11 o'clock news - the death of Apple

I'd love to hear ... most things with similar quality components, such as Dell XPS and Alienware - are actually more expensive. Most of the ones touting gaming that are cheaper are really ... cheaper .

This one, for example?

[ http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/asus-g50v.aspx ]

My local nerd heaven has it in two configurations, at about 1300 and 1600 € respectively. By the numbers anyway it is specced a good bit higher than the MacBook Pro. I have fairly good experiences with Asus machines; they're not "premium" builds by any means, but neither are they obviously cheaped-out.

(The MacBook Pro 15" is around 1700-2200 €, depending on configuration, in the same store.)
 
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Most of Apple products' profitability is high so you can most likely find quite a few products with better specs. However, personally, I don't need a powerful notebook since I don't play games while traveling. A lighter notebook with longer battery life and a bigger keyboard/screen would be nice. At least, some people seem to agree with me. http://www.appleinsider.com/article...us_pc_market_slips_to_8_at_hands_of_acer.html
 
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This one, for example?

[ http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/asus-g50v.aspx ]

My local nerd heaven has it in two configurations, at about 1300 and 1600 € respectively. By the numbers anyway it is specced a good bit higher than the MacBook Pro. I have fairly good experiences with Asus machines; they're not "premium" builds by any means, but neither are they obviously cheaped-out.

(The MacBook Pro 15" is around 1700-2200 €, depending on configuration, in the same store.)

Exactly - thing is, folks buy based on one or two chips, and there is a lot more to overall performance. I have found that since the 'Pismo' days the Apple laptops have performed beyond their specs compared to other laptop PC's, as I have noted directly comparing to Dell XPS machines.
 
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They've generally speaking had better controllers, which means there's less waiting around for interrupts and data generally just flows around more smoothly. That's especially important for audio and video, which require streaming high-bandwidth data around the system.

FWIW, my new white MacBook performs generally better than the higher-specced HP it replaced... except for some things requiring raw horsepower; a build that took about 90 seconds on the HP takes about 120 on the Mac. But it feels more responsive, stalls and stutters much less, opens apps faster, and so on.
 
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Nowadays, it is on Intel chips and Linux-originated OS...so, I wonder how much difference it has compared with well-built PC laptops... I tend to think that the design fee is included in the price of Apple products. Considering that the lifespan of notebooks, I tend to go for less expensive products with better specs and reputations. That said, quite many people sell Apple products after using it one year and replace it with the next Apple product, which saves up some money. If you buy 2000€ laptop and sell it 1000€, for example, you only spend 1000€ per an year except, of course, the initial year. The clever part of this is that you can make use of the expense for the design /brand fee, you name it as you like, when you are selling. Whether you think this is still expensive or not depends on how much money you are willing to spend on your computers, though. Also, you probably want to make sure to wipe out personal data before selling.

In my personal case, it's not justifiable for my usage of computers since I don't play many games nor do design works especially when I am out.
 
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That said, quite many people sell Apple products after using it one year and replace it with the next Apple product, which saves up some money.

Absolutely - and the Mac holds value *much* better than anything else. Heck, I funded a good chunk of my latest by grabbing >$1000 on a 2-generation old MBP ... the equiv Dell (XPSM1710) I bought around the same time was worth less than $500, so it is the kids now ...
 
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Yeah, I just looked at the prices used Macs are fetching on our local version of eBay, and it was quite surprising. Even G4 Macs are selling for real money.
 
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Problem is not really the laptops, but desktops. The main difference between a Mac and a 'PC' is that you can't change components in a Mac as you can in a PC. Most laptops (Mac or PC) don't allow you to change much other than adding memory, so the strong point about PCs is diminished.
When talking desktops though, I would not buy a Mac. It's way overpriced and restricted in many ways. Let's face it, when you buy Mac you're paying the 'Apple tax'. A Mac computer may be 10% better than a similarly built PC, but it costs over 50% more (and forget about upgrading your video card 1 or 2 years later, or adding a better sound card, a bluray burner, etc. for Macs it either comes with it or it doesn't... it's time to buy a new one)
 
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They're nowhere near "over 50% more" than comparable PC's, even ones that you build yourself. For kicks, I recreated the standard Mac Pro configuration that sells for about 2500 euros with high-quality components that I'd use myself, should I build one -- and the total was... 2850 euros.

