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January 31st, 2019, 10:43
@Zloth, I see your reasoning, I just don't think that it's a fun way to design games. For starters, you don't need to have just A, B and C. You can have A1-A5 for example, giving you plenty of choices. The vast majority won't replay a 80 hour game several times I believe? What scaling takes away (for me) is the thrill of exploring areas way above your level and equipment, and perhaps even more so the sense of finally being able to tackle certain areas or monsters head on. If I can kill Dragon at level 3, where's the sense of danger after that?

If you want examples of open world games that didn't have scaling but still didn't feel railroaded (to me anyway), The MM series, Wizardry and PB (Gothic and Elex especially) games come to mind. Of course most of those games have other flaws instead, but in the end I much rather play in a world where I have to adapt, than in a world that adapts to me. That's the biggest immersion breaker that exists in my view.

Again though, I think PoE2 got it right by adding the options of full scaling, only scaling up, and no scaling at all. Then you and I can both get what we prefer. I don't know of any other games that have done that.
Last edited by TomRon; January 31st, 2019 at 12:42.
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January 31st, 2019, 20:24
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post

OK, so standard RPG style you'll have dungeon A with kobolds and goblins, fort B with a bunch of hill giants, and dungeon C with vampires and liches. If you start the game and first poke your nose into B or C, you'll quickly find out that you went the wrong way and you'll need to go find A. (You'll probably have ignored all the signs pointing you at A, too.)
Worth reminding the pattern got quickly abused to dilute content.

Move to A, progress until meeting a roadblock, move to B, progress until meeting a roadblock, go back to A to try to lift the roadblock, failure, move to C, progress until meeting a roadblock, go back to B to try to lift the roadblock, failure, move back to A, lift the roadblock, progress and so on.
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January 31st, 2019, 21:12
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Worth reminding the pattern got quickly abused to dilute content.

Move to A, progress until meeting a roadblock, move to B, progress until meeting a roadblock, go back to A to try to lift the roadblock, failure, move to C, progress until meeting a roadblock, go back to B to try to lift the roadblock, failure, move back to A, lift the roadblock, progress and so on.
While that is certainly true for many games (MMX comes to mind), that's not the only way to do an unscaled world. I do still prefer the MMX version to the Oblivion one though. Skyrim was a bit better, at least it took more time to feel the scaling there since it is area dependent.
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January 31st, 2019, 21:51
@JDR13R The reason I like more companions is that I typically take Lydia, then I mod in Vilja and Inigo or Hoth and Sophie, etc. I end up playing with 4 people all the time so I have to add in the follower mod or something similar. I'm fine with one companion being the default but would prefer if the engine is very adaptable to more. Skyrim works fairly well in the Civil War, so the combat is already suitable. It's mostly navmesh issues indoors.
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February 3rd, 2019, 22:21
I could write an entire book about potential improvements.

I trust Bethsoft to take about four steps forward and a single step back, which is what they usually do.

What I'm hoping for the most is fewer locations - but with more depth and distinction to each of them. Beyond that, I want them to continue their "Survival" game option and expand it.

Another really important improvement would be actual good writing. Well, either improve the writing - or just let go of trying to tell such a cinematic story in such a huge open world environment. I actually liked the FO76 way of making the environment the key in story-telling - though I'm not sure it would work in a fantasy world populated with NPCs.

But, it's clear that the Bethsoft writers absolutely suck ass when it comes to compelling narratives and characters - so they need to do SOMETHING different if they want that aspect of their game to work.

Finally, I would love proper cooperative multiplayer in a PRIVATE server environment - but I know that's not happening, and I'm pretty sure FO76 scared Bethsoft off of that whole notion, sadly.

Beyond that, games as big as these can be improved in a million ways. I will leave that to Bethsoft.

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