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Default Jedi Fallen Order - a "new hope" after Order 66

November 15th, 2019, 21:59
What do you think about new SW SINGLE PLAYER game with no MT scam?

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Dev video about exploration, the hero etc. + few fights (its in english with some subs):

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For Joxer: it doesnt look like MMO, but who knows…?
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November 15th, 2019, 22:22
For me?

Um, I don't think it's mmo… Is it?
It's trashmobs respawning grinder. Dragon Dogma 2. With some platforming. Skippit.

Not sure about order 66, the only Order product I remember was Order 1886, now that's a game to recommend. To your worst enemies.
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November 15th, 2019, 23:48
Well the other StarWars game cancelled by EA last year was larger, and had RPG elements. Guess all I can say it's nice to finally see a SP StarWars again.
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November 16th, 2019, 21:54
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Well the other StarWars game cancelled by EA last year was larger, and had RPG elements. Guess all I can say it's nice to finally see a SP StarWars again.
This game has RPG elements too - you get skills from a skill tree. Its said in the second longer video with devs. The other cancelled game had the same basic mechanics - action adventure like Uncharted.


Originally Posted by Joxer
Um, I don't think it's mmo… Is it?
I think its not, but your definition of MMO is pretty flexible.


Originally Posted by Joxer
It's trashmobs respawning grinder. Dragon Dogma 2. With some platforming.
It doesnt look like grinder with fast respawns… There is a lot of climbing and platforming and some special sequences (like "avoid being shot by smaller TIE fighter").
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November 17th, 2019, 00:34
Seeing it associated with Dark Souls completely killed it for me.
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November 17th, 2019, 11:07
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
Seeing it associated with Dark Souls completely killed it for me.
That kind of reports mostly comes from people hailing from countries that have historically failed to acknowledge commonalities among human beings.

If they follow their suit of seeing this game as a DS clone, they would have reached a long time ago the point of considering great apes as human beings.

Years ago, on this site, a piece was written on Ryse, son of Rome, a product that despite a failed reception, was described as setting a template for years to come.

This product is not DS like. It builds on the template provided by Ryse, son of Rome.
A pop corn product, a week end product meant for people who desire to kick back before their next week of work. Fifteen-seventeen hours shortest lifespan, progression is not hindered, the opposite etc

Once again, those reports about it being a DS clone come from people hailing from countries with a historical record at managing to dismiss all the commonalities between human beings to focus on any difference to assert the point that some are human beings, others are not.

The result of two centuries of double standards, just as they are able to focus on marginal differences to exclude, they are able to focus on marginal differences to include.

This product has swords and ponchos in it, then it is DS like.
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November 17th, 2019, 14:00
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
That kind of reports mostly comes from people hailing from countries that have historically failed to acknowledge commonalities among human beings.

If they follow their suit of seeing this game as a DS clone, they would have reached a long time ago the point of considering great apes as human beings.

Years ago, on this site, a piece was written on Ryse, son of Rome, a product that despite a failed reception, was described as setting a template for years to come.

This product is not DS like. It builds on the template provided by Ryse, son of Rome.
A pop corn product, a week end product meant for people who desire to kick back before their next week of work. Fifteen-seventeen hours shortest lifespan, progression is not hindered, the opposite etc

Once again, those reports about it being a DS clone come from people hailing from countries with a historical record at managing to dismiss all the commonalities between human beings to focus on any difference to assert the point that some are human beings, others are not.

The result of two centuries of double standards, just as they are able to focus on marginal differences to exclude, they are able to focus on marginal differences to include.

This product has swords and ponchos in it, then it is DS like.
Funny how by reducing silimarities between Fallen Order and DS to ponchos and swords, you do same thing you are criticising in same post. Dont worry, that is usual fallacy used to prove your point, nothing new here.
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November 17th, 2019, 14:20
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
Funny how by reducing silimarities between Fallen Order and DS to ponchos and swords, you do same thing you are criticising in same post. Dont worry, that is usual fallacy used to prove your point, nothing new here.
For doing the same thing, it must be thought that this product is a DS like. Not the case.

Players have already pushed their lack of arguments to claim this product as a DS like. Reproducing them is unneeded. And there is probably no one who has pushed the combo ponchos plus swords before.


No use for fallacy. Fallacies are left to others. Superior minded people. Simple minded people do not have the intellect to use them. Just as they fail to perceive this product as a DS like. They can not even produce a lack of arguments the same quality as superior minded people can: ponchos and swords.
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November 17th, 2019, 19:44
A true point @ChienAboyeur although I was being facetious to some degree as the game isn't my usual style to begin with.