As to the all-in-one Macs, as txa pointed out, since Macs hold their value better, you can "upgrade" simply by selling your old one and buying a new one. The cost differential is in the same ballpark as selling your old PC components and buying new ones.

That said, I wouldn't buy a Mac desktop either: the Mac Pros are way, way OTT for my needs (I really don't need eight cores!), and I have a very good monitor that I don't want to downgrade to an iMac (and I don't have the space nor the need for two 24" ones).
 
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They're nowhere near "over 50% more" than comparable PC's, even ones that you build yourself. For kicks, I recreated the standard Mac Pro configuration that sells for about 2500 euros with high-quality components that I'd use myself, should I build one -- and the total was... 2850 euros.

As to the all-in-one Macs, as txa pointed out, since Macs hold their value better, you can "upgrade" simply by selling your old one and buying a new one. The cost differential is in the same ballpark as selling your old PC components and buying new ones.

That said, I wouldn't buy a Mac desktop either: the Mac Pros are way, way OTT for my needs (I really don't need eight cores!), and I have a very good monitor that I don't want to downgrade to an iMac (and I don't have the space nor the need for two 24" ones).

Maybe it's different in Europe. I can buy a good Dell computer for $1100, the equivalent Mac is about $1500. If I went and built a computer myself (something I believe you just can't do for Macs) it would have been about $800. 2 years from now I can open the computer, pull the video card and throw it away, and for $120 I can upgrade the video performance 50%. For a Mac you have to buy a new one, try to sell the old one on ebay or craigslist see if some fool would buy an already old computer that can't be upgraded.

A Mac is not the 'BMW of computers' anymore. They use same generic parts everybody else uses. The only real difference is the OS, and they know that, that's why they refuse to let anybody put their OS in other hardware, it would kill their golden egg hen.
 
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Maybe it's different in Europe. I can buy a good Dell computer for $1100, the equivalent Mac is about $1500.

I don't believe you. Prove it: show me the numbers.

I just tried recreating the base Mac Pro configuration on Dell's pages, and ended up well over 3000 €. The prices here are more or less the same as in the US, after accounting for differences in VAT.

Then I tried recreating an iMac configuration on Dell, and ended up at about 1,400 €. The equivalent iMac was about 1,500 €.

If I went and built a computer myself (something I believe you just can't do for Macs) it would have been about $800. 2 years from now I can open the computer, pull the video card and throw it away, and for $120 I can upgrade the video performance 50%. For a Mac you have to buy a new one, try to sell the old one on ebay or craigslist see if some fool would buy an already old computer that can't be upgraded.

But that's it right there -- there are plenty of those "fools" around, when it comes to Macs: as txa said, they retain their value much better, making upgrading by swapping a perfectly viable alternative economically. Of course, if you *want* to tinker with hardware (I do, for the record), that's not an option -- but that's a matter of personal preference, not money.

IOW, if you don't *like* Macs, think Mac-heads are snotty stupid non-technical peons or whatever, that's one thing -- but your stated reasons for thinking Macs don't make the grade just aren't true.

A Mac is not the 'BMW of computers' anymore. They use same generic parts everybody else uses. The only real difference is the OS, and they know that, that's why they refuse to let anybody put their OS in other hardware, it would kill their golden egg hen.

There are hardware differences too, but on the whole you're right: they do use off-the-shelf parts. However, they use considerably better off-the-shelf parts than Dell, HP, or the other box movers. Just look inside one, you'll see.
 
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I haven't had a Mac desktop in ... jeez, I can't recall how long - and wouldn't for the reasons stated. However, my desire to build my own, compile my own kernel, assemble my own thunks to use old DLL's and so on is all long since past. I want Mac and PC systems that run my stuff ... fast. And go with me.
 
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I don't believe you. Prove it: show me the numbers.

I just tried recreating the base Mac Pro configuration on Dell's pages, and ended up well over 3000 €. The prices here are more or less the same as in the US, after accounting for differences in VAT.

Then I tried recreating an iMac configuration on Dell, and ended up at about 1,400 €. The equivalent iMac was about 1,500 €.

Ok, I selected an Imac 20" 2GB RAM, 500GB HD and 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo. Price: $1550. I selected a Dell with 20" monitor, 500GB HD, 2GB RAM and 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo. Price: $750 (both had free shipping)
 
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Weird, the Mac's a good deal more expensive and the Dell is a good deal less expensive than we get here. Perhaps you're right; the prices are different on this side of the pond.
 
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