Assassin's Creed: Odyssey - Behind the Odyssey

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
I'm not talking about having them visible on the map. I'm talking about having a set of pre-defined things you can expect to find, denoted by specific symbols - making any and all exploration completely predictable and repetitive.

As in, you know almost exactly what you'll find because the symbol will tell you. You get the very distinct feeling that a level designer is sitting with a level editor and dragging stuff into the level, instead of creating something more bespoke and handcrafted..

If you play with that feature on, yes. Personally, I don't get why anyone would, but I guess a lot of gamers today prefer to know what to expect rather than discover it on their own.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
It's ok joxer, I think TW3 is safe from harm, even without your obsessive defense

What defense. I'm just saying you should save money for games you like. Nostory grinders with as excessive clickfest as possible. No shame in that.

Originally Posted by JDR13
If you play with that feature on, yes. Personally, I don't get why anyone would, but I guess a lot of gamers today prefer to know what to expect rather than discover it on their own.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

It's not the map feature itself. It's the fact that they have predefined things to find from a very limited pool of events.

Contrasted with strong exploration games, like Gothic or Fallout 3/4 - you know what you'll find before you even go about exploring. Even if you play with the feature off, the game will tell you as soon as you're within range - like "Monster Nest" in W3 or whatever.

In Gothic or Fallout 3/4 - you know you're entering a dungeon or building, but you don't know what you'll find or how extensive the location is. You could be entering a dungeon that will take an hour to explore and you could find tons of useful stuff. That's not the case in W3 and certainly not in Origins - where it's extra predictable.

Almost every "PoI" in W3 and Origins absolutely smacks of cookie cutter content placed with an editor as predefined content.

Well, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by joxer
What defense. I'm just saying you should save money for games you like. Nostory grinders with as excessive clickfest as possible. No shame in that.

Yes, it's always frustrating when people don't love what you love. I get it

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

It's not the map feature itself. It's the fact that they have predefined things to find from a very limited pool of events.

Contrasted with strong exploration games, like Gothic or Fallout 3/4 - you know what you'll find before you even go about exploring. Even if you play with the feature off, the game will tell you as soon as you're within range - like "Monster Nest" in W3 or whatever.

In Gothic or Fallout 3/4 - you know you're entering a dungeon or building, but you don't know what you'll find or how extensive the location is. You could be entering a dungeon that will take an hour to explore and you could find tons of useful stuff. That's not the case in W3 and certainly not in Origins - where it's extra predictable.

No, I get what you're saying. Thing is, if you don't have that feature turned on, there's no symbol until you're right on top of it.

For me, that meant I usually found whatever it was before I was even aware of a new PoI marker.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
Yes, it's always frustrating when people don't love what you love. I get it

So you're frustrated because I hate mmos, phonegames and lootboxbased online garbage like Destiny.
Don't be. No point.

AC Odyssey is supposed not to be mmo nor phonegame and it shouldn't contain lootboxes.
My friendly suggestion for you was to skippit.

Originally Posted by JDR13
No, I get what you're saying. Thing is, if you don't have that feature turned on, there's no symbol until you're right on top of it.

For me, that meant I usually found whatever it was before I was even aware of a new PoI marker.

No, you really don't get it

But I don't see the point in going on about it.

Yeah, that's what's happening here.

Next, you'll explain how those markers still matter even when someone is finding whatever is there before seeing them.

Well, sorry Darth, but you can remove nearly every indication from the UI in TW3. That includes map markers, tips, hints, HP from you or the target etc. So basically you can walk around blindly without any of those "?" markers so I fail to see what your complain is about.

Yeah, reading is hard

But let’s not turn this into yet another W3 is perfect thread.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
No, you really don't get it

But I don't see the point in going on about it.

I get what your saying and it was a big problem for me as well.

It’s not the POI’s on the map it’s the fact that that they kept repeating the same 4/5 POI events.

Bandit camps, liberate another town, another treasure chest full of junk, another nest to blow up, bleh. I finally just stopped going to them so it was nice to have them on the map so I could avoid them.

Witcher 3 exploration was a major bummer for me.

As for ac, I enjoyed origins for a while but didn’t finish it. I’ll still probably pick this one up though, but probably on sale.

Originally Posted by sakichop
I get what your saying and it was a big problem for me as well.

It’s not the POI’s on the map it’s the fact that that they kept repeating the same 4/5 POI events.