But aye I agree that just because someone associates game X with game Y doesn't actually mean they are the same or that the similarities are anything except surface deep.

If I were more interested in the game I would dig into it more. It is less DS and more things I dislike in a game in general terms (meaning not just this game)

- Restricted saves almost always a game killer for me. Can't think of any game I have played that had restricted saves outside of an MMO which saves all the time (relatively speaking)
- Twitch combat where the combat depends on you player skill and hand/eye coordination … as I have next to none.
- Any combat that is building off other combat moves. I.e. do X then in Y seconds while A is blinking do Z. Or When you do A, and a follower does B, and the enemy is in a state of C, then do D. Uggg! I hate stuff like that.
- Grinding for levels
- Battles that drag out endlessly because of HP sponges (like some mobs in Dragon Dogma or many MMO games)

Maybe JFO isn't like any of those things. I didn't research deeply as I had only passing interest in the game, since I liked the KOTOR games, but had seen a few comments about it being like DS … which as I said was enough to kill my interest.

That being said I still visit forums and news sites and should I see something to refute those claims I may give it a second look. Already got too much to play right now as it is.
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November 18th, 2019, 14:00
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
- Restricted saves almost always a game killer for me. Can't think of any game I have played that had restricted saves outside of an MMO which saves all the time (relatively speaking)
- Twitch combat where the combat depends on you player skill and hand/eye coordination … as I have next to none.
- Any combat that is building off other combat moves. I.e. do X then in Y seconds while A is blinking do Z. Or When you do A, and a follower does B, and the enemy is in a state of C, then do D. Uggg! I hate stuff like that.
- Grinding for levels
- Battles that drag out endlessly because of HP sponges (like some mobs in Dragon Dogma or many MMO games)

Maybe JFO isn't like any of those things. I didn't research deeply as I had only passing interest in the game,
It is not.

It is meant to be played over a week end.

No grinding in it: in DS, it is a cope out for players who cant do otherwise but overlevel a fight. Nothing like that.

Fights are not based on reflexes (like DS) but contrary to DS, they demand little. They are on par as TW3 fights.

The sponge thing might be a thing on the highest level of difficulty. Enemies hit harder and hero less. So it extends a fight, players must be able to last longer.

On easier mode, though, enemies are felled in one big strike.

Annemunition has been streaming the story mode (filthy casual mode)

https://www.twitch.tv/annemunition/videos

She tried to make fights stylish, this explains her failures sometimes.
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November 18th, 2019, 15:48
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
Seeing it associated with Dark Souls completely killed it for me.
Prepare to have any game with melee combat and low penalty for death compared to DS for the next 7 years.
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November 18th, 2019, 16:19
Originally Posted by Wisdom View Post
Prepare to have any game with melee combat and low penalty for death compared to DS for the next 7 years.
Good news for me then.

As I cant stand all the Dark Soul clones getting released.
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November 18th, 2019, 17:22
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Good news for me then.

As I cant stand all the Dark Soul clones getting released.
Haha - seriously! I am honestly neither that good nor that patient with video games that I have ever finished a Dark Souls game. And I don’t find that level of punishment ‘fun’.

I like having gameplay that rewards the use of tactics and a defensive mindset over run-n-gun … so am enjoying Jedi Fallen Order.
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November 18th, 2019, 19:26
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I like having gameplay that rewards the use of tactics and a defensive mindset over run-n-gun … so am enjoying Jedi Fallen Order.
You cannot "run-n-gun" in DS, its all about tactics and pattern recognition so I would guess you will love DS
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November 18th, 2019, 19:50
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Haha - seriously! I am honestly neither that good nor that patient with video games that I have ever finished a Dark Souls game. And I don’t find that level of punishment ‘fun’.

I like having gameplay that rewards the use of tactics and a defensive mindset over run-n-gun … so am enjoying Jedi Fallen Order.
If that were true you should love dark souls. As approaching without tactics or playing defensively is a sure recipe for death.

PLaying it as run and gun is probably why you’re not good at it. If you’re not preparing for battles (picking armors, weapons, consumables and items to use) and playing defensively by dodging, blocking, positioning or parrying then you’re dying a lot. On the surface DS looks like a beat em up. In reality it’s extremely deep.

The problem is that you have to spend some extensive time with DS to figure that out and many get too frustrated and quit before they do.

