Gothic - Series 75% Off on Steam

I don't see much of an issue with the example you gave. Beyond that, you can nitpick any RPG ever made and find the same stuff (and IMO, to much worse degree than PB games. They are actually some of the best in the "realism" type areas.) I could also give you 10 examples of awesome creature/world/quest design in Gothic all the same, things that you rarely, if ever, see in RPGs even today.

To each their own, I guess.
 
What about Gothic 3? Was nearly unplayable (to most normal people) until huge community patches fixed it. Am I wrong?

Plus... Realism? PB games feature unlimited inventory. 16 suits of chainmail? 14 swords? 110 hammers? 32 helmets? Sure, why not? I can carry more.
 
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Ya I've tried multiple times to finish and am about 20 hours into Gothic 1 too. I've explored a lot but I'm kind of stuck trying to finish the old camp quests, I should probably look at a walk through. Maybe one day. Am waiting to finish that before trying 2.

Funnily enough, I've been playing a bit of Gothic 4, ahem, I mean Arcania lately just for laughs. To be completely honest it grabs me about as much as Gothic 1. Yeah, yeah, blasphemy! From what I've seen, both games are so so, average fantasy rpg fair. Yeah, more heresy. I think there's a bit of rose coloured glasses going on around here but maybe if/when I finish G1 I'll feel different.

Re Gothic 3, something I also recently discovered.... The 1.75 community patch is available under public beta's on the Steam app, which is very handy.
 
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What about Gothic 3? Was nearly unplayable (to most normal people) until huge community patches fixed it. Am I wrong?

Plus… Realism? PB games feature unlimited inventory. 16 suits of chainmail? 14 swords? 110 hammers? 32 helmets? Sure, why not? I can carry more.

Again, you can point out things like this in any RPG. It's the total package that PB offers, which is generally more realistic and low-fantasy than other RPGs, in a good way.

Gothic 3 I recently played for 50 hours. Had a blast. All I used was the official patch and Alternative Balancing + Alternative AI (which have issues, I believe they are fan-made, but still fun.) Great game. Even their world design is still stellar, 11 years later. That game had a fucked up release based on whatever issues at the time, and IMO is not entirely finished even today, but it's still fun. With a lot of interesting and unique elements (like all their games.)

If you've found the perfect RPG with zero flaws at all, please share, because all I know are these Imperfect Perfections like the Gothic series, Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls and so on.
 
Zero flaws? Of course not. But again... consider the opinions here vs. the vast majority of opinions about these games.

Even Elex has the same 3 factions with a different skin! Risen 3 was complete garbage... can you REALLY defend the "witch doctor" NPC/companion character? The immortal NPCs? The endless bird-fights? (just keep dodging and your immortal friend will do all the work). The terrible face animations, the laughable voice acting?

I really liked Risen 1 FWIW, and thought PB might be on to something better. R2 made it clear that PB still sucks.
 
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Alrighty. I guess you need an RPG with better facial animations then, dunno.

And why would I care about "the vast majority of opinions"? ELEX has a review rating of Mostly Positive with over 4100 reviews on Steam. If you're trying to somehow prove that people hate PB's games, that will be a losing effort.
 
Fluent's right, each has it's merits, all have flaws. Try having an open mind and enjoy them for what they are, that's what I do. It helps to never buy anything for full price and at release ;)
 
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Alrighty. I guess you need an RPG with better facial animations then, dunno..

Well, now you are arguing in bad faith. Facial animations was one of the very last things I mentioned. But, go ahead and ignore all my other points.

Also: "Hey!" as a recurring voice acting response is simply PB awesome.
 
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Well, now you are arguing in bad faith. Facial animations was one of the very last things I mentioned. But, go ahead and ignore all my other points.

Also: "Hey!" as a recurring voice acting response is simply PB awesome.

It's not bad faith, it's just pointless. Pick any RPG at all and point out something you think is a flaw. What's the point as all games got 'em? It's about the total package of a game, not some bad individual elements (which again, all games have.)

And your comment about PB sucking and then using mainstream opinions is flawed, because again, ELEX is Mostly Positive with 4100+ reviews on Steam. Those people don't think it sucks.

And IMO, PB's good elements in their games all outweigh the bad stuff by a great deal. With a heavier emphasis on ELEX, Gothic 1-3, Risen 1 (with 2 and 3 both being good, but their weakest entries for me personally.)
 