Bandit camps, liberate another town, another treasure chest full of junk, another nest to blow up, bleh. I finally just stopped going to them so it was nice to have them on the map so I could avoid them.

Witcher 3 exploration was a major bummer for me.

Exactly

I was talking about loot not the PoI "events".

I agree those are redundant, but there are enough handcrafted side-quests in TW3 that the PoI events aren't needed content-wise. They're just extra padding.

I liken them to the Radiant quests in Skyrim and FO4 in which you also see a pattern of the same 4-5 types of quests that are there just to pad the game.

Well, if you enjoy freeform exploration - then handcrafted side-quests don't really qualify, as they tend to come about in towns or specifically marked areas - and not as a result of roaming the land or dungeons.

Radiant quests in Skyrim are just procedurally generated filler crap - and they don't represent the exploration experience that we're referring to.

Essentially, it's about your appetite and what you enjoy - but there's simply no comparison between Skyrim/FO4 and Witcher 3 when it comes to freeform exploration.

In that same way, there's no comparison when it comes to the narrative or the quality of writing and presentation.

These games are so different that I don't think comparing them directly would be doing them justice.

If you mean there's no comparison because they're very different, then yeah.

I think that if you're more the loot-driven type, TW3 is definitely inferior because the loot system sucks in that game. Personally, I'm not as driven by loot as most so that didn't bother me as much. I also liked that the world was laid out in a way that seemed more realistic than most open-world games.

That said, I hope CDPR does a much better job with the loot system going forward.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I agree those are redundant, but there are enough handcrafted side-quests in TW3 that the PoI events aren't needed content-wise.

The quest design in TW3 is actually very repetitive.

Originally Posted by Silver Coin
The quest design in any game that's not PoE II is actually very repetitive.

Damn…you're right bro. I forgot.

Originally Posted by JDR13
If you mean there's no comparison because they're very different, then yeah.

I think that if you're more the loot-driven type, TW3 is definitely inferior because the loot system sucks in that game. Personally, I'm not as driven by loot as most so that didn't bother me as much. I also liked that the world was laid out in a way that seemed more realistic than most open-world games.

That said, I hope CDPR does a much better job with the loot system going forward.

I'm very progression oriented, and I think the loot, the combat, and the skill system in W3 are terrible for that kind of experience.

However, I'm also a big dungeon exploration guy - so that's another reason I didn't enjoy exploration in W3 as it has very few dungeons - and they're really boring in terms of what you find in them.

But, yeah, I think we agree overall - more or less.

Different appetites is all.

I get what @Darth Tagnan and @sakichop is saying. Its not the POI or the stuff but its the "pattern" of the game. Each zone/area has a pattern and you are expected to repeat this pattern. Same issues with DAI. When you see the pattern, you see the game and not the world. Since more games are designed around this pattern, quickly you spot it in other games too. This basically breaks immersion. So when you run into the 10th bandit camp or astrology puzzle, you are feeling "fuck not this again!"

This is why Gothic/Risen/Elex games are great. There is no "pattern" to the world which you are expected to repeat. The world feels organic and not designed.

I enjoyed AC Origins. It looked very pretty and I didn't find the combat all that easy and got decent good 40 hours out of it and then got bored and gave up! I din't bother with more than half of the zones in game as as spotted pattern early and was bored after it!

Originally Posted by lostforever
I get what @Darth Tagnan and @sakichop is saying. Its not the POI or the stuff but its the "pattern" of the game. Each zone/area has a pattern and you are expected to repeat this pattern. Same issues with DAI. When you see the pattern, you see the game and not the world. Since more games are designed around this pattern, quickly you spot it in other games too. This basically breaks immersion. So when you run into the 10th bandit camp or astrology puzzle, you are feeling "fuck not this again!"

I don't think TW3 and DA:I are very comparable in that way.

With DA:I (and ME:A), you're talking about the majority of side-content in general being like that. The PoI events in TW3 are just events that dot the map here and there and aren't particularly dense. They exist in addition to the side content, they don't represent the core of it. The meat of the quests in TW3 are those you that are given to you by NPCs and the contract quests.

Also, TW3 doesn't have a bunch of zones/areas in the same way as DA:I. It's basically just two large regions - Velen/Novigrad and Skellige.

I'm not saying TW3 doesn't have repetition. I just don't think it's anywhere near the same level as DA:I or ME:A in that way. I can't comment on AC:O as I haven't played it yet, but I'm hoping to check it out in the near future.