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October 16th, 2020, 17:17
So are you talking to me as I never made a GTA reference.

I was talking about the lack of original Triple A RPGs the above poster mentioned.
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October 16th, 2020, 17:21
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
I agree but it seems generic fantasy/Sc-fi i is what buyers mostly want. I'm not kidding firms have done studies, and the stats are what publishers who fund games use.

Can't believe we haven't had a Triple A RPG like Witcher 3 for five years now. There used to be BioWare RPGs every three years, but fans put a stop to that. (You online Whiners.)

In part thanks to how Mass Effect Andromeda was received by the public.
I haven't seen those studies, but I can picture the questions and people always feel more comfortable with what they know. Even when they consider the known mediocre, they tend to prefer it to the potentially great but also potentially not for them unknown.

In other words, you can't ask people what they want (or if you do, you have to do it in a more clever way than asking them what their favorite games are, or which genre they prefer playing). Sometimes you have to tell people what they want. Vampire: Bloodlines is a beloved game. So is Arcanum. Neither are anything people would have volunteered as something they'd want to play before they existed. Post-apocalyptic games are everywhere now, but it took Fallout 3 (and then New Vegas) to make that happen. There was a decade in between where there were no such games, and a belief that nobody wanted them.

The ME: Andromeda thing still bugs me. Stupid mob mentality unfairly trashed a pretty good game.
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October 16th, 2020, 17:23
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
So are you talking to me as I never made a GTA reference.

I was talking about the lack of original Triple A RPGs the above poster mentioned.
No, not addressing you. It's a stand alone post addressing e'body.

Besides, I know that you're excited about Cyberpunk.
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October 16th, 2020, 17:24
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
GTA:
Has no character progression. No perks, skills, attributes, none of it.
Has limited weapon variety and no other equipment whatsoever
Has and has always had terrible combat
Has no dialogue choices or other input from the player
Has a linear plot structure
Has only one way to accomplish any given mission in the game.
Has a 99% crime-centric plot with 99% crime-centric missions
Has two player activities outside of mini-games: drive and shoot (and that's what you do in a lot of the mini games too)

Being set in a city and having cars does not make Cyberpunk 2077 a GTA clone. It makes it a game with a modern urban setting. It's a lazy, lazy comparison.
In my view GTA also had probably the least believable and least mature approach to storytelling of any game I have ever played. Every moment characters were speaking in unrealistic voices saying very unrealistic things, and the entire story made little sense to me from a character-motivation perspective.

From a story perspective it felt like it was a game made for 8-year-olds. I would be okay with that if its comedy approach had plenty of laughs, but the only laughs I had were laughing in pain at how stupid and unfunny it all was. I don't know how I was able to finish the single-player campaign, and even though I somewhat enjoyed GTA IV I'm never buying another GTA game as long as it's made by any of the same awful writers.
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October 16th, 2020, 17:27
I cleaned up my last posts to make it more accessible.
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
So walking would be perfectly fine for me, they could also implement a subway, it's quite appropriate in a city Or taxi drivers, after all the trend is steering away from owned vehicles in the future.
There was a subway but during development it was axed. Reasons being to much resources, errors, and it didn't work. It caused a small uproar when it was noticed.

You might see it in cut-scenes/ certain missions still though.
Originally Posted by Gwydden View Post
There hasn't been a AAA fantasy WRPG since Wild Hunt in 2015. There's some upcoming ones (BG3, Avowed, Fable, Dragon Age 4) but they're a ways off.
I agree but it seems generic fantasy/Sc-fi is what buyers mostly want. I'm not kidding firms have done studies, and the stats are what publishers who fund games use.

Can't believe we haven't had a Triple A RPG like Witcher 3 for five years now. There used to be BioWare RPGs every three years, but fans put a stop to that. (You online Whiners.)

