Hellgate London - Demo EULA Concerns

... I'm using internet explorer version 7 and google to browse the internet. And IE7 and Google also tracks IP adresses etc. to help IE7 and Google become better programs...

Anyone running a website can tell you that just about any visitor tracking software - AWStats, Webalizer (both typically provided by the web host and parsing server stats), Google Analytics, StatCounter (3rd party trackers requiring a few lines of code inserted on your pages) and many others - can tell damn near anything about their surfers' technical specifications (IP - and thus country, OS, screen resolution, browser name and version, Java/Flash availability, connection speed) and where they were coming from, which keywords they were searching for if coming from a search engine, where they are leaving to, the route they took through your site, how long they stayed on each page, if they've been there before and how many times, and so on and so forth.

It's just statistics, and while it can certainly be used for marketing purposes (and obviously should for any commercial site owner with a hint of business sense), it's probably rather doubtful that anyone will bother looking at your particular stats (which admittely isn't readily possible in all stats software either, though some does allow viewing data on an IP level). It's just numbers between thousands or hundreds of thousands others - it's the big picture that's interesting.

That said, EULAs like this one can of course be grounds for concern if it's used as a platform for inserting unwanted ads etc., but as long as they stay in the game (and shown under more or less appropriate circumstances) I personally don't have much of a problem with that.
 
The other reason was I applied not knowing the beta was purely multiplayer, and I really am only interested in the singleplayer component. Without the EULA I might have tried it, but it was the factor that made me decide "Why bother?"

Just for your information the beta is multiplayer insofar as you want it to be, that is, you are alone in the adventuring instances -- unless of course you want to team up -- and only meet other players in the subway station hubs (and the chat window).
By the way I am finding the beta much more interesting than the demo, which I uninstalled very quickly after trying the little it offers.
 
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I tend to agree with Miths. Every website can (and many do) collect statistics such as IP, location, browser and so on and I honestly expect online clients to do the same. Maybe I'm out of step but I'm not at all surprised.
 
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I wasn't planning to get this game anyway. Development crew aside the development news hasn't done anything to excite me.

For concerns about google I just block any cookies to Doubleclick and Google since Google is buying them. I believe MS made an Anti-trust complaint to the Feds over this. That's one case I'd like to see them win.
 
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I tend to agree with Miths. Every website can (and many do) collect statistics such as IP, location, browser and so on and I honestly expect online clients to do the same. Maybe I'm out of step but I'm not at all surprised.

The issue is that what is described in the EULA goes beyond that and is much like the rootkits that Sony got blasted about - we're talking file and application tracking on a system-wide basis. That is not acceptable.
 
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Heres another way to look at it:
It's got a good back story. It has rare loot. It has oodles of evil monsters just waiting to drop a new "teh shiney". It has legendary loot. It has a handful of semi-different classes, with a handful of semi-different skills, so you can get loot in a handful of semi-different play styles. It doesn't have a bone crushing death penalty, in fact, no penalty what so ever if you don't want to pay for a rez. It has no face stabbing grind. It has no forced grouping. I can group ala the diablo series and get scaled difficulty monsters and xp. It doesn't require hours of trying to get a raid together to enjoy the "endgame". I can wade right into a horde of evil solo or with a couple of friends without regard of what class they are, no healer, no problem. If I want more, I can pay 10 bucks and get all I can stand until I can't stands no more. It has unique loot.

As far as all the ads and EA is out to get me stuff. It is in the tinfoil hat phase right now, let's see what happens.
 
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There are things that can be done to prevent unwanted exploitation by websites, well if your registered with them, like The Watch(er? :) ), obviously then they have access to more info.

You can shut down your Server Registration and certainly block dangerously open ports like 445 and 135.

Shutting down your Server Regestration, hit Start, Run and paste this line.
regsvr32.exe -u c:\windows\system32\regwizc.dll
To reactivate, no reason you need too though, same procedure except, substitute -c for -u to renable.

To close the most dangerous open ports, you need to be able to edit your Registry and have access as Administrator.

Port 445 is located here and make the "Transportbindname" a blank datafield.
Localmachine\system\currentcontrolset\services\netbt\pramaters

Port 135 is located here, just unclick "enable Distributed Com".
Admin tools conponent services, computers, my computer, right click, Default properties.
Then remove both default protocols DCOM protocols SPX and Connection- oriented TCP/IP

Just depends how secure you like to be, getting some nice Freeware like Active Ports is a nice idea, if you suspect problems or just want to see whats going on.
http://www.download.com/3000-2085-10062969.html

Lots of these solutions can be found in the network or browser sections on websites like:
http://www.tweakxp.com/
http://www.annoyances.org/

In case anyone cares. :)
 
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I don't know that much about consumers laws, but I'm pretty sure that these things mentioned in the EULA for Hellgate:London break Danish consumers laws, and possibly also EU consumer's laws as well.

