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July 1st, 2018, 03:04
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
Is this shipping with anything akin to NWN's toolset?
Nope. Just googled it and the devs are going out of their way to say that it won't. Part of the problems is they are Russian, other problem it is made with Unity which is not that moddable.

There goes my last bit of interest in this game.
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July 1st, 2018, 03:05
How do you purchase the early access? I don't see it on Steam or the kickstarter page. Do you automatically get EA if you pre-order?

Also, how's the pathfinding (no pun intended ) during combat? Is it at least better than how it was in Pillars of Eternity?
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July 1st, 2018, 03:16
I sponsored the project but to date I've seen no invite to the steam build as of yet. Not that I'd do it, of course, but still. =p
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July 1st, 2018, 03:19
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Nope. Just googled it and the devs are going out of their way to say that it won't. Part of the problems is they are Russian, other problem it is made with Unity which is not that moddable.

There goes my last bit of interest in this game.
Wasn't that always a problem with the Unity engine RPG games? I know mods have been released for some of them, but it's nothing like NWN or the Baldur's Gate games.
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
I sponsored the project but to date I've seen no invite to the steam build as of yet. Not that I'd do it, of course, but still. =p
Did you pay extra for the Beta? It was the $95 and up tiers.
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July 1st, 2018, 03:22
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Wasn't that always a problem with the Unity engine games? I know mods have been released for some of them, but it's nothing like NWN or the Baldur's Gate games.
Since it came out I've always dreamed of building a NWN style Toolset with it. Alas, I don't have a $1m to fund a team to help do it.
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July 1st, 2018, 03:57
Requires 4 Gb of RAM? Well I hope that means area transitions will be fast.
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July 1st, 2018, 04:02
I've played since early beta and while I love what we have so far, there haven't been many QoL improvements since the beta started. It definitely isn't going to have polish that Pillars of Eternity 1 had for sure. I'm hoping there is a significantly improved main code trunk that isn't available in the beta because most of the bugs I have reported have not been fixed. I still love the game but it does still need some more love before it becomes truly great.
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July 1st, 2018, 04:07
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Part of the problems is they are Russian, other problem it is made with Unity which is not that moddable..
Unity not moddable? What planet do you live on? This has to be a statement made from complete ignorance. Unity by default is moddable. The structure of how you build assets/resources and code is naturally aligned with mods. Literally hundreds of Unity made games are moddable and a good RPG example would be shadowrun. If you are building a game engine from scratch then you have to put work in to make it moddable, whereas with Unity you actually have to lock it down to make it not moddable.

And what exactly is the problem with them being Russian?
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July 1st, 2018, 04:10
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
How do you purchase the early access? I don't see it on Steam or the kickstarter page. Do you automatically get EA if you pre-order?

Also, how's the pathfinding (no pun intended ) during combat? Is it at least better than how it was in Pillars of Eternity?
https://owlcatgames.com/preorder

As Couch already mentioned, you need $95 pledge or more to get beta access. It seems like Owlcats have taken that tier off preorder now since they are getting ready for the full release.

Unfortunately, there is still some path finding issues.

Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
Requires 4 Gb of RAM? Well I hope that means area transitions will be fast.
I found the loading time much quicker than PoE.

Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I've played since early beta and while I love what we have so far, there haven't been many QoL improvements since the beta started. It definitely isn't going to have polish that Pillars of Eternity 1 had for sure. I'm hoping there is a significantly improved main code trunk that isn't available in the beta because most of the bugs I have reported have not been fixed. I still love the game but it does still need some more love before it becomes truly great.
Yeah, beta version didn't get much support unfortunately, and I'm hoping it's because Owlcats were busy implementing fixes and changes in the actual version!
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July 1st, 2018, 04:25
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Unity not moddable? What planet do you live on? This has to be a statement made from complete ignorance. Unity by default is moddable. The structure of how you build assets/resources and code is naturally aligned with mods. Literally hundreds of Unity made games are moddable and a good RPG example would be shadowrun. If you are building a game engine from scratch then you have to put work in to make it moddable, whereas with Unity you actually have to lock it down to make it not moddable.
I didn't just say this. The community manager is saying this.

