|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Cyberpunk 2077 - Everything Wrong With the Demo

Default Cyberpunk 2077 - Everything Wrong With the Demo

September 10th, 2018, 19:07
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
(..) However, I don't agree with this guy in the case of Cyberpunk, I found V to be very attractive in the trailers!
I found V very attractive too.

Also, from the article: "(…) regarding the character, ‘V’ is a reprehensible sociopath. This character kills indiscriminately, doesn’t seem to have any moral compass, and is like a typical criminal from Grand Theft Auto V. "

Hahahaha. As the writer says (a lot) in the article, "Bullcrap!" We can see from the demo V is a mercenary-type, she isn't meant to be a hero-by-the-book. Please, go play some DOOM, go play Far Cry. Now what? A cyberpunk main character with crisis of conscience? V is a Lawful-Good Hacker 5/Tyr's Paladin 15?

Additionally, we've been told that we can choose a non-violent approach when retrieving the drone from the Maelstrom gang, for example. And I firmly believe there are other quests where we can also choose such approach, if we want to. Dear article's writer, upon game release, be my guest and take the non-violent path. Don't transform V into another killing machine.

Also, the writer criticizes the gameplay shown in the demo. Well, CDPR never said us the game will be revolutionary. And maybe it won't. Evolution happens in small steps, not in huge leaps. That's not to say the writer hasn't reason when criticizing the gameplay, I give him that. He has some good points when doing that, but if he's putting a lot of expectations on the gameplay aspect… I believe he'll be surely disappointed. Maybe because I personally don't expect a huge improvement on the current gameplay standards as we know it. Of course, if such improvement happens, I'll be more than happy.

My 2 cents!!!
--
Sou tricolor de coração!

Sie sind das Essen und Wir sind die Jäger!
Last edited by henriquejr; September 11th, 2018 at 03:28. Reason: Small typo fix
henriquejr is offline

henriquejr

henriquejr's Avatar
SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#41

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Brasil
Posts: 1,752
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 19:20
She certainly has a nice ass, but a visit to the local hair stylist wouldn't hurt.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#42

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,883
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 19:25
As expected. If the hype built around that product resulted from the account of journalists, people would have screamed sold out.

It was built by video makers so it had to be a faithful account.

Yet it did not take much to keep expectations low and the product unsurprisingly was revealed to be poor.

As long as they deliver on the empowerment feel, no doubt that this product will be defended as one of the best ever.
--
Backlog:0
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#43

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,268
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 19:29
Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
Evolution happens in small steps, not in huge leaps.
No. Evolution happens as it happens. It can be in many step dimension, huge or small.
That's not to say the writer hasn't reason when criticizing the gameplay, I give him that. He has some good points when doing that, but if he's putting a lot of expectations on the gameplay aspect…
It was written on the walls this product would be another no gameplay product.
Thing is that it was sold by the favoured as having a FPS dimension so good you forget it is a RPG.

Tells everything about how good the RPG side is.
--
Backlog:0
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#44

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,268
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 19:29
What a singular combination of past and present tense.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#45

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,883
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 19:48
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
No. Evolution happens as it happens. It can be in many step dimension, huge or small.
ChienAboyeur, I don't think gameplay evolution may occur in large steps. And specifically speaking, I don't believe CP 2007 gameplay evolution will happen in large steps. Maybe, who knows, in the graphic aspect it will happen. But gameplay-wise, I don't believe in a huge step forward.
--
Sou tricolor de coração!

Sie sind das Essen und Wir sind die Jäger!
henriquejr is offline

henriquejr

henriquejr's Avatar
SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#46

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Brasil
Posts: 1,752
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 20:05
Ok, after reading the article, it was way overboard. I'm also sensitive to sjw influences in a game, and while I see a little bit of that influence within the demo, it's nothing like the nightmare that this article describes. Jesus, this guy must have overdosed on watching sjw type videos on YouTube if he is seeing all these things in the demo that are mostly his imagination. At any rate, I don't see it like he is seeing it in the article… His article is actually kinda hysterical, in tone, to be honest.