As devils advocate, it should be noted that they are not breaking any laws.
The EULA screen pops up and you can press "I accept" or "I decline" before any data is collected.

The only issue is for people that buy the game ignorant of the EULA contents who want to get a refund after hitting "I decline"
 
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Just for your information the beta is multiplayer insofar as you want it to be, that is, you are alone in the adventuring instances -- unless of course you want to team up -- and only meet other players in the subway station hubs (and the chat window).
By the way I am finding the beta much more interesting than the demo, which I uninstalled very quickly after trying the little it offers.

Thanks for the information, Cormac. I have some regrets, of course. There are many things about the game I'd like to check out, but I'm not in a tearing hurry about it. The EULA was just one more factor in getting to the dealbreaker for me. I've been watching the marketing blitz, the pets, statuettes, contests, and other juvenalia for awhile, and it just doesn't look like my kind of game anymore. That doesn't mean a lot of people won't have fun with it.

It may be something I get around to one day when all the furor has died down, but right now, there's too many games I'm more interested in, none of which are asking me to turn my pc into their little goldmining machine.

Also hearing Roper say things like this just makes me think single player is going to be a dead-end in Hellgate.

In the newsbit I posted today (interview w/ CVG, ) he says this about the subscription mode:

And then every three months we want to have much bigger content dumps. Things where you're not just getting gameplay mechanic changes or events but you're getting entirely new artwork, new areas, new monsters, new skills and items, even things as big as new gameplay modes - new damage types that alter the way the game is played - even things as big as new character classes. Things you only usually see in expansion sets.

Then he immediately says that those who play the SP game and the free MP won't be losing anything. It's just doublespeak, frankly--you are losing all kinds of game experience if you can't access new character classes and expansion content unless you subscribe to a service you don't plan on using:

We want to be able to do that, and for people that want that, then they can subscribe. But they [those who aren't paid subscribers] don't get less of the game because they don't, they just don't get it moving forward.


Right.
 
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I think this sounds just like EA has found yet another way to get into people's pockets, to get their money. Want to get the game? Fine :) Want to get new content, character classes etc. Fine :) --- but then you have to fork over at least 15-2o US dollars each month to be able to get upgrades and such to the game.

People have argued that Bethesda's DLC for Oblivion like the horse armour, Knights of the Nine etc. normally would belong in an expansion pack, or maybe in a patch as we've known the patches for Bioware's games to work recently. EA just does the same as I can see, the difference is that only subscribers get the new content.

I don't know whether or not Guild Wars do this, too? but least Guild Wars releases the new content on DVD discs, too - for everyone to buy, not only subscribers or people who have registered.
 
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The Guild Wars method is an open deal for the customer. He can see what he gets for his 45 bucks, read reviews and then choose to buy it or not. So far not many people complained about the quality of the content packs every 6 months I think.

Shelling out 10 bucks a months for unspecified updates is a completely different beast.
 
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Bethesdas microdownloads and guild wars expansion methods are not good moneymakers. Customer actually has a chance choose whether he wants to pay for the content or not - bethesdas microdownloads only made people angry, i doubt they made much profit. With subscription the developers can be more liberal in the expansion development.
 
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Wow, just wow, your ignorance is either intentional (industry shill) or well deserved. :)

There always seems to be 1 out of 20 or 30 that has no problem with it, in every forum thread, here's the Blue's responses so far, whom started this story, iirc.
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=82122

I bet your the same guy in each thread, right mr unregistered if that really is your name! :)
 
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Funny when you go to bluesnews and it's full of fecking adverts and pop-ups.
 
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Wow, just wow, your ignorance is either intentional (industry shill) or well deserved. :)

There always seems to be 1 out of 20 or 30 that has no problem with it, in every forum thread, here's the Blue's responses so far, whom started this story, iirc.
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=82122

I bet your the same guy in each thread, right mr unregistered if that really is your name! :)

AWW is somebody jealous that his theories got proven wrong.

Never been to bluesnews, but I think it pretty sad that you have to say I'm the same guy in those threads. But then again look at your theories...
 
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