In part thanks to how Mass Effect Andromeda was received by the public.
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Edit: also, we can quibble about what "AAA" means, but to me Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, and Divnity: Original Sin 2 all absolutely qualify in the RPG space. 2018, 2018 and 2017, respectively.
The answer is simple you need to have a 20+ million or more budget. Crowdfunded RPGs are not Triple AAA Rpgs games. They wouldn't be isometric or TB either. That's for sure.
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
I haven't seen those studies, but I can picture the questions and people always feel more comfortable with what they know. Even when they consider the known mediocre, they tend to prefer it to the potentially great but also potentially not for them unknown.
I've been in a few of them and actually got paid with a gift-card. Boring as hell and filled with a wide range of people who play and don't play games. To get a wide sample.
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October 16th, 2020, 17:34
Originally Posted by NFLed View Post
In my view GTA also had probably the least believable and least mature approach to storytelling of any game I have ever played.
It was similar to many movies I agree with you that such gang/criminal stories can appear immature. Nevertheless, I liked how the story was implemented. There are highly regarded games and movies alike with much trashier plots out there.

PS. Not trying to defend the game. Just feeling that people are over-reacting quite a lot here.
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October 16th, 2020, 18:26
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Since this comparison is made constantly, either in jest or in perfect seriousness, I have a question.

How would CDPR go about putting vehicles/driving in the game and NOT invite countless GTA references? It's a rhetorical question as far as I know, because I think the answer is actually that there isn't a way, but if someone has any real insight I'd like to hear it.

Or it is people's opinion that in a major urban setting everyone should just walk?
I make the comparison because it has a GTA vibe. To me at least. It is often compared. In my mind it’s a compliment. Rockstar is very successful and make quality games. Even CDPR has said they admire Rockstar and want to emulate them.

It’s not a slight. You’d be hard pressed to find any game you couldn’t compare to some other game.

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October 16th, 2020, 22:14
I am seriously considering pre-ordering and throwing my money at them.
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October 16th, 2020, 22:23
Originally Posted by wiretripped View Post
I am seriously considering pre-ordering and throwing my money at them.
Same, and I almost never pre-order anymore. I think ELEX was the last game I pre-ordered.
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October 16th, 2020, 22:51
No, it was Prey.

I see again GTA vibes mentioned. After spending 56834658873 hours with the utter boredom falsely advertised as a videogame called GTA5, I assure you, there is no such boredom vibe in Cyberpunk vids.
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October 16th, 2020, 23:00
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
No, it was Prey. .
I think I did pre-order Prey actually, but that was released a few months before ELEX.
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October 16th, 2020, 23:12
Those cars look amazing. I guess even if Cyberpunk does bomb or end up mediocre when it comes to story or gameplay, it should at least be a feast for the eyes to explore the fantasically designed world.

And I'm not saying it's gonna bomb, but something in the back of my mind says they're hiding something. I just can't imagine they can have lightning strike twice, as it did once with Witcher 3. Also due to what we're hearing about constant crunch in their teams.
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October 16th, 2020, 23:21
For me, I think the game looks amazing in most respects, and a more RPG-style take on GTA's better features could be terrific.

My main concern is the tone. I'm not a big fan of that exaggerated, cartoonish, tough-guy style that defines GTA, and I do get a whiff of it here. As someone mentioned, hopefully it's just pushing those elements in the marketing to attract that GTA dollar.
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October 17th, 2020, 00:33
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
For me, I think the game looks amazing in most respects, and a more RPG-style take on GTA's better features could be terrific.

My main concern is the tone. I'm not a big fan of that exaggerated, cartoonish, tough-guy style that defines GTA, and I do get a whiff of it here. As someone mentioned, hopefully it's just pushing those elements in the marketing to attract that GTA dollar.
Agree about the tone. I think I would like a more depressing tone to everything, like Blade Runner. But I wonder if that would not get tiresome after 60+ hours. But I think I would like to see that, rather than the over-the-top GTA tone.
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October 17th, 2020, 00:51
Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus View Post
Agree about the tone. I think I would like a more depressing tone to everything, like Blade Runner. But I wonder if that would not get tiresome after 60+ hours. But I think I would like to see that, rather than the over-the-top GTA tone.
Yeah, that's an interesting point. If we're talking movies, I like a cool, "observing humanity as a phenomenon" kind-of tone. But I'm not sure that would work for the length of a game.

