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Default Baldur's Gate 3 - Pre-Patch Heads-Up

October 11th, 2021, 21:54
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I wasn't referring to the salami thing, which (I hope) isn't actually going to be in the game anyways. I was referring to how deeply ingrained that kind of humor was in every aspect of their previous games. There's really no comparison.
Larian games have been goofy, no doubt about that. I wouldn't be as quick to declare them less goofy across the board… I can recall quite a few silly things in the Baldur's Gate games off the top of my head (Jan and his turnips being another example). I think we're on the same page about what we want from BG3: silly/funny moments, but not a silly/funny world and tone throughout.
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October 11th, 2021, 21:56
If nobody was satisfied, I don't see why Larian would reiterate this process, or why so many fans would respond so positively to the EA. To be frank, I don't see any toxicity there, not with Larian, and not with the other few games I took in EA (for ex. Encased and Solasta). People don't donate money, they pay in advance, usually at a reduced price.

I'm not convinced BG3 would be better if Larian was left without any feedback either.

Most products these days are based on what people like, from polls and gathered data, AFAIK there is no cursus on how to design a successful product, game or other. Only fools like Steve Jobs think they can design the pure product they imagined and that people will embrace it.

Not all feedback is good, and yes, some people are more vocal and perhaps not the ones we'd prefer. We have to trust Larian not to be completely blind when they take decisions, but at least they have a pool of opinion they can refer to. From what I see in the D:OS series, they seem to have done very well, even if not everything is perfect.
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October 11th, 2021, 21:58
Either you are being naive or obtuse if you truly think that paying £30 for an EA should be the determining factor on whether your feedback is good or not for the health of a creative scene in video games.

Larian obviously doesn't like the EA, what they do like is the early infusion of cash it brings them, which, in their mind, weighs more than the shit they have to put up with for it. Still far from optimal, and if they had a more convenient way of financing their enterprise and paying their employees during the development period they'd spit on EA as any artist for any profession with a creative process would.

If what you are saying is that some feedback can be good, I don't disagree, but that's never what I'm talking about.
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October 11th, 2021, 22:06
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Question is how far along is the development? I wish they would give a concrete estimated release date. As the last couple of acts will never be released on Early Access.
This is my big problem with BG3 EA. To me they aren't offering EA they're offering a preorder with a demo. (yes, a big demo, but still)

I like EA and played all of Blackguards in EA. Enjoyed it so much that I played it again on full release. Would do the same with BG3 if they gave me the option.

As for the salami thing I hope it's not in game but if it is I just won't use it and hope like heck enemies won't be able to use it on me. I like witty tongue in cheek humor in my games not slapstick comedy.
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October 11th, 2021, 22:18
I believe I will disagree. I believe it is truly EA since they take user feedback seriously and make significant changes to the core mechanics. The thing is they aren't testing areas with EA (and perhaps they should); they are testing game mechanics and ideas. Of course it isn't clear if we will like the final mechanics better than than the initial product only time will tell.

Having said this while they do indicate exactly what they are doing if you read the various bulletin boards and the product description they pretty much indicate exactly what will happen during early access; though I suppose they could be a bit more concise.

Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
This is my big problem with BG3 EA. To me they aren't offering EA they're offering a preorder with a demo. (yes, a big demo, but still)

I like EA and played all of Blackguards in EA. Enjoyed it so much that I played it again on full release. Would do the same with BG3 if they gave me the option.

As for the salami thing I hope it's not in game but if it is I just won't use it and hope like heck enemies won't be able to use it on me. I like witty tongue in cheek humor in my games not slapstick comedy.
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October 11th, 2021, 22:27
Isn't the salami thing not just the possibility to use random stuff as a weapon or armor? DOS already had that where you could wear a bucket as a helmet, use a stick to hit someone with or use something like a rake or a branch. They are all low level weapons and armor and were utterly useless, but offered some interaction. Salami sounds just like an extension of that possibility, more useless stuff to use as a weapon.
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October 11th, 2021, 22:31
Originally Posted by notdart View Post
I believe I will disagree. I believe it is truly EA since they take user feedback seriously and make significant changes to the core mechanics. The thing is they aren't testing areas with EA (and perhaps they should); they are testing game mechanics and ideas. Of course it isn't clear if we will like the final mechanics better than than the initial product only time will tell.

Having said this while they do indicate exactly what they are doing if you read the various bulletin boards and the product description they pretty much indicate exactly what will happen during early access; though I suppose they could be a bit more concise.
I wasn't implying that they were being dishonest or misleading just that to me I'd prefer EA to release episodically until final release. I believe that differentiates EA from just a demo as you can give feedback on a demo as well.

I knew what I was getting into though and won't loose any sleep over it. It has more to do with my impatience and wanting to play the game that anything Larian did wrong.
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October 11th, 2021, 22:46
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
Isn't the salami thing not just the possibility to use random stuff as a weapon or armor? DOS already had that where you could wear a bucket as a helmet, use a stick to hit someone with or use something like a rake or a branch. They are all low level weapons and armor and were utterly useless, but offered some interaction. Salami sounds just like an extension of that possibility, more useless stuff to use as a weapon.
A lot of "serious" games have a trout as a low-level weapon and such, so I wouldn't discard it. If the salami will indeed be in the final version of the game, it may be a little silly, but it's also very easy to just not use it at that point, really.

It also seems only an "issue" because you are able to equip it in your main weapon slot and (theoretically) has weapon stats. I can't imagine anyone would mind if you could find salamis to eat in the game, just as cheese, fish, or meat chops.
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October 11th, 2021, 22:56
If I recall the Pathfinder games had some food weapons as well. I recall a weapon called cheese or something else with food. Think the PoE games had something similar as well.
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October 12th, 2021, 10:09
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Either you are being naive or obtuse if you truly think that paying £30 for an EA should be the determining factor on whether your feedback is good or not for the health of a creative scene in video games.

Larian obviously doesn't like the EA, what they do like is the early infusion of cash it brings them, which, in their mind, weighs more than the shit they have to put up with for it. Still far from optimal, and if they had a more convenient way of financing their enterprise and paying their employees during the development period they'd spit on EA as any artist for any profession with a creative process would.

If what you are saying is that some feedback can be good, I don't disagree, but that's never what I'm talking about.
What? I think you misread me very badly, because I never said that.

We can turn in circles like that for days, let's just agree to disagree. You're seeing things in black and white, while I'm seeing them in grey.

Pointless anyway since we're not in their heads. And it's only Larian, there are many others doing EA, that's why I don't generalize.

EDIT: if you were following them, you wouldn't suggest they don't like the feedback. Just look at the changes they've made - you said it yourself, and the dramatic events they regularly organize.
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October 12th, 2021, 10:40
@Nereida That last EDIT sentence came out badly, sorry. I should ask what makes you think that, rather than pretending it's wrong.

I haven't seen signs they didn't like the process, and if they didn't like it, couldn't they simply do pre-orders or a Kickstarter, or even an EA without saying they like the feedback?

But perhaps the EA/funding is a subject for a dedicated thread, it's an interesting one (if controversial) but it is much larger than Larian and Baldur's Gate 3.
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October 12th, 2021, 12:27
I am artist by profession, so I will say also that my opinion comes from a professional point of view, which also makes it quite biased, as the topic touches home for me. Paid Alpha/Beta/EA puts the creators on a "commission work" that grants users the sense of entitlement to believe that because they paid some cash, they get to decide what the work of art will be, or what the artist should be spending their resources on. That is simply atrocious. What is worse, if the artist takes a different direction than they claim, then they are "ignoring feedback" and "being a fraud". As every person has a different opinion on how things should be, there will always be a minority that starts a riot about the game not being what they paid for.

I really want to elaborate, but that is the gist of it. We can start a thread somewhere, as the topic is bigger than Larian and BG3.
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October 12th, 2021, 17:14
I think EA only makes sense if you have some kind of structured feedback mechanism where each gamer's opinion is weighted equally, e.g. by doing surveys with mainly closed-ended questions (like single or multiple-choice, numbers etc.).
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October 12th, 2021, 17:29
I would guess and it’s only a guess that a relatively small amount of players offer feedback or beta testing of any kind. I played 60 hours of EA for instance and never once provided feedback. I don’t want to design the game or beta test so I didn’t. I just played the content offered.

Also saying you’ll listen to feedback doesn’t mean you’ll implement any of it. After seeing how larian handled feedback with d: os I feel comfortable with it in BG3.
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October 12th, 2021, 18:54
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I would guess and it’s only a guess that a relatively small amount of players offer feedback or beta testing of any kind. I played 60 hours of EA for instance and never once provided feedback.
You didn't offer feedback explicitly. However it might be that while playing the game sent data about you playing(e.g. achievements), so you offered data implicitly.
Iirc Larian in doing this with BG3. This is (besides surveys) another form of gathering structured feedback data.
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October 12th, 2021, 19:44
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
You didn't offer feedback explicitly. However it might be that while playing the game sent data about you playing(e.g. achievements), so you offered data implicitly.
Iirc Larian in doing this with BG3. This is (besides surveys) another form of gathering structured feedback data.
Yeah, haven't you seen those stats Larian has released along the way? 32.3% of players did this, 77% did that? They certainly didn't gather that data from people explicitly sending them a list of the stuff they did.
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October 12th, 2021, 20:12
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Yeah, haven't you seen those stats Larian has released along the way? 32.3% of players did this, 77% did that?
I don't follow it closely, so I wasn't sure any more and thus said iirc.
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October 12th, 2021, 20:55
I did see a "heat map" that showed the areas players have gone through most often, what choices they made, where they died etc, and I think I remember them saying something like "If too many players are dying in an encounter, it gives us an idea that it's too hard, and then we can lower the difficulty" or something along those lines.

Hopefully, that won't mean the game is trivial for people that want to be challenged.
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October 12th, 2021, 21:04
I remember when they had an update saying people were making very simply characters even though they gave amazing customisation options.

So it's certainly automated data they get.
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October 12th, 2021, 22:54
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
I don't follow it closely, so I wasn't sure any more and thus said iirc.
I was talking to Sakichop via agreeing with what you posted.
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