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Default Elder Scrolls VI - What Can be Improved From Skyrim

January 29th, 2019, 19:11
My biggest gripe is Destruction magic. Make it superior to the damage done by melee and archery when applying poison. Mages are squishy. Their damage output should be devastating since one hit will kill them. I don't put points into stamina or health. I'm a mage!

Add breaking down non-used weapons and armor to the base game. Don't make me install mods to do this.

Make TES VI the easiest game to mod ever. The modders have made the tools. Import these into the base game. Pay the people who have made the game worth playing over and over for the years. Arthmoor, Elminster, etc. Add these guys as external developers where possible.

Hire all new writers. Make the factions have lots of friction. The houses of Morrowind is a good starting point but there should be more. I'm actually fine with the jack of all trades characters, but I don't want them to be able to befriend everyone.

Make the game smaller in size but much larger in population. A capital city should be as big as every city in Skyrim combined. It is fine if there are only a few. Skyrim should have made Morthal, Rorikstead, Helgen, Riverwood, et al as suburbs of the bigger cities.

Unlock followers to at least 3 or 4 by default. Add a non-annoying pet option. Skyrim dogs were horrible.

Vastly increase armor, clothing, weapons and other options. We're 64-bit with 16 gigs of ram. Use it!
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January 29th, 2019, 23:50
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
The article claims something is off with Skyrim, making it barely replayable.
This signals that the writer can not accept what Skyrim is about. Players who accept the basics in Skyrim usually find it quite replayable.

Therefore the direction the article sets to improve the product is a way to adjust Skyrim to his tastes.

This remark does not mean that there is not room to improve Skyrim.

Just that this writer is not interested in improving SKyrim because he can not take Skyrim was not designed to fit his tastes.
Aha, you were only commenting on the article. Then I'll have to agree with you as well.
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January 29th, 2019, 23:54
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
By the time this comes out, Skyrim will be a decade old!
* Level scaling is good in Skyrim, best not touch it
It is? I would say it's only good if it's not present at all…not to mention the loot scaling. One of the worst ideas ever.
Last edited by TomRon; January 30th, 2019 at 00:39.
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January 30th, 2019, 00:05
Totally agree on loot scaling. I prefer a mixed setting for that. Some hand-placed, some level scaled for a good mix. I feel if you tackle something above level, the reward should also be above level. I also would like minimum levels for the tougher mobs. You shouldn't be able to kill a dragon until level 15 or so imo.

However, I'm playing Skyrim right now with Vilja, Inigo, and Lydia. You need mods to make this fun as it would be way too easy in vanilla. That's the greatest single thing about Skyrim. It is very mod friendly. Each new game since Skyrim has been less and less mod friendly. That's why revenue has gone down too since then; at least in part.

SSE you have slight hoops to jump through for free mods.
F4 slightly more hoops and less good mods because of it.
TES VI could be ruined by Bethesda's greed. Make it easy to mod freely. It's okay to have premium stuff too, just make sure it really is premium and not horse armor or Hearthfire.
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January 30th, 2019, 01:05
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
Unlock followers to at least 3 or 4 by default. Add a non-annoying pet option. Skyrim dogs were horrible.
3 or 4 simultaneously? I have to disagree with that one. This is Bethesda not Bioware. They don't do party-based games. I like the solo exploration with the option of having 1 companion tag along. I'd prefer they keep it that way.
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January 30th, 2019, 05:20
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
It is? I would say it's only good if it's not present at all…not to mention the loot scaling. One of the worst ideas ever.
I like it. When I get out of whatever jail they start me in, I can go ANY direction I want! With more traditional RPGs, you need to follow The Path or you face things that are higher level than you are. Assuming the game is reasonably difficult, that means doom and you have to get back on The Path.

With Skyrim, they let you go most anywhere and it will work out fine. You can get yourself killed if you decide to hike up the stairs to the Throat of the World at level 2, I suppose, but most places will alter to fit your power level. There's no "oh dear, the monsters `con red all directions but north, I guess I go north."
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January 30th, 2019, 06:13
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I feel if you tackle something above level, the reward should also be above level.
What you wrote there is an excellent point and sorely missing in modern cRPG's relentless pursuit of scaling and balance.