For me, the way they write their characters in games makes all the difference.
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October 17th, 2020, 10:12
I am also concerned: how does stealing cars fit into an RPG setting where actions should have consequences? Does the game remember that you stole the car? Does someone come after you?

Or is it like in GTA? I cannot see how similar lame reaction to theft would fit into an RPG.

Anyway, I have faith and they have probably solved this issue somehow.
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October 17th, 2020, 10:40
Originally Posted by largh View Post
I am also concerned: how does stealing cars fit into an RPG setting where actions should have consequences? Does the game remember that you stole the car? Does someone come after you?

Or is it like in GTA? I cannot see how similar lame reaction to theft would fit into an RPG.

Anyway, I have faith and they have probably solved this issue somehow.
About stealing cars, I was surprised to hear you cannot keep stolen cars. Only ones aquired through legitimate means. I heard it was covered in the post-show Q&A.
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October 17th, 2020, 11:10
It's probably a very subjective opinion because we're not all looking for the same in games. But I agree with JFarrell71, I fail to see how GTA could be the best game, or even a good one.

GTA is a big sandbox, it's really the open-world in its extreme, where the story is not even necessary. And indeed, the story is so light and linear that it's quickly finished, leaving the players with the only thing they can do, pointless activities based on crime and negativity. That is the only feature that exists besides the few triggers of the story, you can steal cars, drive them without purpose, and shoot people (also without purpose other than trying not to be killed).

And it's way too easy to get away with it, just shoot enough policemen, walk a little further, and everything is forgiven. Persistence is not something that belongs to this world, you get a car, drive it for a while, park, walk 10m and when you look back… it's not there anymore. Same goes for the traffic. What is that for a message? Whatever you do, it's erased in seconds, so again it's pointless in a different way. Do whatever you want, nobody cares.

I played it through, and the only feeling I remember is the lack of purpose, and wasting time doing aimless actions, then getting bored. Sure, there was fun during the "campaign", but it was so short-lived.

And so simplistic. The game is making sure you don't have to use your brain, it will always give you a big pointer to where you need to go for the next trigger. And indeed, it's a one-way linear story, so the player just has to follow the white rabbit, and dexterity is all that matters. The story is not likely to give you a headache either.

I hope Cyberpunk won't fall into the same trap by relying onto the big open-world they invested in to make up for the content. I don't think it'll be the case, but this recent focus on style, cars and races all point to superficiality and repetitive side quests, rather than subtelty of the main story. They have a good experience in storytelling though, so it should be fine. The usually very good DLC can also make a big difference.
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October 17th, 2020, 16:47
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
It's probably a very subjective opinion because we're not all looking for the same in games. But I agree with JFarrell71, I fail to see how GTA could be the best game, or even a good one
I was not and am not arguing the merits of GTA. I happen to love the GTA series. I played the crap out of IV and V, and if VI should one day surface as a single player game, I will no doubt play the crap out of that.

My argument is purely that Cyberpunk is not GTA. There are many, many fundamental differences between the two franchises, and so calling Cyberpunk a GTA clone, ripoff, reskin, etc is lazy and inaccurate. That's all.
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October 17th, 2020, 16:52
Originally Posted by largh View Post
I am also concerned: how does stealing cars fit into an RPG setting where actions should have consequences? Does the game remember that you stole the car? Does someone come after you?
The actions in RPGs that have consequences are always selective. Always. Players are able to steal and murder plenty with either very minor, abstracted consequences (pay this 20gp bribe) or with none at all. Games react to specific, usually quest related choices in major ways, but to lots of other choices not at all.

Also keep in mind the setting. Night City is brimming with crime. If you steal a car from some random choomba, who would care? Probably not the police or any other organized group.
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