Or he doesn't really understand what sjw-ism is about. You can have a "degenerate" character in a game without it being sjw inspired or influenced, for example. On the other hand, a person could have the cleanest living type of lifestyle and live a pure monk-like existence, and still be an sjw, for instance, in the way they think.
--
To check out my games library, and see what recent games I'm playing, visit my steam profile! -- http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197982351404
Last edited by Arkadia7; September 10th, 2018 at 20:15.
Arkadia7 is offline

Arkadia7

Arkadia7's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch
Original Sin 2 Donor

#47

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Pacific NorthWest, USA!
Posts: 1,300
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 21:34
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
Jesus, this guy must have overdosed on watching sjw type videos on YouTube if he is seeing all these things in the demo that are mostly his imagination. At any rate, I don't see it like he is seeing it in the article… His article is actually kinda hysterical, in tone, to be honest.
The man is crazy, he sees a SJW agenda in every corner of the game. Maybe I'm being too dumb, but I really haven't noticed that. And I don't believe CDPR would put or promote any type of agenda in CP 2077. And by believing in this I may be, again, being too dumb.
--
Sou tricolor de coração!

Sie sind das Essen und Wir sind die Jäger!
henriquejr is offline

henriquejr

henriquejr's Avatar
SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#48

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Brasil
Posts: 1,752
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 21:39
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
snip
Subjective bias affect how anyone rates the game and that also includes you.

For one, I can easily say, for all the talk about rationality and objectivity, you are very overlooking of many flaws with Bethesda games and quickly rush to their defense when anyone criticizes them, usually involving some perceived intended, "hidden agenda" on the other side.

Such as their UI design. Or low quality voice acting. And animation quality and sound design, across the board. Or poor technical performance and stability. Or poorly structured, balanced, implemented progression system consisting only of adding mostly passive "perks/buffs" which player can max far too quickly. Or very weak, point A->B quest design, with very little narrative and gameplay complexity, from start to end. Or poor main story and worldbuilding. And very, very few ( if any ) well written npcs and dialogue. Or very little impactfull choices and consequences. Or very few locations in the world actually offering interesting, unique, non recycled content to discover. Or generally very weak gameplay, with almost non existent hit feedback ( due to outdated engine and physics), poor AI, encounter design or interesting boss battles/enemies.
And many, many other things I could mention here.
People are certainly not installing hundreds of mods, and waste awful lot of time trying to improve the game risking ( already shaky) game performance to fix issues they're only "pretending" they exist.

CDPR games are certainly not without problems, but public and critic reception don't lie here: they are improving and becoming more ambitious with each game, usually expanding what they previously didn't do as well ( or at all) ( and imo, less wide, but much higher quality across the board next to Bethesda).
This trend is pretty obvious going from Witcher 1 to last expansion. So it's definitely within "possible" they could make the same "leap" here.

My N1 concern here was how they'll handle itemization and gunplay but they definitely did better than I expected, espec on first attempt.
--
Rush in and die, dogs…I was a man before I was a king.
Last edited by BoboTheMighty; September 10th, 2018 at 21:50.
BoboTheMighty is offline

BoboTheMighty

BoboTheMighty's Avatar
SasqWatch

#49

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Croatia
Posts: 3,716
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 21:51
Darth doesn't get as biased or emotionally invested in things as the rest of us. You didn't know that?

At least he tries quite hard to convince people of that.
JDR13 is online now

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#50

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 25,374
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 22:24
Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
The man is crazy, he sees a SJW agenda in every corner of the game. Maybe I'm being too dumb, but I really haven't noticed that. And I don't believe CDPR would put or promote any type of agenda in CP 2077. And by believing in this I may be, again, being too dumb.
I don't believe CDPR will promote any SJW agenda in CP 2077 however they are affected by it. They will remove certain elements from the game so that the SJWs are not pissed off on twitter etc. For example, you will never see the sex cards from the Witcher 1 ever again in any CDPR games.
lostforever is offline

lostforever

lostforever's Avatar
SasqWatch

#51

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)

Default 

September 10th, 2018, 22:26
I got about half way through the article and eventually had to close the page. It seemed to focus more on the political culture surrounding modern gaming, in that the writer drew similarities with V based on their experience with "SJWs", which may or may not be much.

I'd hardly say CDPR designed V the way they did because "it's meant to please the SJWs". V having half her head shaved doesn't automatically infer that it has anything to do with SJWs, no matter how much the writer probably wants to believe that is the case.

At no point during that trailer did I think that Cyberpunk 2077 was catering to anyone other than gamers.

