The TV Series discussion thread

Carnifex said:

Speaking of Fox, they axed Almost Human recently. I really really should learn not to watch anything on Fox till the show is in it's third season or so.

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Well crap ... we're behind on the episodes, but I was digging some of the Blade Runner-ish vibe ...

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of Almost Human at first, but it got much better after the initial poor episodes. And then, of course, Fox cancelled it.

That sucks. Someone warned me though. Why did they drop it ?

ilm said:

That sucks. Someone warned me though. Why did they drop it ?

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There's only one reason possible: not enough viewers.

DArtagnan said:

There's only one reason possible: not enough viewers.

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It isn't quite so simple - because there are other shows with fewer viewers NOT getting canceled. I see it as a combination of:
- Current viewers
- Cost per episode in terms of actors, effects, and overall production
- Prospects for next season in terms of viewers vs. costs.

And I just assume it is that they ran the numbers and saw it as a financial loser not worth spending another year on ...

txa1265 said:

It isn't quite so simple - because there are other shows with fewer viewers NOT getting canceled. I see it as a combination of:
- Current viewers
- Cost per episode in terms of actors, effects, and overall production
- Prospects for next season in terms of viewers vs. costs.

And I just assume it is that they ran the numbers and saw it as a financial loser not worth spending another year on …

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It all boils down to exactly the same thing - too few viewers.

If it's too few viewers in relation to cost - it's too few viewers.

If it's too few viewers in relation to anything - it's too few viewers.

There's absolutely no way around this, I'm sorry to say

The problem is that these studios are stuck in an old mindset - with the sheer amount of media available these days, it simply takes time for a tv show to get noticed in the crowd unless its absolutely stellar. This was not the case even just ten years ago.

Of course, 'time' and ballooning budgets are not entirely agreeable with one another, so you get executives chasing their own tails to the detriment of viewers.

No. It was too expensive (in relation too the number of viewers)

Actually I was wondering if there is an official statement with numbers (breakdown). Guess that is wishful thinking. People should stop watching reality TV like the voice.

DArtagnan said:

It all boils down to exactly the same thing - too few viewers.

If it's too few viewers in relation to cost - it's too few viewers.

If it's too few viewers in relation to anything - it's too few viewers.

There's absolutely no way around this, I'm sorry to say

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No, you are very much correct - I was just framing the context around what you stated simply. Because I have already seen the questions "if it is about viewers, then why didn't show X with viewers Y get canceled?"

Framing the overall model puts it into context of any other product. Why do companies kill products? Almost always, it isn't making enough money. There are occasional 'pet products' that a company will lose money or make less than usual, but they are rare. For most it is the combination of top line sales and bottom line costs - a product can sell well but be unprofitable or be cheap to make but have mediocre sales and get canceled in favor of a product with average costs and sales that provides decent revenues.

It's sad and true that it's cancelled. But it's Fox. When do they cancel something? When it's a jewel and they don't want to throw jewels to pigs. If you're not a pig, go watch some other channels, FOX doesn't want you.
The same thing happened with Firefly.
I'm not saying that the first season of Almost Human is A+ material, but it was good enough to potentially turn into a brilliant season 2.

txa, you want more human/robot coop stuff? And of course, it has to be "not bad".
Try with not wideknown Total Recall 2070:
www.imdb.com/title/tt0159920

Since I've just started the anime avalanche, if you want to check that out there is something you could fell in love with. The title is Ghost in the Shell. I say that two movies are masterpieces:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1260502
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0347246
That first one is a "visually enhanced" original, there was no story massacre or other crap they usually do in Hollywood. So watch that "remake" titled GitS 2.0 first, then it's sequel Innocence.

Assuming you'll at least like them, move to series. Yes, there are spin-off TV series!
Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex - www.imdb.com/title/tt0346314
Ghost in the Shell: SAC 2nd GIG - www.imdb.com/title/tt1024214
Ghost in the Shell: Arise - www.imdb.com/title/tt2636124
I can't say if these series are good, great or bad… Haven't watched them. YET!

I actually watched some GitS a few years back with my kids ... I had to review a PSP game of the series so we thought it would be fun to watch some of the anime.

The anime was MUCH better (the game was mediocre with crap controls and long loads like every PSP shooter, but worse).

Don't even remind me about anime2game stuff… I've seen on youtube gameplay vids for some of them and got sick.
Sure, it's not easy to make a proper game out of amazing TV animation material, but hell if you don't know how to make a proper game out of it, there are people who do know. Pay them to make it, don't make and sell trash!

Anyway, I didn't have an opportunity to watch GitS series, but will try. The movies are of course in my home DVD collection. Hopefully series are not utterly expensive on amazon.

txa1265 said:

No, you are very much correct - I was just framing the context around what you stated simply. Because I have already seen the questions "if it is about viewers, then why didn't show X with viewers Y get canceled?"

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I get that, but ultimately - it's not a set amount I'm talking about. It's always in relation to the cost or predicted revenue, which I'd have thought obvious.

Framing the overall model puts it into context of any other product. Why do companies kill products? Almost always, it isn't making enough money. There are occasional 'pet products' that a company will lose money or make less than usual, but they are rare. For most it is the combination of top line sales and bottom line costs - a product can sell well but be unprofitable or be cheap to make but have mediocre sales and get canceled in favor of a product with average costs and sales that provides decent revenues.