I really love the idea of negotiating my way through something way above my level and if successful, obtaining some OP loot that isn't stats or level gated that I can actually use.

Ultima 7 and Gothic 2 are some great examples of being able to do just that. Sure, it might make enemy encounters trivial for a time… still it's a lot of fun if you decide to pursue that course.
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January 30th, 2019, 09:06
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
I like it. When I get out of whatever jail they start me in, I can go ANY direction I want! With more traditional RPGs, you need to follow The Path or you face things that are higher level than you are. Assuming the game is reasonably difficult, that means doom and you have to get back on The Path.

With Skyrim, they let you go most anywhere and it will work out fine. You can get yourself killed if you decide to hike up the stairs to the Throat of the World at level 2, I suppose, but most places will alter to fit your power level. There's no "oh dear, the monsters `con red all directions but north, I guess I go north."
I can see that's the point of scaling, but to me the effect is the opposite of fun. I WANT to be able to go in the "wrong" direction and have "OH SHIT" moments where something scary chases you. It also ties in with what @TheMadGamer wrote, it's about risk and rewards. But there's a reason I wrote "option" in my original post, because I understand why some people prefer scaling. But to me it only feels immersion breaking and, more importantly, less fun.
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January 30th, 2019, 09:52
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
I like it. When I get out of whatever jail they start me in, I can go ANY direction I want! With more traditional RPGs, you need to follow The Path or you face things that are higher level than you are. Assuming the game is reasonably difficult, that means doom and you have to get back on The Path.

With Skyrim, they let you go most anywhere and it will work out fine. You can get yourself killed if you decide to hike up the stairs to the Throat of the World at level 2, I suppose, but most places will alter to fit your power level. There's no "oh dear, the monsters `con red all directions but north, I guess I go north."


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January 30th, 2019, 10:44
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
I like it. When I get out of whatever jail they start me in, I can go ANY direction I want! With more traditional RPGs, you need to follow The Path or you face things that are higher level than you are. Assuming the game is reasonably difficult, that means doom and you have to get back on The Path.

With Skyrim, they let you go most anywhere and it will work out fine. You can get yourself killed if you decide to hike up the stairs to the Throat of the World at level 2, I suppose, but most places will alter to fit your power level. There's no "oh dear, the monsters `con red all directions but north, I guess I go north."
Possibility to go anywhere and do anything at any given point makes any progression in the game irrelevant and I, personally, immediately loose any interest and motivation to play it. Just for story sake I can watch youtube.
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January 30th, 2019, 13:53
Fast travel is not activated until a place is found. So progression keeps all its meaning. Big part of Skyrim is the exploration.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
Make the game harder. Make gear more meaningful and impactfull throughout the course of game play. Half the fun of open world sandboxes is finding useful gear. Skyrim became easy almost right away.
Can not be delivered. They actually tried to move toward making it harder with a stronger definition of character builds.

It was rejected by players'demand who insisted they must be able to ace any skill with no limits.

Any attempt to make it harder by balancing it through a paper scissor rock approach is nullified, because cant lose when having all the three options.

Another option would be bigger than PC enemies, guys with double the PC stats etc
Another failure since players insist they must be the most powerful entity in the game world.

Choices were made and now players must live the consequences.
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January 30th, 2019, 15:25
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Fast travel is not activated until a place is found. So progression keeps all its meaning. Big part of Skyrim is the exploration.


Can not be delivered. They actually tried to move toward making it harder with a stronger definition of character builds.

It was rejected by players'demand who insisted they must be able to ace any skill with no limits.

Any attempt to make it harder by balancing it through a paper scissor rock approach is nullified, because cant lose when having all the three options.

Another option would be bigger than PC enemies, guys with double the PC stats etc
Another failure since players insist they must be the most powerful entity in the game world.

Choices were made and now players must live the consequences.

Exploration is important, but definitely not only part of Skyrim character and game progression. And for me, exploration on its own does not make Skyrim progression enticing enough. Exploration alone makes it just walking, button mashing simulator. In my eyes, Elder Scrolls is more ambitious than that.