He made a few good points, at least up to where I closed the page, but everything else was largely unnecessary.

Incidentally, the word "degenerate" was used a few too many times for my taste, and was equally unnecessary.
--
~Watching since 2007~
Ragnaris is offline

Ragnaris

Ragnaris's Avatar
Sentinel

#52

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California, USA
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 03:06
I knew that this news will be good bait for debaters when I send it to Silver…


--
----------------------------------------------------------------
New videos of RPGs/story-driven games (+ENG subtitles):
https://www.youtube.com/user/Rastm4N/videos
Farflame is offline

Farflame

Farflame's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#53

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ferdok in Aventuria (Europe)
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 04:12
Originally Posted by Farflame View Post
I knew that this news will be good bait for debaters when I send it to Silver…
Yeah but I beat both of you as I posted first on the forums.

Link - https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/show…&postcount=102

Apparently most members don't read the forums. Just the front-page news.
--
"Praise be to the gaming gods and their holy avatar CD Projekt" - Couchpotato

Check out my RPG News Thread usually updated daily.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
CD Projekt Fanboy

#54

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 19,059
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 05:30
Wow, that's one seriously angry gamer that the demo didn't have a hot chick in a bustier with robot arms on a Blade Runner backdrop.
Capt. Huggy Face is offline

Capt. Huggy Face

Capt. Huggy Face's Avatar
Aging Gamer
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#55

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,551
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 10:05
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
Subjective bias affect how anyone rates the game and that also includes you.
Again, I never claimed I wasn't biased. I claimed I'm better at keeping it under control.

Not a big deal.

From the age of 11 to ~16 - I was subject to psychological torture from someone I loved and admired very much.

Now, that was not a very pleasant part of my life - but I eventually came out of it, and while the overall result is probably not that great, I did learn a few things.

It's sort of like having your heart broken over and over again - for years.

Eventually, you learn to suppress your emotions and while your mind is quick to realise that it's probably not the smartest choice to invest yourself in someone who's actively enjoying having that kind of power over you on an emotional level, it takes a long time for your emotions to follow and adapt.

Eventually, though, they did.

This has a few positive side-effects - and a few very bad ones.

One positive side effect is that I'm capable of setting aside my emotions in a variety of situations, where most people have a harder time with it.

It's especially easy during "trivial conflicts" - like a discussion or a debate.

Whether you believe it or not - I'm extremely good at not investing my emotions when I exchange with people I disagree with.

However, it doesn't mean I don't have those emotions and it doesn't mean I don't actually care. It just means they're not actively interfering when I exchange - and it means they're not very prominent for me when it comes to the bias factor, which is really just about emotional prejudice.

That's all it is, really.

For one, I can easily say, for all the talk about rationality and objectivity, you are very overlooking of many flaws with Bethesda games and quickly rush to their defense when anyone criticizes them, usually involving some perceived intended, "hidden agenda" on the other side.
That sounds like a bit of a fantasy.

But I don't think I've ever claimed that I don't have preferences or subjective tastes.

Once again, I'm just better at keeping my bias in check - and it's easier to be objective insofar as not letting my own personal preferences get in the way of seeing things from the other side of the table.

Such as their UI design. Or low quality voice acting. And animation quality and sound design, across the board. Or poor technical performance and stability. Or poorly structured, balanced, implemented progression system consisting only of adding mostly passive "perks/buffs" which player can max far too quickly. Or very weak, point A->B quest design, with very little narrative and gameplay complexity, from start to end. Or poor main story and worldbuilding. And very, very few ( if any ) well written npcs and dialogue. Or very little impactfull choices and consequences. Or very few locations in the world actually offering interesting, unique, non recycled content to discover. Or generally very weak gameplay, with almost non existent hit feedback ( due to outdated engine and physics), poor AI, encounter design or interesting boss battles/enemies.
Actually, I think I've been very open about most of those things. I agree with many of them.

Not all of them, though.

But that has nothing to do with objectivity or emotional prejudice. That would be subjective preferences. I've never claimed I don't have those.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with you about all aspects of all games, now does it?

And many, many other things I could mention here.
People are certainly not installing hundreds of mods, and waste awful lot of time trying to improve the game risking ( already shaky) game performance to fix issues they're only "pretending" they exist.
Again, I've been very open about using many mods for that particular reason.