On topic while this game has a few things in common with DS in the combat it’s not remotely a DS clone. As lostforever said its much more of a platformer than ARPG.
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November 18th, 2019, 20:11
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
You cannot "run-n-gun" in DS, its all about tactics and pattern recognition so I would guess you will love DS
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
If that were true you should love dark souls. As approaching without tactics or playing defensively is a sure recipe for death.
I made the mistake of putting two distinct thoughts without stating I was changing topics

I *know* what DS IS and how to play it … which allows me to play Jedi Fallen order immediately knowing how to approach things and having it flow naturally.

If DS had adjustable difficulty levels, then rather than suffer through it, I would have likely enjoyed even the crappy original game port and finished it. But I am not a console gamer, I am a PC gamer since the start, and FPS before RPG and never a ‘beat em up’ or other console game fan.
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November 19th, 2019, 10:49
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
For doing the same thing, it must be thought that this product is a DS like. Not the case.

Players have already pushed their lack of arguments to claim this product as a DS like. Reproducing them is unneeded. And there is probably no one who has pushed the combo ponchos plus swords before.


No use for fallacy. Fallacies are left to others. Superior minded people. Simple minded people do not have the intellect to use them. Just as they fail to perceive this product as a DS like. They can not even produce a lack of arguments the same quality as superior minded people can: ponchos and swords.
Did you actually play any of the games you are comparing here and claiming you know what they really are? Or did you just watch some gameplay videos as usual and now you are parroting what you saw, without any actual gameplay experience?

I played all games you are talking about here: Ryse, Dark Souls and Fallen Order. And Fallen Order definitelu HAS several game design aspects copied from DS games.

Checkpoint system works just like in DS games:
When checkpoint is claimed, you respawn at it upon death.
You can rest at it and refill healing counter.
You can spend skill points you get for experience.

Another designs copied from/inspiered by DS:
Experience is lost upon death and has to be claimed from the enemy that killed you.
Upon death or after rest at checkpoint all regular enemies on map respawn.
Map design is again inspired by Dark Souls, only on smaller scale. But there is always main progress route that might branch at some points and on the route you can open so called "shortcuts" - again plainly copied from DS. On the map, you are free to choose your route to get to another "story progress pont".

Fallen Order is not Dark Souls, because:
there is no usual RPG attribute system, there is no equipment evolution and management, there is no real crafting that would affect the gameplay.
Game world is much smaller and overall game is much shorter then DS.

Fallen Order is not Ryse, because:
It has much deeper combat system, directly affected by skill choices.
I will not say it has deeper skill system, because Ryse skill system is pretentious joke and even naming it as skill system is overstatement it doesnt deserve.
It is not blatantly railroaded action where boring combat interconnects story progress.
Even though you end-up claiming all skills in skill tree, choice which skills to take sooner and which later are already something that directly affects gameplay. Ryse choice and consequence … did I just use those words in same sentence?

I was actually able to enjoy all three games, even Ryse, but only because I did not expect from them what they couldnt provide. I took them for what they are.

I will again state that watching is not same as playing. You can wath, but you will not get the gameplay feel. That feel helps to underline important aspects of the game. If you just watch, aspects alone seem much more similar, without that accent given by gameplay feel.
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November 19th, 2019, 14:35
Cosmetic consequences. The RPG element approach.

Design elements are a limited set. Two projects that ignore each other might end including the same design elements.

This is the whole failed RPG element approach. If a product has design elements that RPG products have, then this product is RPG.

The failure of this approach was predicted years ago on this site (the future is RPG)

And the failure is screamed by proponents themselves: they are bailing out of their failed ways of thinking because they can not bear the consequences.

And as theory of conspiracy is useful, they claim that the trend is forced on them by corps or whateve when corps have only listened to customers.

The check point story is the same road. A non deterministic design element is taken as determining of a DS experience when dozens of genres can adopt it without changing what they are. It is one way to design things and it is not specific to DS.

To crown it all, when it was told that Ryse provided a template, the whole thing is to find points to exclude.
Of course, this is not a Ryze like product, it has no Rome and no beard in it.
Just like this is DS like, it has ponchos and swords in it.

Once again, there is nothing surprising here: reports like that come mostly from countries where people have a historical record of failing to perceive human beings as human beings.

No doubt about it, this is DS like stuff, ponchos and swords.
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November 19th, 2019, 14:44
So suppose the answer is no, you didnt play it. Its like talking about sex with experience only from porn videos.
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November 20th, 2019, 08:41
Brilliant point. Must be mailed to devs who release one hour/two hour gameplay videos before their product is released and players who watch them.

Will be used on this site when the opportunity appears.
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