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Default Realms Beyond - Kickstarter Live

October 17th, 2018, 03:26
The kind of game I simply cannot ever have too much of, back immediately, of course!!!
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October 17th, 2018, 03:26
100K? I'm not sure that can cover everything planned. Here's hope it will.
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October 17th, 2018, 03:52
I backed. Then I saw this post on reddit which is concerning

they have pay to license 5e rules for a crpg. i wish them the best but i hope they have lawyers on their side. the ogl does not translate to digital media. you can go watch the paizocon videos where they talk about the legal hurdles concerning kingmaker.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comme…assic/e7wk44g/

Then I fact checked it

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat…e-document-srd
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October 17th, 2018, 03:55
The protection of the open game license does not extend to digital content, and they can be sued by Wizards of the Coast for using the ruleset.
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October 17th, 2018, 04:17
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
I backed. Then I saw this post on reddit which is concerning



https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comme…assic/e7wk44g/

Then I fact checked it

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat…e-document-srd
They're not using 5e, it's 3.5e OGL so I don't think this applies.
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October 17th, 2018, 04:21
My understanding is that the OGL applies to both 3rd and 5th edition D&D.

The developer acknowledges it in the kickstarter comments as well

Thank you! We will look further into 5e and afaik some elements of the 5th are published under the Open Game License as well.
I hope I'm wrong, but my fear is that WoTC could shut them down.
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October 17th, 2018, 04:28
Reminds me of a few things. First, an Ellis Studios game going by the graphics. Some of the textures, terrain art, character art and portraits reminded me of things I saw in a game of theirs called Sacred Blade. Second, it reminded me of that Demons Age game or whatever that was released and quickly pulled off Steam last year I think? That thing was kind of an abomination if I'm being nice about it. The combat and looks are very similar. Finally, the combat looks painfully slow and enemies are too far apart to initiate combat, which also reminds me, funnily enough, of the Ellis Studios gem "Cave of Sorrows" which completely stole a mod for RPGMaker called "The Red Hand of Doom". Enemies in Cave of Sorrows would trigger from way too far away in the dungeon and combat would suffer badly because of it.

P.S. All of Ellis's/Whomever's creations used 3.5 OGL, too, which was my initial reason I was interested in them.

So, I don't think I'll be backing this or playing at launch, unless they really, really surprise me. So, surprise away.
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October 17th, 2018, 04:56
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
Reminds me of a few things. First, an Ellis Studios game going by the graphics. Some of the textures, terrain art, character art and portraits reminded me of things I saw in a game of theirs called Sacred Blade. Second, it reminded me of that Demons Age game or whatever that was released and quickly pulled off Steam last year I think? That thing was kind of an abomination if I'm being nice about it. The combat and looks are very similar. Finally, the combat looks painfully slow and enemies are too far apart to initiate combat, which also reminds me, funnily enough, of the Ellis Studios gem "Cave of Sorrows" which completely stole a mod for RPGMaker called "The Red Hand of Doom". Enemies in Cave of Sorrows would trigger from way too far away in the dungeon and combat would suffer badly because of it.

P.S. All of Ellis's/Whomever's creations used 3.5 OGL, too, which was my initial reason I was interested in them.

So, I don't think I'll be backing this or playing at launch, unless they really, really surprise me. So, surprise away.
The reason it reminds you of Demons Age is that DA used assets from the CRPG "Chaos Chronicles" which was canceled because of a dispute between the developer (Coreplay) and the publisher (BitComposer). DA apparently got a hold of Chaos Chronicles assets through BitComposer but didn't have legal right to use them (which is why DA was eventually removed from Steam. Ceres games (which includes former Coreplay team members) acquired the exclusive rights to art assets which were developed for Chaos Chronicles (but not the rights to the IP / name). So that's the only connection between DA and RB.

As for the supposed similarities between RB and Ellis Studios stuff, I'm just not seeing any beyond using the OGL. But whatever, that's subjective, if you're implying that Ellis Studios is somehow masquerading as a German developer with former Coreplay (which Guido Henkel was also working with) well, that's one hell of a conspiracy theory.
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October 17th, 2018, 05:01
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
The reason it reminds you of Demons Age is that DA used assets from the CRPG "Chaos Chronicles" which was canceled because of a dispute between the developer (Coreplay) and the publisher (BitComposer). DA apparently got a hold of Chaos Chronicles assets through BitComposer but didn't have legal right to use them (which is why DA was eventually removed from Steam. Ceres games (which includes former Coreplay team members) acquired the exclusive rights to art assets which were developed for Chaos Chronicles (but not the rights to the IP / name). So that's the only connection between DA and RB.

As for the supposed similarities between RB and Ellis Studios stuff, I'm just not seeing any beyond using the OGL. But whatever, that's subjective, if you're implying that Ellis Studios is somehow masquerading as a German developer with former Coreplay (which Guido Henkel was also working with) well, that's one hell of a conspiracy theory.
I don't know what's going on, but I know I played Sacred Blade by Ellis and they had an area that looked like that desert with a river in it, and the gnolls, character portraits, camera angle and overall graphics art style look similar to what I remember in Sacred Blade. Hey, if the game turns out good, great. I'm just making notes of what I consider some peculiarities in what I saw in the trailer and pitch. I hope it's good and all legit but it does seem a bit boring at the moment. Combat is too long and it's just very basic 3.5 OGL with Feats we've seen in Kingmaker (and Kingmaker has way more cool ones, too). They need to revamp their combat based on the 30 minute demo I saw (parts of, I couldn't watch the whole thing, it was too slow).

So if we see a game from this let's hope it's worth playing.
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October 17th, 2018, 06:27
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
My understanding is that the OGL applies to both 3rd and 5th edition D&D.

The developer acknowledges it in the kickstarter comments as well



I hope I'm wrong, but my fear is that WoTC could shut them down.
OK, I think I understand the confusion now. Someone posted this in response to that reddit post.

Here's the relevant quote from WoTC FAQ that shows you can in fact use OGL for computer games:

Q: I want to distribute computer software using the OGL. Is that possible?

A: Yes, it's certainly possible. The most significant thing that will impact your effort is that you have to give all the recipients the right to extract and use any Open Game Content you've included in your application, and you have to clearly identify what part of the software is Open Game Content.

One way is to design your application so that all the Open Game Content resides in files that are human-readable (that is, in a format that can be opened and understood by a reasonable person). Another is to have all the data used by the program viewable somehow while the program runs.

Distributing the source code not an acceptable method of compliance. First off, most programming languages are not easy to understand if the user hasnÍt studied the language. Second, the source code is a separate entity from the executable file. The user must have access to the actual Open Content used.
So it seems there should be no legal issue as long as the developer carefully follows the OGL stipulations including making all of the open content in the software in "human-readable format". Ceres plans to do this as outlined here.

Now I think I understand the confusion in regards to the the table you linked which says something about "I want my content considered for inclusion in digital games"… I believe they're actually talking about official D&D licensed games. That is, if you want to design content used in an official D&D game, WoTC will only consider it if you use the "DM Guild", not OGL.
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October 17th, 2018, 06:56
Thanks for the clarification.

I'm not sure what Fluent is thinking comparing the game to Ellis Studios. It's obvious looking at the pitch this isn't some shovelware asset flip, and all it takes is some brief research into Ceres Games and Chaos Chronicles to know the two aren't affiliated.
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October 17th, 2018, 07:12
By the way, the fact that 5e rules are covered under the open games license means that anyone could make a 5e CRPG. There's no reason to use outdated 3rd edition rules.
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October 17th, 2018, 09:55
Well they're certainly ambitious.

In Realms Beyond, you will find the tactical turn-based combat of the Gold Box Games, Temple of Elemental Evil and Dark Sun, the world exploration and camp management of Realms of Arkania, the interactivity and living world of Ultima, the choice-driven quests and reactivity of Fallout and Arcanum, and the rich NPC interaction of Baldur’s Gate and Planescape Torment, along with fresh new features that haven’t been seen before in the genre.
And I laughed out loud at this response by MRY on RPGCodex :

That really is an extraordinary paragraph. That said, I'm disappointed that "the historical realism of Darklands, the vast explorable space of Daggerfall, the intense challenge of Wizardry" and so forth. Feel bad for the games that were left out.
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October 17th, 2018, 10:08
How wonderful! It's the last days of my holiday, I have a nice cup of coffee in my hand and the late October sun is shining. I put on some nice background music and started my read of the (very well-done) KS page.

After the read I'm already in the mood for more and can see this being a notch even above Kingmaker because of more gritty graphics and true turn-based combat. So I did what I haven't done ever before and went full in. In 2020 you will have the pleasure to meet yours truly as a bandit leader (the most notorious, naturally) in the game world!

I hope this makes far more than 100k, so help spread the word!
Also, if the Watch decides to make a community pledge I would also join in!
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October 17th, 2018, 10:19
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
Thanks for the clarification.

I'm not sure what Fluent is thinking comparing the game to Ellis Studios. It's obvious looking at the pitch this isn't some shovelware asset flip, and all it takes is some brief research into Ceres Games and Chaos Chronicles to know the two aren't affiliated.
Dunno what's Fluent's problem with the game is. I still remember the first post about the game on the Watch where he complained about how the Gnolls where portrayed…

Also, it should be well known by now that Ceres acquired art assets from the failed CC (and some team members worked on it, too). I also don't see a problem there. The art is beautiful and deserves a good game, which I have high hopes Ceres will deliver.
Last edited by Darkheart; October 17th, 2018 at 10:52.
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October 17th, 2018, 11:53
Another question from me. Is there a main plot or is this like make your own story as you go type of deal?
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October 17th, 2018, 12:14
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Another question from me. Is there a main plot or is this like make your own story as you go type of deal?
Iirc, each region has its own plot and questline which will lead/contribute to an overall story arc.
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October 17th, 2018, 12:22
Fluent has been on this game and its developers since the first time it was made public. He has made up some conspiracy theory at the time, which he outlined in his post and nothing the developer or anyone else is telling him to contradict his views, is going to convince him that he is wrong.
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October 17th, 2018, 12:36
I have backed this good work, but who is their narrative designer? I thought Guido was involved in this project!
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October 17th, 2018, 12:38
Looking mighty good. Ticks all the right boxes for me, so backed without further ado.

I like the art style. For some reason it reminds me of Divine Divinity.
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