's just my crazy prediction

Baldur's Age ?

Darkspawn probably cannot speak because there wasn't enough money in the voice over budget . I guess you can be happy that they cannot talk, because they probably would have said something stupid.

The concept of a hivemind is not restricted to sci-fi insectoids, either. Just think of the Bosmer in the Elder Scrolls series, although it isn't really realized in any game mechanics, only in the in-game books.

That said, I find the whole concept of "darkspawn" terribly derivative and boring. Also, both of the darkspawn and wardens are somewhat disgusting in their background. I don't find anything endearing in the whole game story, so I haven't played DA:O yet.

I'm in the mood to take something apart - thanks for volunteering.

1. Just because they can't speak does not make them stupid. Hand signals, scents, facial expressions… there are billions of ways to communicate other than voice. And that's just in the real world - in fantasy you can have…..

2. A hive mind! How do you have a hive mind without being able to communicate, eh? If they have any kind of hive mind, even a weak one that just influences actions, they must have some way to communicate with each other that you can't see. Gotta be telepathy! Probably something in the blood, given how Grey Wardens can tap into the channels after drinking just a bit of it.

3. Where do you get that their society is so insanely hostile that they attack each other given the chance? I'm assuming you mean beyond the levels that humans attack each other.

4. Weapon/armor Reality - oh please. Show me one game where swords are done with even some realism and I'll show you a truely horrible game. "Ooops, damn, got my axe stuck in his hip bone. Joe, could you come finish him off, he's screaming like a banshee and his blood keeps squirting on me." Yeah, real fun game there. And tell me how armor and shield are going to do any good against even an ogre? One of its arms is going to weigh more than that whole suit of plate armor!

The Darkspawn are pretty clearly in the class of enemies that are unquestionably evil to the core with no hope of redemption. Morally, it's perfectly obvious that you should kill as many of these scum as possible. These kinds of enemies are used all the time in stories (including Tolkein's orcs and Jordan's trollocs) when the author wants to focus on the good guys and how they react instead of exploring how the evil types got to be evil or some such. No moral ambiguities - they are the bad guys and you are the good guys. (And they make an agreeable "thump.")

BioWare's writing is top notch. It's not their fault that you equate "unable to speak" with "total idiot" and then run off from there trying to prove that their fantasy world can't possibly be real.

I have to agree with Zloth and some of the others. All these issues are adequately covered by the in-game fiction. I find it hard to believe this could be so immersion-killing unless you can't stand any fantasy game - they are all full of holes.

The darkspawn originated with Tevinter Magisters entering the Fade and forcing their way into the Golden City, corrupting them. We see in the game how new darkspawn come from captured humans and dwarves. It's not unreasonable to think they might retain some skills- or that the original Tevinter Magisters might not form some sort of darkspawn leadership.

We also know they search for the Old Gods, leading to a Blight. When the Old God becomes the Archdemon, that presumably adds to the leadership.

We see Hurlock mages - surely a race capable of decent magic is sentient.

We see darkspawn forges to make / repair weapons, for heaven's sake!

As for communication, this is well covered. We know they form a hive mind and communicate mentally. You can even experience this for yourself in the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC.

I also disagree Dragon Age is so generic. It's derivative - as is most fantasy - but the lore is reasonably detailed and interesting for a first game. It's definitely not innovative but not as bad as the accusations.

Dhruin said:

I find it hard to believe this could be so immersion-killing unless you can't stand any fantasy game - they are all full of holes.

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In a recent TDE discussion called (quoted from my memory) "the meta-plot - only bombast & begging for effects ?" (very crudely translated; the "meta-plot" is an overlying natural development within venturia, regarding politics, society und such) someone was talking about in-game "myths".

TDE still has a few parts of myths & of fairy-tale feeling in it, and someone thought it was not quite fitting to let - for example - Aventurian Gods appear within an adventure.

Several people within his discussion kind of agreed that myths should remain myths - and tht means, they consciousl contain "holes" ansd are NOT explained - especially NOT through the means of logical reasoning which we do in "real life" since the age of the Renaissance.

We are SO MUCH educated into doing nothing but logical and rational thinking that in our "real-life" world all myths are almost gone.

For example Troy. There are excavations. scientists are coming the myth much closer now.

A myth thoroughly enough explained and analysed ceases to be a "myth". The "myth factor" is taken away from it, like a "game factor" can be taken away from any game that's considered to be merely a "ware".

A myth that's explained ain't any myth anymore, so to say.


So, this means there are at least SOME myths that MUST remain myths - because otherwise EVERYTHING becomes dull because the brain has nothing anymore to ponder about.

It's lik … The taste of something gets lost if you explain it merely consists of chemical molecules that TRICK you into BELIEVING that a food has actually taste.

It can become a distaste. "The thrill is gone", to quote the title of an older song.

So, there are holes in myths. Holes, which cannot be explained. They MUST be there. Because everything else would result in complete nerdyness and into "continuity porn".

I DO NOT want to know how the stochastics regarding dice rolls are. Explaining to me that a certain amount of rolls cretes a higher possibility to certain numbers to appear,
THAt totally breaks the fun of dice-rolling for me. If explained, I do not need any dice-rolling anymore, because it very, very effectively destroys the "fun-factor" and the "surprise effect" of dice rolling. I could use mathematical formulae instead of that, it would have the same broken fun- & surprise fctor.

But some people find it fun to break everything down to mathematical formulae. For example there exist formulae for the best cooking and whatnot. Just take a look at the IG Nobel Prize. http://improbable.com/

Myths should remin myths. we must not explain everything. Because when everything's explained, the landscape loses its colour.


And by the way, a-bombs are definitively among the things we do not need to know.