Wasteland 2 - (Don't) Give me that old time RPG Combat @ Joystiq

Hastar · April 1, 2012

Sir_Brennus said:
Mmmh, no. Simply. No.

Never understood what the (limited to the indie niche) fuzz was about.

Bahh you must be a youngster then. Because KoTC has some of the best turn based combat ever. And I have been playing video and computer games since pong

. I have played thru KoTC like 3x and once I made it all the way thru on nightmare mode. Though not the first play thru that would be impossible.

Brother None · April 1, 2012

Nerevarine said:
Never played Wizardry 8 or KoTC, but I wholly agree with the other games mentioned in terms of incredible turn-based combat (especially ToEE and JA2 for me). I would also like to throw an honorable mention/"bronze metal" towards Fallout Tactics. Most FO 1+2 fans dislike the game due to the departure from the FO story and quest formula, but judged on its own merits and from the viewpoint of tactical turn-based combat, it ranks reasonably high on my list - even if it isn't quite on the same level as ToEE or JA2. I've always thought it would be perfect to have Tactics' turn-based combat system with a full party in FO 1+2. Maybe Wasteland 2 can pull off something similar to this .

Dead-on on Tactics, and it's one of the games inXile is looking at closely for ideas on how to do a good party-based TB combat mechanics (there's a few, mostly mentioned in this thread before).

Capt. Huggy Face · April 2, 2012

HiddenX said:
KOTC2 updates can be found here.

Sorry to hijack the thread again, but thanks for the link.

Dhruin said:
He's making an RTS instead, remember? Hence, no updates.

No, I guess I missed that. Sad news for me. Guess I'll have to make sure I play KotC fairly soon then. Put it off in favor of waiting for the sequel. Here's a link with BlueSalamander explaining his plans and how some of the code is shared, so he's sort of getting some work done on KotC2 at the same time:

http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=361

Bummer.

BillSeurer · April 2, 2012

For all their overall greatness the combat system of FO1/2 was one of their weak points. Seriously. For example...

Eventually it just became aim for the eye, aim for the eye, aim for the eye, ..., it should have just been the default. NPCs were more dangerous to you than the foes. Ranges were so short it was laughable.

Biff The Understudy · April 2, 2012

Personally i am hoping for the Pst / Iwd 1-2 / Bg 1-2 approach to combat as it gives you the best of both worlds.
You can have all the tactical depth of a turn by turn system while not being forced to pause the game every time a rat runs by or having to select and target every arrow.
There is also no reason a v.a.t.s type system could not work on this combat model.

fadedc · April 2, 2012

Yeah I actually think that many of the best old school games also had the worst combat. Fallout, Arcanum, Planescape Torment....It's a good thing they had such great stories, choice or customization because if they had to rely on their combat systems they would have been total flops.

BillSeurer said:
For all their overall greatness the combat system of FO1/2 was one of their weak points. Seriously. For example…

Eventually it just became aim for the eye, aim for the eye, aim for the eye, …, it should have just been the default. NPCs were more dangerous to you than the foes. Ranges were so short it was laughable.

Unrestigered · April 3, 2012

Demiath said:
I'm not sure what argument Rowan Kaiser is trying to make, but provided he has any point at all it would seem to be an exceedingly narrow one. At the end of the article he votes for Wizardry 8-style combat, which in fact sticks very close to the "menu-based" formula of early M&M and Wasteland that he spends all his previous paragraphs bemoaning. If there's some impenetrable chasm between the combat systems of Wasteland and Wizardry 8 (other than party movement…which if anything reduces the speed of the combat even further) then Kaiser doesn't make a good case for it. Also, he comes dangerously close to endorsing the conceptually flawed idea that turn-based systems were solely the product of technological limitations which were later overcome and resulted in a shift towards realtime combat.

God bless you for not being a fucking idiot. I salute you.

Also, to everyone stating FO Tactics was a great system, you are nuts. Hybrid TB/RT systems will always be blah and will never be good. Look at the combat in Arcanum. It is combat for children. This game is supposed to be for adults. Compare FOT with a real tactics game and it gets blown out of the water. I guess it is tactical if you are fucking retarded or under 15, but if you are an adult of normal intelligence it is far more of a chore than a challenge.

I agree with Druid on ToEE and KotC, but the RoA trilogy had the best combat I think. Followed by ToEE on Ironman.

HiddenX · April 3, 2012

RoA trilogy, Betrayal at Krondor and Might and Magic have good turn based combat engines, too.

Wasteland 2 - (Don't) Give me that old time RPG Combat @ Joystiq

Hastar

Unspeakable

Brother None

SasqWatch

Capt. Huggy Face

Troll Aspiring to Responsibility

BillSeurer

Eternal Supreme Dictator

Biff The Understudy

Sentinel

fadedc

SasqWatch

Unrestigered

Banned

HiddenX

The Elder Spy