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October 15th, 2019, 00:36
Originally Posted by porcozaur View Post
A list without gothic 1 or 2 is not a serious one.
What do you mean? They are both on there…number 51 and number 51.
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October 15th, 2019, 00:38
I don't see the article as being much more than clickbait, and it's not even good clickbait.
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October 15th, 2019, 02:12
It's not the list I would make, but from the comments here, I can tell that none of you would make the list I would make either. That's par for the course with these lists.

The only opinion I'll share re: the list is that their timing kinda sucks. They waited four years since the last one, but couldn't wait another six months? There are several games coming out soon with the potential to catapult themselves onto such a list.
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October 15th, 2019, 10:35
Stopped reading the list at 1. Dark Souls.
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October 15th, 2019, 20:22
Been playing RPGs for decades but I wouldn't even feel qualified to make such a list. I'm sure I've played at least 50 RPGS, but have not completed many of those I played and there's also many popular ones I had no interest in trying because I expect I wouldn't enjoy them. If the list seems random it's probably because each RPS staff member named a few of their favorites and the RPGs which got the most "votes" moved to the top of the list. I'm sure if RPGWatch readers or staff voted on the top PC RPGs I'd disagree with most of the results too.

Only thing these lists are good for is skimming to see if there's anything I haven't heard of or haven't yet played. But it's not worth getting worked up over disagreements. Most people are wrong about most things most of the time. Such is life.
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October 16th, 2019, 01:23
I would agree with only one game on that list in the top 10, Divinity: Original Sin 2 (new entry), but only if it was the DOS 1, a much better game.

Outside of that, just no. Dark Souls as 1? Really, I don't even think of that as an RPG, it's more of an action game.
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October 16th, 2019, 01:24
Originally Posted by srabuseen View Post
Stopped reading the list at 1. Dark Souls.
Yeah, that list has to have been made by someone who doesn't even know what a RPG is.
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October 16th, 2019, 01:25
Originally Posted by bizorker View Post
What do you mean? They are both on there…number 51 and number 51.
They should both be in the top 20, if not top 10.
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October 16th, 2019, 05:06
Gothic 1&2 are easily top 10 imo.

Also, where's Baldur's Gate? How do you have BG2 at #3 and not have BG1 in the top 50?

Better yet, how do you have Stardew Valley as the 14th best RPG and ahead of games like V:TM-B, Fallout, and Ultima VII?

Those are rhetorical questions of course. The list was obvious made by someone with disabilities, but I commend RPS for hiring him/her. Everyone deserves a chance.
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October 16th, 2019, 13:33
I suspect you are the one with disabilities given your lack of ability to understand the criteria used for their list.

However if you were actually able to read and understand their criteria (you can read can't you?) you might begin to understand how they formulated their list.

This is not to say I agree with their list or disagree with those who have suggested games have that should be on the list but rather that just because their methodology differs does not mean that they are the one who are deficient. Rather I would suggest that your rather lack of cognitive flexibility and use of insults to cover your lack of imagination that makes you more than marginally deficient.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post

Those are rhetorical questions of course. The list was obvious made by someone with disabilities, but I commend RPS for hiring him/her. Everyone deserves a chance.
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October 16th, 2019, 16:31
Originally Posted by you View Post
I suspect you are the one with disabilities given your lack of ability to understand the criteria used for their list.

However if you were actually able to read and understand their criteria (you can read can't you?) you might begin to understand how they formulated their list.

This is not to say I agree with their list or disagree with those who have suggested games have that should be on the list but rather that just because their methodology differs does not mean that they are the one who are deficient. Rather I would suggest that your rather lack of cognitive flexibility and use of insults to cover your lack of imagination that makes you more than marginally deficient.
My comment was an obvious jest which makes me think you're the deficient one in this case. I do apologize though if my joke hit close to home for you.
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October 16th, 2019, 16:36
*sigh* can you please not quote direct followup replies, now I'm forced to see what I ignore for like 2 years already.
In fact… Why did you reply on that blathering at all, I mean dafuq is with disabilities, lol

Yea, yea, you're doing it on purpose of drama, but still.
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October 16th, 2019, 17:13
Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
I would agree with only one game on that list in the top 10, Divinity: Original Sin 2 (new entry), but only if it was the DOS 1, a much better game.

Outside of that, just no. Dark Souls as 1? Really, I don't even think of that as an RPG, it's more of an action game.
Why wouldn’t you consider DS an RPG?

It’s got stats, classes, character progression ,loot, exploration, npc’s, quests and a story even if vaguely told.

What’s it missing?
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October 16th, 2019, 17:38
I personally would consider it more of an action game than rpg since you don't make very many choices. Lots of shooters have stats, loot and exploration and such. To be honest it is more of an opinion than fact and a grey area (imho) forms between the obvious non-rpg and the obvious-rpg (of course one person obvious rpg might be another person obvious non-rpg so this isn't horribly helpful )

Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Why wouldn’t you consider DS an RPG?