So I hope that Bethesda will choose somewhat different game design mix for next Elder Scrolls chapter to make character progression more interesting.
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January 30th, 2019, 15:42
I think Chien's right. What I want is not what the "Players" want, and I have a hard time believing the next iteration of TES will cater to my tastes. But one can always wish. And like Couch said, there's always mods. Is there a mod to remove ALL the scaling in Skyrim? Might play it again if there is… I'm sure there are loads of mods that make it harder, but are there ones that actually set the levels of all monsters and areas from the start? I wish I could be slayed by some dragons. Of course the loot would have to be set as well.
Last edited by TomRon; January 30th, 2019 at 22:38.
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January 30th, 2019, 20:46
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
It was rejected by players'demand who insisted they must be able to ace any skill with no limits.
Sadly, I agree with you. Too many games are lacking to provide that feeling of satisfaction you get when your character grows in capability and/or from better gear because the game itself fails to deliver much of anything you can't do right from the start.

I started playing Elex for the first time and while the game is typical PB clunky when it comes to combat, I thoroughly enjoy the fact that I'm getting my ass handed to me because it makes character improvement and acquiring better gear a lot more fun. It also motivates me to explore the world, and get off the beaten track. This motivation is missing in so many games these days. Pretty graphics and scenes is motivation to explore lasting about 5 minutes. After that, I need game mechanics to provide that motivation.
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January 30th, 2019, 22:40
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
Pretty graphics and scenes is motivation to explore lasting about 5 minutes. After that, I need game mechanics to provide that motivation.
Amen.
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January 30th, 2019, 23:39
I agree with several posts made here but alas, I don't have high hopes. All I can really hope for are pretty graphics and ability to decorate house without hassle of crazy physics engine!
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January 30th, 2019, 23:43
Well like I say as already pointed out that's why we have mods to fix the games. Unless Bethesda decides to use it's own client again then you might have to wait.
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January 31st, 2019, 05:26
@Andrew23, @JDR13, @TomRon

OK, so standard RPG style you'll have dungeon A with kobolds and goblins, fort B with a bunch of hill giants, and dungeon C with vampires and liches. If you start the game and first poke your nose into B or C, you'll quickly find out that you went the wrong way and you'll need to go find A. (You'll probably have ignored all the signs pointing you at A, too.)

If it's open, you can go into C first and find it's populated with skeletons and zombies. Going to A next will have you fighting ogres and trolls. Then go to B and face the storm giants. Or go to B first and face some tall'ish barbarians, then C for mummies and specters, then finally go to A and face a wizard with his demon horde.

Either way you're facing an ever increasing challenge. Either way, the devs will design the first place you go in such a way that you'll have the experience you need to take on the second and then the third place you go. In the standard model, though, the devs decide where the low level, the medium level, and the high level stuff goes. In an open world, the player decides - and can decide differently on a second play-through.

Now it can get silly. Changing giants into barbarians in my example, for instance, is pushing it a bit. I would have been terribly disappointed if I had discovered Blackreach and found only mudcrabs and skeletons in there. I'm fine if they want to put a few areas along the main quest that are higher level and lock them off until I advance far enough. But, for the most part, I really like it open.
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January 31st, 2019, 08:57
There are plenty of open world games that don't have level-scaling and still allow the player to decide where he goes.

Stop being such a goddamn pussy and git gud. (As those kids like to say)
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January 31st, 2019, 09:35
A thought I had about randomization today in RPGs. Generally its not good and boring. In Skyrim it involves getting a random quest with a random dungeon with the negative that the loot is largely useless and it becomes mere busy work.

It works in roguelikes because every random thing adds to your story and your struggle to survive. But how to fix this? How to make randomization interesting and a natural part of your story in an RPG?

I would fix it by having an AI story manager allocate random events depending on your reputation, class, race, skillset, weapon choices etc. So the AI might note that you have a thief build that likes to assasinate people. It decides to send assassins at you from the factions you have annoyed and which know your strengths and weaknesses and are specced accordingly with enticing gear. You have the option now of paying off their employer or continue wiping the assassins out.

Or say you are a mercenary fighter for hire. Depending on who you are allied for or against offers will come in for your services. Some will come from your rivals with a strong inducement to break your current contract. Point is that you could do much more interesting randomization in an Elder Scrolls game than what we have at present.
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