I don't know why you have this fantasy of me thinking everything is great in Bethsoft games. I certainly don't think so.

I think they're extremely good in a few specific areas that I just happen to really enjoy - much more so than other aspects of other games.

That doesn't mean they're flawless.

Essentially, your struggle to accept that I'm not what you think I am comes down to your ego and your competitive nature. It's not unlike JDR - and you two are a little alike in that way.

You both have tremendous egos and you're both very competitive. That's why you will always try to "defend your team" and you will always try to "win".

But there's no victory here - because I'm not actually "the other team".

There's no match you can win. I can't be defeated - because I'm not competing.

I'm sorry, but there it is

CDPR games are certainly not without problems, but public and critic reception don't lie here: they are improving and becoming more ambitious with each game, usually expanding what they previously didn't do as well ( or at all) ( and imo, less wide, but much higher quality across the board next to Bethesda).
This trend is pretty obvious going from Witcher 1 to last expansion. So it's definitely within "possible" they could make the same "leap" here.
Well, I think they're improving in some areas - and less so in other areas.

I haven't played the latest expansions - but I think Witcher 2 is their best game overall.

I also think the first Witcher was better in certain ways than both Witcher 2 and Witcher 3. One way would be the alchemy - and I actually think progression was better in the first game - though it's pretty bad in all Witcher games.

My N1 concern here was how they'll handle itemization and gunplay but they definitely did better than I expected, espec on first attempt.
As I said, I think CDPR are crap when it comes to the finer points of gameplay.

But that would be for the things I care about.

Bethsoft are definitely crap in some of those ways - as well, just so you know that it's not a black and white thing for me.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#56

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,883
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 12:34
Darth, if you don't let emotional investment get the better of you, why have you closed and reopened your account multiple times? It seems, to me, that those are pretty clear signs of emotional burn out, as, I recall, you're always very engaged in defending your points, to the level rage quits are necessary.

Just a reflection, no offense intended.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Again, I never claimed I wasn't biased. I claimed I'm better at keeping it under control.
arthureloi is offline

arthureloi

arthureloi's Avatar
Visionary Vampire

#57

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nosgoth
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 12:52
Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
ChienAboyeur, I don't think gameplay evolution may occur in large steps. And specifically speaking, I don't believe CP 2007 gameplay evolution will happen in large steps. Maybe, who knows, in the graphic aspect it will happen. But gameplay-wise, I don't believe in a huge step forward.
For sure. This product shows no sign in evolution gameplaywise, small or large steps. Just redoing what has already been done.

Games have shown that evolution can happen in large steps.

Not the topic as this products provides nothing of an evolution.



Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
The man is crazy, he sees a SJW agenda in every corner of the game. Maybe I'm being too dumb, but I really haven't noticed that. And I don't believe CDPR would put or promote any type of agenda in CP 2077. And by believing in this I may be, again, being too dumb.
The article places its arguments. It also refers to MEA scandals.

Maybe time to tell this guy things are the way they are because of references to historical Poland.

By the way, the goods news is that so far from the demo, it can be told that the engine does not support black skins as they can be. Only black skins with red undertones.

Originally Posted by Ragnaris View Post

At no point during that trailer did I think that Cyberpunk 2077 was catering to anyone other than gamers.
So releasing a product low on gameplay is catering to anyone other than gamers.

This product undubiously caters to storytolders and their addiction to representations, as shown by the controversies already in.

Even by their standards, gameplay is deemed weak.

Cant cater to gamers when releasing such a product devoid of gameplay.
--
Backlog:0
ChienAboyeur is offline

ChienAboyeur

SasqWatch

#58

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,268
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 12:56
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
Darth, if you don't let emotional investment get the better of you, why have you closed and reopened your account multiple times? It seems, to me, that those are pretty clear signs of emotional burn out, as, I recall, you're always very engaged in defending your points, to the level rage quits are necessary.

Just a reflection, no offense intended.
I've never said I don't have emotions or that I'm beyond their influence. It's actually BECAUSE I'm a very sensitive person that I've had to suppress my emotions to this extent - or I'd literally break down.

I'm specifically talking about bias and about the ability to remain (reasonably) objective during an exchange, because my emotions aren't a big part of it.