It’s got stats, classes, character progression ,loot, exploration, npc’s, quests and a story even if vaguely told.

What’s it missing?
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October 16th, 2019, 18:16
Originally Posted by you View Post
I personally would consider it more of an action game than rpg since you don't make very many choices. Lots of shooters have stats, loot and exploration and such. To be honest it is more of an opinion than fact and a grey area (imho) forms between the obvious non-rpg and the obvious-rpg (of course one person obvious rpg might be another person obvious non-rpg so this isn't horribly helpful )
Actually there are choices to be made. NPC quests have multiple branches but most just end up in loot or wether or not they can help you later. DS 1&2 have 2 endings but its just a choice at the end of the game to choose one or the other. DS3 actually has 4 endings depending on choices throughout the game. The choice are mostly actions though not dialogue choices.

So there are some choices to be made but admittedly pretty limited.

I wouldn’t consider C&C a requirement of an RPG but as you said the term RPG has become more of a subjective term rather than objective.
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October 16th, 2019, 18:25
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Why wouldn’t you consider DS an RPG?

It’s got stats, classes, character progression ,loot, exploration, npc’s, quests and a story even if vaguely told.

What’s it missing?
I was puzzled as well. To me Dark Souls qualify as an quintessential RPG and its in my top 10 list

Dark Souls scores very heavily on everything you mentioned.

I think to some people, "action combat" automatically implies not an RPGs but to me that just silly. To me Dark Souls is far more of RPG than say Skyrim yet no one will question Skyrim status as RPG and Skyrim does have its form of "action combat" as well! Dark souls scores more than Skyrim in every point you mentioned above. Only think Skyrim has over Dark Souls is open world but one can argue that zone design in Dark Souls is far superiors to Skyrim.
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October 16th, 2019, 18:32
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
The choice are mostly actions though not dialogue choices.
Choices and consequences doesn't have to be limited to dialogue yet that what most people here means but I think thats very limiting and narrow way of looking at.

C&C starts with character creation. It can start from the way your character looks to the stats and skills your character choices. You picked alchemy over lock pick? Well sorry you can't open that huge chest. This is C&C at its finest. Dark Souls is full such C&C and I would argue it has more C&C than some other games people here claim as RPG.
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October 16th, 2019, 18:52
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Dark Souls scores very heavily on everything you mentioned.
Eh? While I agree it has those things, not all of them score heavily. I wouldn't rate the exploration, NPC's, or story very high.

There's exploration within limits, but it doesn't compare well to a lot of other open-world games. The NPC's have very little dialogue and barely animate outside of combat. And the story…well, even most fans will agree there's not much of one.
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October 17th, 2019, 06:13
I usually like these kinds of lists but this one isn't making sense to me. It says it's the top 50 you can play right now? Deus Ex and System Shock 2?? Both of those games were awesome for their time but their time has LONG passed. And Daggerfall!? Seriously!?

The list makes more sense if you consider how great games were. If it's a "which RPGs were most fun for you" list instead of a "RPGs you are most likely to recommend to a friend right now" list then I definitely would be putting those three games up there. But then why is there only one Ultima? Where are Final Fantasy 6 and 7?
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October 17th, 2019, 16:46
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Eh? While I agree it has those things, not all of them score heavily. I wouldn't rate the exploration, NPC's, or story very high.

There's exploration within limits, but it doesn't compare well to a lot of other open-world games. The NPC's have very little dialogue and barely animate outside of combat. And the story…well, even most fans will agree there's not much of one.
<DS fan boy mode on>

Exploration - We may have different definition as to what is good or bad exploration but I rate exploration in Dark Souls just under or on par with Gothic games. You are rewarded for exploring each nooks and crannies. There are hidden items everywhere, there are hidden paths which makes travelling lot easier if you find them. How many games these days even have hidden paths? DS3 is bit linear but DS1 the world and maps inter connects and loop around and you can pretty much go anywhere you like. You have to explore the map to learn paths so that you can travel safely etc. You have even do that in DS3 as well. Lothric castle at the end is huge and maze. There are loads of other shorts cuts everywhere in DS3 as well and many people miss them.

NPC - Yes NPC doesn't say much themselves or nor do they animate much as well but Dark Souls NPCs have depth and story. They leave a huge impression on your yet a 1000 line NPC on another game (looking at you modern Bioware) can feel shallow. Their story is presented to you in bit and pieces like a puzzle and in many cases not via the NPC themselves. The one things you can say about the NPC is that they are also sad and miserable bunch but what do you except in a world like DS.

Story - Darks Souls doesn't have story? I hope you were joking But you are right people do argue if DS has story or not but I think it has amazing story. You know what the beauty of DS story? Even among players who think DS has an amazing story, no two players agrees on what exactly the story is! Even leaving this aside, most NPCs in DS has a story, buildings in DS have story, items in dark souls have a story, bosses in DS has story and even some trash mobs have story! When you put them all together, DS has far better stories other many other RPGs. The big difference is that in DS, the stories themselves are also a game.

<DS fan boy mode off>
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