Tyranny - Review @ GameSpew
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ChienAboyeur
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Tyranny is a remarkable product. They managed to design a product with no audience. That RTwP had no audience was known beforehand, but it was unknown that the style of narration they use (leaving the player to shape knowingfully the story) would also have no audience.
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You lost me with "RTwP had no audience".
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It also seems to have sold quite well. Personally, I'm enjoying it. Overpriced at full price? Yes, I think it probably is. I bought my copy for $30, and I think that's fair.
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RTwP definitely has an audience, *why* it has an audience remains a mystery since in every game that uses this system the combat is inevitably described as "awkward", "repetitive", "chaotic", "mediocre", etc. etc. RTwP does nothing better than turn-based, RTwP does nothing better than real-time, and the combination of the two is no improvement on either.
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I do agree turn based is better, which is how I always play RTwP. Playing it that way is clumsier...but manageable.
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Nah.. that's nonsense. It may be chaotic compared to turn-based combat, but it's certainly not "mediocre" in games like BG, IWD, and DA:O.
As far as which mode is better, that's obviously going to be subjective.
GabrielMP_19
Vault Survivor
Most modern incarnations of RTwP are very clumsy. PoE was a tragedy and I'm playing Tyranny now and it's only slightly better in terms of confusion, although the systems seem a lot more shallow.
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Not better, different.
RTwP gives a different experience, one that I find a lot of fun when it's implemented well. It gives the kind of "rush" you get from real-time action while giving the ability to issue orders to your party members and then watching them unfold "live", then when you need to make another change or something unexpected, etc., happens, you quickly hit that pause button, regroup and figure out what to do next. It is a bit of organized chaos but that's what also makes it fun. It's great to me.
I don't get the criticism of the system itself. Not every game needs to be turn-based, real-time or RTwP. You can enjoy RPGs that are any of those styles.
And since I usually mention it when RTwP is brought up, I'd love to see a game like Morrowind that has a RTwP combat system. Why? With all the spell possibilities in Morrowind, really taking advantage of your spellbook can be too hectic in real-time. If the game had RTwP as well as being balanced to support that (i.e. the battles would be a bit longer so the spell effects would be noticed, etc.), it could really be amazing.
Well, I can't, but I guess that's obvious from my frequent rants!
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Well, I can't, but I guess that's obvious from my frequent rants!
I'm not familiar with your frequent rants, so either they aren't that frequent or I frequently don't see them (or some mixture of both).
What I mean is, while RTwP is currently my favorite type of combat (turn-based would be 2nd, real-time 3rd, etc.), if the RPG has other worthwhile things I can deal with any combat system. So, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is one of my favorite RPGs ever and it's real-time combat but has other interesting RPG elements that make it worth playing, IMO.
I just like RTwP because it's unique and has a distinct feel to it. I wouldn't say "better" than other systems but it is just different and has good aspects about it.
To me there are several games where RTwP is exellent. Off the the top of my head would be the Total War series, the Infinity engine series and the Neverwinter Nights series. I've also playes several games where the RTwP combat was actually really well implemented but the games where lacking in other aspects. Those would be for example JA:BIA and the UFO series.
I can't think of any newer RPG's where I really liked RTwP though. PoE was only so-so, I hated combat in DA:O (which for some reason felt more like playing WOW than BG to me). I'll take the turn based approach from D:OS and WL2 any day over any of those. I've yet to try Tyranny, my PC time is currently sitting at 0 hours/week.
And a first person game with RTwP? Just...no. Turn based is great as long as it's party based. But single character RTwP would be...horrible. Actually, so would single character turn based I reckon?
I can't think of any newer RPG's where I really liked RTwP though. PoE was only so-so, I hated combat in DA:O (which for some reason felt more like playing WOW than BG to me). I'll take the turn based approach from D:OS and WL2 any day over any of those. I've yet to try Tyranny, my PC time is currently sitting at 0 hours/week.
And a first person game with RTwP? Just...no. Turn based is great as long as it's party based. But single character RTwP would be...horrible. Actually, so would single character turn based I reckon?
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First-person RTwP would be far from horrible. Skyrim already has the pause menu to select weapons, spells, shouts, etc. that you have favorited, so take that one step further and balance the game around a RTwP system. Imagine having the spellbook of Morrowind and actually having to use many of them in combination. Buffs, debuffs, damage dealing spells, resistance spells, etc. etc. It would simply give you an opportunity to use more of the spellbook and presumably abilities without having 2 seconds to pull it all off in real-time. The combat would be dice-roll based and faux-action as Morrowind was, only it would be lengthened and a time element would be added in the style of the IE games (6 seconds per round or what have you). Sounds good to me.
DA:O combat was fun to me and so was PoE's, but the king of the RTwP combat is still BG, BG2 and IWD. As for modern games, I think there are several reasons why we don't see as many RTwP games. One, turn-based games are easier to make (the first Xcom remake seemed to lay a solid blueprint of modern turn-based combat that many companies ran with), and two, they probably appeal to more gamers since RTwP is more of, what's the word, obscure? type system? Turn-based exists in many more games than RTwP does so I think that familiarity plays a role as well. There are many factors that make developers lean more towards turn-based.
First-person turn-based Morrowind style game already exists, it's called The Quest. I haven't played it yet but I hear it's pretty good. That Might & Magic VI, VII, etc. were pretty good, too (and they actually had a button that switched in real-time from turn-based combat to real-time combat. It is brilliant.).