But I'm also compulsive in terms of seeking closure. That's not because I'm emotionally invested in the topic - but in about reaching some kind of understanding with the people that are a part of the exchange.

It's a form of OCD - which I suffer from, to a relatively mild degree.

I won't go into the deeper psychological aspects of obsession and compulsion - but think of it like this:

You leave your home - and you suddenly question whether you left the door unlocked or not.

OCD is when you start obsessing over it - and you start going back multiple times to make absolutely sure. It's irrational.

Obviously, you're not "emotionally invested" in the door lock - but you're still invested in figuring out what's true.

For me, leaving an exchange that's unresolved (which is NOT about people agreeing with me in any way, shape or form - but about closure) - is almost EXACTLY like leaving home feeling like I might have left the door unlocked.

I guess you could call it a mental investment - and a very significant one at that. It's a disorder - which is why people who don't have it don't understand it. It's probably why you think I must be emotionally invested - because that's the only way my actions make sense to you.

Of course, at the root of OCD and any form of anxiety is unresolved emotional trauma (mild or severe) - often from the distant past. But that's another matter.

Eventually, my mind is exhausted with the waste - and, most of all, it's just extremely time consuming and utterly, utterly worthless if you look at the time versus reward equation.

Most people don't seem to invest themselves as deeply in articulating the finer points of games or whatever the topic may be. They seem content to just fire off a few remarks here and there - and be done with it.

Most exchanges around here seem to be highly cyclical - based on ego-driven desires to "win" or be "right" - and it's rare that long exchanges deal with people trying to understand each other - and make room for differences. As in, actually listening to each other.

I'm guilty of that myself, for sure.

The reason I've returned isn't actually that I've missed it all that much. It's that I want to overcome this obsession - and I'm getting better at it all the time.

Call it an experiment in self-improvement

I've actually managed to overcome anxiety in the same way. Through what the professionals call exposure and response prevention.

So, that's the explanation.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#59

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,883
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)

Default 

September 11th, 2018, 13:01
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
I've never said I don't have emotions or that I'm beyond their influence. It's actually BECAUSE I'm a very sensitive person that I've had to suppress my emotions to this extent - or I'd literally break down.

I'm specifically talking about bias and about the ability to remain (reasonably) objective during an exchange, because my emotions aren't a big part of it.

But I'm also compulsive in terms of seeking closure. That's not because I'm emotionally invested in the topic - but in about reaching some kind of understanding with the people that are a part of the exchange.

It's a form of OCD - which I suffer from, to a relatively mild degree.

I won't go into the deeper psychological aspects of obsession and compulsion - but think of it like this:

You leave your home - and you suddenly question whether you left the door unlocked or not.

OCD is when you start obsessing over it.

Obviously, you're not "emotionally invested" in the door lock - but you're still invested in figuring out what's true.

For me, leaving an exchange that's unresolved (which is NOT about people agreeing with me in any way, shape or form - but about closure) - is almost EXACTLY like leaving home feeling like I might have left the door unlocked.

I guess you could call it a mental investment - and a very significant one at that. It's a disorder - which is why people who don't have it don't understand it. It's probably why you think I must be emotionally invested - because that's the only way my actions make sense to you.

Of course, at the root of OCD and any form of anxiety is unresolved emotional trauma (mild or severe) - often from the distant past. But that's another matter.

Eventually, my mind is exhausted with the waste - and, most of all, it's just extremely time consuming and utterly, utterly worthless if you look at the time versus reward equation.

Most people don't seem to invest themselves as deeply in articulating the finer points of games or whatever the topic may be. They seem content to just fire off a few remarks here and there - and be done with it.

Most exchanges around here seem to be highly cyclical - based on ego-driven desires to "win" or be "right" - and it's rare that long exchanges deal with people trying to understand each other - and make room for differences. As in, actually listening to each other.

I'm guilty of that myself, for sure.

The reason I've returned isn't actually that I've missed it all that much. It's that I want to overcome this obsession - and I'm getting better at it all the time.

Call it an experiment in self-improvement

I've actually managed to overcome anxiety in the same way. Through what the professionals call exposure and response prevention.

So, that's the explanation.
Welcome to RpgWatch Mr Spock
lostforever is offline

lostforever

lostforever's Avatar
SasqWatch

#60

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Cyberpunk 2077 - Everything Wrong With the Demo
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:22.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch