JRPG Masterpieces

fadedc said:

Has anyone mentioned the Etrian Odyssey series? T

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EO is a bit of a love/hate relationship to me. Love the exploration and cartography, but I feel the game is schizophrenic: it looks like a jRpg, therefore I do expect some hand-holding, instead I get a brutal Wizardry-like sucker punch. Ouch.

Never tried the story-ed ones though (Millennium Girl et al). Any thoughts on that?

duerer said:

EO is a bit of a love/hate relationship to me. Love the exploration and cartography, but I feel the game is schizophrenic: it looks like a jRpg, therefore I do expect some hand-holding, instead I get a brutal Wizardry-like sucker punch. Ouch.

Never tried the story-ed ones though (Millennium Girl et al). Any thoughts on that?

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I haven't played any since the third US game (all on DS). Totally loved getting sucker punched by these brutal games . FOE!

duerer said:

EO is a bit of a love/hate relationship to me. Love the exploration and cartography, but I feel the game is schizophrenic: it looks like a jRpg, therefore I do expect some hand-holding, instead I get a brutal Wizardry-like sucker punch. Ouch.

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That's...actually an incredibly good way to describe Etrian Odyssey.

And EO is nothing if not brutal. Ouch, indeed.

Falksi said:

FFX - Cheesy? Yeah. Linear? Yep, that too. But it's also supremely atmospheric, wonderfully emotional, has a great story with a few nice twists and interesting + fun gameplay.

Phantasy Star 4 - Still holds up today as a superbly paced and enjoyable JRPG. The comic style cut-scenes between very likeable and interesting characters add loads to the game, and there always seems to be a surprise in store along the way.

FF5 - An often overlooked game, 5 is superb IMO. The job system adds loads to it, and the dungeons, story, world and characters are all top notch.

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I wholeheartedly agree with these selections and your comments. Though I would say FFX is just short of being a masterpiece due to the somewhat annoying temple puzzles - I really hated those. But that aside, very memorable game.

And always surprised Sega doesn't do more with the Phantasy Star games. Remakes would be great but I would really love to see a 5th game. But 4 is definitely an underappreciated classic.

Other JRPGs I consider masterpieces:

Persona 4

Final Fantasy IX

Lunar Silver Star Story

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2

Not sure if it's a masterpiece, I didn't quite finish it and I will need to replay it to see if it was as good as I remember it a few years ago but Rogue Galaxy was definitely a well made and fun JRPG.

I definitely consider Final Fantasy XII a masterpiece but fans are so split on that one, it's either loved or hated. I think it does a great job blending the old and the new and it's where the series should have headed rather than the awful FF XIII. But it's no surprise I love it as it is set in the world of FF Tactics, my all time favorite FF game.

Oh, how could I forget Dragon Quest???

All Dragon Quest titles I have played (1 - 4, 8, 9) have been fantastic. My favorites are DQ 3 and DQ 8. Just started 6 recently so not sure how it will fair but so far, so good.

Relayer said:

Oh, how could I forget Dragon Quest???

All Dragon Quest titles I have played (1 - 4, 8, 9) have been fantastic. My favorites are DQ 3 and DQ 8. Just started 6 recently so not sure how it will fair but so far, so good.

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How do you feel about the new one? I have yet to play it (or really, any Dragon Quest game)...

You mean Dragon Quest Heroes or whatever it's called? I played the store demo just the other day, and while it seemed fairly entertaining, I wouldn't call it an RPG.

Haven't played that one (Heroes), and the latest main line entry is DQ 10 which was an MMORPG/on-line only title which I also haven't played. They should have given that one a new spin-off name and not considered part of the main series.

Last one I played was 9 - enjoyed it but didn't finish it, have to get back to it at some point. The DQ games have been pretty consistent and that entry was no different. I did find the combat was a tad on the easy side compared to older titles.

Thanks, JDR. It's something I wouldn't mind trying someday, so I'm glad it's not totally abysmal, RPG or not.

I know it's a little early to say this, but I think Last Dream is on the masterpiece route for me! Why? I've only played 20-ish hours of it, but it's been really great. The game is very expansive and has a ton of features from early JRPGs that I simply love, and the game just has a ton of lovingly crafted content and things to do and see. It's one of the most rewarding and fun old-school style JRPGs I've ever played!

For those interested, an expansion and a sequel are coming for the game that both aim to make the series even more expansive and detailed (which is mindblowing, because the game is already huge)! I plan on making a large contribution to White Giant Studios once I get the money. You can get yourself in the game with a donation and they all help to make the new game bigger and better than ever!

http://whitegiantrpg.com/

Check it out and at least try the demo! If you play one RPGMaker game right now, make it this one.

Fluent said:

Check it out and at least try the demo! If you play one RPGMaker game right now, make it this one.

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And it's easy to mod… Which means you can make your own characters!

Disclaimer: In general I don't really like JRPGs. They tend to be very grindy / repetitive and too linear for my tastes. However, there a few that I just love.

Growlanser Generations (PS2) (Actually two games sold together in North America: GL2 and GL3)

GL2 has several branching paths. Combat in Growlanser difficult to compare to other games.. It is sort of a hybrid between turn-based and real-time, but not exactly ATB and I wouldn't really call it RTwP (although you can essentially interrupt your characters to issue new commands). It isn't perfect but a bit different and while I'd still prefer tactical turn-based, I enjoy it. What I love most about GL combat is all of the major battles have a goal besides "kill all the enemies", which is usually optional, such as protecting hostages from being killed. While I've played other SRPGs that have done this, I find it was the most fun in Growlanser Generations.

Growlanser tends to have a more serious / mature tone than a lot of JRPGs. While there is definitely some humor and cheese, the games are mercifully free of the whiny clueless young protagonist of humble origins who somehow saves the world. Actually, with the exception of GL2, the protagonist is silent and you have a choice over most of his dialogue.

Growlanser games have also done romance better than any other RPG I've ever played. Your dialogue choices and actions will determine how much a female companion likes you… And if they like you enough, you can unlock their ending. (There's also "bromance" endings for the male party members if you choose to go that route).

What you say / do may also affect your personality (i.e., what options are available to you later). But it all works much better than Bioware's dialogue wheel IMO… You can read exactly what you're going to say and never feel forced to choose a dialogue option I wouldn't want to say. I believe it is also possible to make a character hate you to the point where your relationship is doomed… feels much more "realistic" than the games where you can be a total jerk to characters and then buy their love with a bunch of gifts.


Growlanser: Wayfarer of Time (PSP) (Growlanser IV). Has a much slower start than GL2 and GL3, but once you get into it, it is a great game. Like GL2, there's branching narratives.. Two main paths and many choices to make throughout. There's also an "evil" route, which is only accessible on "new game plus". My main criticism is that in some cases, the goals in battles, which were usually optional in GL2 &3 will result in a game over if failed in WoT. However, some of the companions and major characters have a point in the story at which they can die if you don't save them; which I really like and would love to see in more RPGs. When you consider the epilogues based on which character you romance or BFFed, the game has dozens of potential endings.

Radiant Historia (NDS) a great tactical combat system. Unfortunately combat isn't always balanced the best, with many fights being too easy once you get the hang of things.. Although I found the final boss extremely difficult IIRC. The game has a very serious tone. The story involves time travel and there are many secrets and multiple endings.

Shining Force 2 (Sega Genesis) Haven't played this one since the 90's so I may be remembering with rose-colored glasses… But I recall it being a really fun SRPG. The combat system is about as simple as SRPGs get but is fun and I love having huge battles with up to 12 playable characters. Story is fairly light-hearted and there's a huge amount of characters which can be recruited as potential party members. Also, unlike a lot of tactical JRPGs, you get to move around towns, talking to NPCs and finding secret areas with treasure, etc.

Shining Force 3 (Sega Saturn) I've only played the first (of three) scenario so far.. .The only part officially released in English. But as I understand there are patches w/ fan translations of parts 2 and 3 available now. Very similar to SF2 in mechanics and has a more complex story.

Celestian Tales: Old North (PC) Currently only the first of three parts is released and so it does feel short / incomplete... But it's enjoyable and combat doesn't get tedious like it does for a lot of longer JRPGs. The prequel DLC is coming out soon and the developer seems to be listening to player feedback and making improvements.

Infinite Space, could not have the fame, not sure why.

I checked quickly the wiki, and it seems main complains are the learning curve too step and the clunky controls. For clunky controls I didn't noticed, anyway any gamepad game has clunky controls, on that FFT would be awful and a crap if that was that important. For learning curve, well I suppose the targeted console generated it, if the game has a problem on that point then Master of Orion is an utter crap.

A side note, don't expect a high level deep tactical aspect, the real time (slow/sort of turns) combats are less superficial than it seems but not deep either, you manage them more at the strategy level when you craft each ship and setup your (tiny) fleet.

What's great is the relative freedom and how the story is managed inside this freedom level, plus managing all your stuff, but ok I admit I also enjoyed the simple combats.

Relayer said:

Oh, how could I forget Dragon Quest???

All Dragon Quest titles I have played (1 - 4, 8, 9) have been fantastic. My favorites are DQ 3 and DQ 8. Just started 6 recently so not sure how it will fair but so far, so good.

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Only tried and didn't finished the 3, but dam it impressed me, not the combats not at all, but how the story telling is managed, at least during the whole first chapter.

It's definitely a game and a series I would try on a computer, Mac preferably but with wine would be fine too. The DS series is just too much for my eyes, even when I was playing DQ3 it was quite stressing, I tried the XL but it was still not enough. Now I think of it there's perhaps the emulation, the algorithms to scale aren't that bad, alas the illegal aspect is a no go for me, ha well ok perhaps beside some quick try to check but not for really playing a game.

Sanglon said:

Infinite Space, could not have the fame, not sure why.

I checked quickly the wiki, and it seems main complains are the learning curve too step and the clunky controls. For clunky controls I didn't noticed, anyway any gamepad game has clunky controls, on that FFT would be awful and a crap if that was that important. For learning curve, well I suppose the targeted console generated it, if the game has a problem on that point then Master of Orion is an utter crap.

A side note, don't expect a high level deep tactical aspect, the real time (slow/sort of turns) combats are less superficial than it seems but not deep either, you manage them more at the strategy level when you craft each ship and setup your (tiny) fleet.

What's great is the relative freedom and how the story is managed inside this freedom level, plus managing all your stuff, but ok I admit I also enjoyed the simple combats

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Infinite Space is a very underrated RPG, imo. I have a "Let's Discover" mini-series on my YouTube channel for the game where I play it "blindly" for the first time. It has some really interesting elements. It adds much deeper elements as you progress, to the point where you have some really interesting decisions to make in how you build your ships, your fleet, etc. The combat *is* pretty simple but the total package is quite remarkable. One of those hidden gem RPGs.