https://owlcatgames.com/forums/showt…full=1#post971

Originally Posted by Berserkerkitten Community Manager
Thing is, NWN was designed to be modded. Pillars, Tyranny and PFK are all Unity-based, so I reckon modding won't exactly be super comfortable here…Mods are great! It's just that modding tools need to be intuitive and user-friendly, they need proper documentation, they have to be stable… if we want to meet our deadline, then we only have one year to finish this game. With all the stretch goals and community rewards included. If we promised modding tools or a GM mode on top of all that, it would likely end in tears.
And what exactly is the problem with them being Russian?
Its an issue of extra work localizing it to English is what he saying

https://owlcatgames.com/forums/showt…ull=1#post1223

Originally Posted by Berserkerkitten Community Manager
…Language is another factor. The team is based in Russia and most of the guys don't speak a lot of English. It's one thing translating quest text, stories, item names and other such things for a game. But imagine you had a complex toolset for a game, which allowed you to create characters, items, monsters, branching dialoge, set flags, do everything it takes to create your very own adventure and the whole thing was in a foreign language. And it was your job to translate all these features and functions and possibly a manual.
Oh, to answer your earlier question, Omikron Persei 8.
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Last edited by Lucky Day; July 1st, 2018 at 06:26.
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July 1st, 2018, 04:36
Thing is, NWN was designed to be modded. Pillars, Tyranny and PFK are all Unity-based, so I reckon modding won't exactly be super comfortable here…
Obsidian has already promised to develop a modding toolkit for Deadfire
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July 1st, 2018, 04:48
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
Obsidian has already promised to develop a modding toolkit for Deadfire
Yes, after the full game was released. The community manager for Kingmaker was just confirming there will be no modding tools available at the time of initial release, who knows what might happen in future?
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July 1st, 2018, 05:44
Okay, now I understand what you are talking about. I was more talking about your claim that unity is not moddable. There is a big difference between a dev team not taking the time to localise their toolkit than an engine not being moddable.
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July 1st, 2018, 05:52
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Okay, now I understand what you are talking about. I was more talking about your claim that unity is not moddable. There is a big difference between a dev team not taking the time to localise their toolkit than an engine not being moddable.
Yep but its true to say I don't see any expansions or mods I personally want to play for Tyranny, Pillars,or Wasteland 2. Though Shadowrun had a few good modules.

Heck Larian released mod tools for Original Sin 1&2, and the mods are not plentiful. All I see are game-play changes, textures, and hardly any expansion mods like NWN 1&2.
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
Yes, after the full game was released. The community manager for Kingmaker was just confirming there will be no modding tools available at the time of initial release, who knows what might happen in future?
Hope they do and that modder's actually make modules this time.
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July 1st, 2018, 06:11
This is Owlcat's first release. From a business standpoint, it makes no sense spending resources on a toolkit, when they're trying to secure their first game. After it's released and proven successful, then it's much easier for them to start being flexible and creative, knowing that they have a guaranteed audience and income stream. They also have a partnership with Paizo, so there's licensing particulars they have to consider. I'm sure once it's released and done well, we will start seeing them consider multiplayer/toolkits/DM tools, etc. Probably not for this release, but for a sequel (kind of like what Runic did with Torchlight/Torchlight 2).
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July 1st, 2018, 06:37
I disagree. Pathfinder, as lame as it may be, already has an established system and world.

By allowing the community to create their own adventures, this game could be the definitive Pathfinder experience. That's what made Neverwinter Nights great.
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July 1st, 2018, 07:06
And I disagree with you once again, @Silver Coin .

Yes, it may have established world/lore but having established P&P system is different to having a established engine/ruleset and fan base for the PC game itself. For one, I haven't even heard of Pathfinder universe until Kingmaker was announced.

It is a much safer and smarter bet to see how base game is received before committing to modding tools.
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July 1st, 2018, 07:20
Pathfinder has a very dedicated fanbase. At one point it was even bigger than D&D. I guarantee you that if this game had modding tools the community would be all over it.
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July 1st, 2018, 08:00
Guarentees based on wishful thinking and imaginary facts are of limited use, though.

If the game is a success and enough people embrace it, then - and only then - will we have some idea of whether modding tools would be worth it.

Look at Sword Coast Legends. That was D&D. I think we can all agree that simply being based on a popular system isn't enough to magically make people care enough. It also has to be a good game that falls in line with what people want.

That said, modding tools is never a bad thing for the consumers. It's just that developers have limited time and resources - and they have to weigh their options carefully.

They don't have the luxury of assumptions - especially not when they're trying to establish a foothold for the first time.

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July 1st, 2018, 09:56
I certainly prefer a good bugfree release to having mod tools.

Not every game needs a big mod scene.
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