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I'd argue that selling well has the cost as an implicit factor. I don't see any rational usage of "selling well" without cost considered - taking the way the world works.

But that's me

Remembered one more anime series with human/robot "study". It's Ergo Proxy:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0791205/

In a postapocaliptic world only one town remains where every human has it's follower robot. The problems emerge when robots under a certain virus start to develop selfconscience and above that a creature of a sort nonhuman and nonrobot appears and terrorizes the city. In order to get rid of this RPG bosslike creature a few characters will go on an adventure where they'll discover the spectacular* truth about the world, robots and proxy.

*Sadly, it's nothing spectacular.
You get a sort of an ending that still leaves many things open, and there are some things to dislike.
While the first part of series is very interesting, the second part till the last two episodes is one huge unnecessary filler that adds practically nothing to the story, character study in those episodes is an utter fail and some episodes are more than annoying.
There was no reason to ab(use) Daedalus greek myth in here and they still did it, a certain person has exactly that name and is creating (a sort of) wings which will bring the doom to one who uses them.
The final truth was supposed to be a shocking discovery, but not only it's not shocking it's a partial letdown that in a way contradicts itself.

I will not say it's a waste of time, but honestly, unless you just have to watch every single anime series out there, except the starting few episodes there is nothing impressive here as a reason to watch it.
5/10

About Almost Human, you do know the original version is in Netflix? It's British and lasted more than a season (3, 4?). I never understood why in America we feel like we have to do our own version of perfectly fine British shows.

wolfing said:

About Almost Human, you do know the original version is in Netflix? It's British and lasted more than a season (3, 4?). I never understood why in America we feel like we have to do our own version of perfectly fine British shows.

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Reason = money.

DArtagnan said:

Reason = money.

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Exactly - any time we get unnecessary remakes, reboots, sequel/prequel, books split into multiple movies ... just chalk it up to 'cash grab', and either ignore it, rematch the (universally superior) original or see if there is some entertainment value in the cash grab.

There are also sometime 'ego trip' projects like 'Charlie & the Chocolate Factory' ... but even then they only get funded for the cash grab value

Eh, I think you're talking about Being Human, not Almost Human…

And IMO the problem is only one. Actors.

Oh, not their talent! To earn the right not to be remade, you need to get yourself plastics and botox.

Admit. Russel Tovey from UK show could never get a lead role in Hollywood just because of his looks and you can't say he is not talented:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0869871/

And in every single remake all I see is faces, tits, butts and muscles improved, but quality drop on acting.

joxer said:

Eh, I think you're talking about Being Human, not Almost Human…

And IMO the problem is only one. Actors.

Oh, not their talent! To earn the right not to be remade, you need to get yourself plastics and botox.

Admit. Russel Tovey from UK show could never get a lead role in Hollywood just because of his looks and you can't say he is not talented:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0869871/

And in every single remake all I see is faces, tits, butts and muscles improved, but quality drop on acting.

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Oh crap, yes I thought this was about that show with a ghost, a vampire and a werewolf. Never heard of Almost Human (and guess I won't be hearing much about it now)

So only Arhu and me are watching anime series?
Guys, cmon. Give one a shot!
Okay, maybe we didn't cover the correct genre, I went onto steampunk fantasy, he went on drama and fantasy…

I know. Pure Sci-fi.


Cowboy Bebop

It's animated Firefly. WITH AN ENDING.
Okay, not really. Yes, we get a crew on a spaceship, but they do bounty hunting for living. And most of the time… They fail.
Which results in empty stomachs.
It's a story about friendship and different layers of love, with enough action and adventure. And hilarious situations, of course.
The drawing style is different from what you usually see, in here characters are not rediculously cute which is refreshing. In fact, instead of concentation on the style, this anime concentates on characters. Every episode brings more insight for each one of them, I dare to say this characters quality writing is not easily seen in live TV shows and is better than in many books! Somehow, the show never sinks into a yucky drama type. Sure, there is drama, but not in a shape you're seeing it elsewhere.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0213338/

According to some this is the best anime ever made. Me included:
10/10

Oh I said FMA/FMA:B is the best? Actually there are three best anime series ever that share #1 spot. FMA/FMA:B is one, Cowboy Bebop is another and the third one is… Not in this post!

——

But I still didn't precise why besides Fullmetal Alchemist/Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Cowboy Bebop is the best anime ever to me. There are two reasons beside awsomeness of the series.

1. Both have outstanding music of different genres, just as example…
FMA:B closing 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mUcDMZviJY
Cowboy Bebop Opening - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWk-VpK4hJo

2. Both can be easily converted into fullstory driven nongrinding RPG and because inside anime series the setting is so rich and there is enough lore, they can produce endless spin-offs!


Oh yea, the third anime that is a masterpiece of it's own, has an awsome mix of different genres music and practically gives you the ruleset for a RPGlike spellbook inside it? An anime that got banned in China. Led to a murder in Belgium. An anime that led to expelling and suspending students in USA?
The answer should be easy. Anyone knows?