DA:O combat was fun to me and so was PoE's, but the king of the RTwP combat is still BG, BG2 and IWD. As for modern games, I think there are several reasons why we don't see as many RTwP games. One, turn-based games are easier to make (the first Xcom remake seemed to lay a solid blueprint of modern turn-based combat that many companies ran with), and two, they probably appeal to more gamers since RTwP is more of, what's the word, obscure? type system? Turn-based exists in many more games than RTwP does so I think that familiarity plays a role as well. There are many factors that make developers lean more towards turn-based.
First-person turn-based Morrowind style game already exists, it's called The Quest. I haven't played it yet but I hear it's pretty good. That Might & Magic VI, VII, etc. were pretty good, too (and they actually had a button that switched in real-time from turn-based combat to real-time combat. It is brilliant.).
Yeah, but M&M are party based. Then real time with option to go to turn based is the way to go in my opinion. I actually played the later M&M in real time and very seldom went to turn based.
The Quest? Alright, I'll check it out. Single character still feels like RT is the way too go though, I never paused in Skyrim? I like turn based (or RTwP) because it gives me many options while still controlling multiple characters/units. I just don't see the need with only one character.
Still, when I think about it, Fallout 1 and 2 are pretty much the most awesome games ever. Single character turn based. They aren't first person though.
The Quest? Alright, I'll check it out. Single character still feels like RT is the way too go though, I never paused in Skyrim? I like turn based (or RTwP) because it gives me many options while still controlling multiple characters/units. I just don't see the need with only one character.
Still, when I think about it, Fallout 1 and 2 are pretty much the most awesome games ever. Single character turn based. They aren't first person though.
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Oh, I paused a lot in Skyrim. On harder difficulties you sometimes need to switch weapons or spells, drink a potion, etc. You can favorite the items and they show up on your Favorite menu which is a single button press you can do live in the game to pause it and bring up the menu. It's nice but not exactly what I'm thinking of.
What I'm getting at with the Morrowind RTwP system. You would get to say, cast a Sanctuary spell on yourself, pause, cast a Weakness To Fire spell on the enemy, pause, hit them with your created FIRE!! spell, etc. The combat would be longer and not so hectic. Morrowind combat has tons of options in terms of spells, spell-crafting, items with unique enchantments, etc., that if you try to use several things in one fight it becomes too hectic, etc. So this would just slow down the real-time combat a bit and let you be more strategic while also being a first-person RPG with RTwP (first of its kind, I guess). I think it would feel alright without party-members as well since the game would be first-person.
I played M&M VI in turn-based a lot, although I didn't equip every character with Bow skill because I thought it was silly (even if it *is* very effective). The nice thing about that system was in a tougher battle you could go turn-based yet for easy mobs you could just real-time it. It is nice to have the option.
What I'm getting at with the Morrowind RTwP system. You would get to say, cast a Sanctuary spell on yourself, pause, cast a Weakness To Fire spell on the enemy, pause, hit them with your created FIRE!! spell, etc. The combat would be longer and not so hectic. Morrowind combat has tons of options in terms of spells, spell-crafting, items with unique enchantments, etc., that if you try to use several things in one fight it becomes too hectic, etc. So this would just slow down the real-time combat a bit and let you be more strategic while also being a first-person RPG with RTwP (first of its kind, I guess). I think it would feel alright without party-members as well since the game would be first-person.
I played M&M VI in turn-based a lot, although I didn't equip every character with Bow skill because I thought it was silly (even if it *is* very effective). The nice thing about that system was in a tougher battle you could go turn-based yet for easy mobs you could just real-time it. It is nice to have the option.
luj1
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It is. It's remarkable in its dullness
This forum is a better version of Monthy Python I swear. Previously he praised Super Mario for its "narrational depth".. then you have Fluent (who is a good guy, with good resistance to SJWitis) who gives poe 10/10 calls dungeon crawlers multiplayer games and refers to cutscenes as CGI.. And ofc lets not forget Abrilette the customary (in this day and age) rabid liberal.Bless you all
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Caidh
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I'm definitely one who has enjoyed RTwP, though haven't had a chance to play Tyranny yet. The Infinity Engine games, along with DA:O are some of my favorites of all time and I did enjoy PoE greatly.
Yes - some people don't like RTwP, but some do. If we are just catering to the majority, we wouldn't have many RPGs anyway - so what if RTwP is a niche of a niche if enough do like it.
Yes - some people don't like RTwP, but some do. If we are just catering to the majority, we wouldn't have many RPGs anyway - so what if RTwP is a niche of a niche if enough do like it.
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Kimda odd that RTwP is niche considering the IE games are so revered. It's one of those things that other devs just never really tried (like all those great ideas in the first 2 Gothic games).
Well, some would argue the Infinity games are great in spite of the RTwP combat, and not because of it.
I always thought I preferred RTwP, to a large extent because of BG. But when I look at what games I actually enjoy the combat in today, turn based gets the upper hand.
I always thought I preferred RTwP, to a large extent because of BG. But when I look at what games I actually enjoy the combat in today, turn based gets the upper hand.
That seems like a strange argument to me considering you spend around 75%-80% of your time in combat in those games. I couldn't imagine them being as popular as they are if the combat was as bad as those people claim.