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Fluent's right, each has it's merits, all have flaws. Try having an open mind and enjoy them for what they are, that's what I do. It helps to never buy anything for full price and at release ;)

I cosign the first 2 sentences, but I'm 'ehhh' on the 3rd. :)

These days I (sometimes) try to pay full price for games I like. That's not always the case as sometimes my desire to play the games outweighs the depth of my pockets at that moment and I buy it on sale, but I try to buy full price when I can. This is my way of casting a vote for the game in the best way I can. Sometimes I buy multiple copies to give away, and I'd do that more but I don't have the extra cash right now to go wild with that. I'd like to, though.
 
I can understand that. I very, very rarely feel excited about new games these days so it's easy to hold off. It's my way of avoiding bug ridden state of so many releases and feeling butthurt if something doesn't live up to the hype. Waiting a while helps to ensure you have a complete game. Plus I like mods, playing something a while after it comes out often lets me have those available from the get go too. That said on the rare occasion something does appear I'll jump on board. I've pony'd up for the NWN:EE deluxe pre-release 'cash grab' for example - am perfectly happy with that.
 
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Eh, Steam reviews are from people who put money into the game… In other words, fans, fan-boys and people who decided it was good enough to buy from the start.

Why are the overwhelming number of bad or so-so reviews online (outside of Steam) "mainstream"? and is mainstream a bad thing?

And here we are. You ignore most of my points and then tell me it's a good game because of Steam reviews. Whatever… I'm simply fascinated by the level of vehement support these lame games get from people on this site. We don't have to agree… I'm sure you love them. It should be at least a little odd for you to see that most opinions do not agree with yours.
 
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Heh… always reliable fan boys defending PB games here. Hey, by the way… the witch doctor character in Risen 3? Any comments on that abomination?

Bones? I actually love him. :D He's the dude I use the most, but I haven't beaten Risen 3 yet (I abandoned it to play Gothic 3 and then ELEX when it released.) Used him a lot in Risen 2, though.

As for fan boy, okay. I am a fan of their games, for sure. But I'm not really interested in "defending" them. I do however find it odd to pick on the bottom feeder RPG devs in the way some people do. Like, go after the big dogs who are adding microtransactions and dumbing games down, not the niche-of-the-niche who are doing it for a fanbase that likes their stuff. :)
 
Nah, I just like talking about PB games. This is probably the only place online where PB games are revered. I guess you guys have the "everyone else is crazy!" defense. Pretty much everyone disagrees and finds these games to be… sub-par.

I don't think you actually visit many other forums besides The Watch. Not everyone likes PB's games, but the general opinion about them is usually pretty high. Even most of the misanthropes at The Codex are pretty big on them. Same goes for the Steam forums.

Or maybe you just enjoy being full of shit. :)
 
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I couldn't get into the Gothics either. Tried all of them multiple times and liked G3 the best of the bunch. Controls, poor graphics, mildly dull art palette, mage skills always come late in the game, etc. However, I loved Risen 3. Thought it was really fun. Elex was okay. I keep buying the PB games and get enough out of them to be worth the price. Elex was the first that I bought on release, I think.

I don't hate them, just kind of average.
 
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I can understand that. I very, very rarely feel excited about new games these days so it's easy to hold off. It's my way of avoiding bug ridden state of so many releases and feeling butthurt if something doesn't live up to the hype. Waiting a while helps to ensure you have a complete game. Plus I like mods, playing something a while after it comes out often lets me have those available from the get go too. That said on the rare occasion something does appear I'll jump on board. I've pony'd up for the NWN:EE deluxe pre-release 'cash grab' for example - am perfectly happy with that.

Interesting, because the last game I bought was NWN:EE as well. Full price. Siege of Dragonspear, too. Will probably grab a second copy of NWN:EE to give away soon.

As for Gothic, it's not really a "this is average vs. this is high quality" thing. To me, Gothic 1 & 2 deliver a style of game that isn't done today (other than ELEX and other PB games.) The combination of:

1. Handcrafted, detailed "open-world" to explore with no level scaling.
2. Slow, meaningful character progression in a system that has "locks" in place to keep you from either killing enemies too quickly or becoming too powerful, too soon.
3. Choice of factions that each have their own quirks, quests, lore and story.
4. Gameplay Choice & Consequence as well as Story C&C, in that you have to choose your playstyle and develop it carefully.
5. In the case of Gothic 1, an excellent, unparalleled setting that was realized to a very high degree (G2 is good, too, but G1 is one of the best ever, IMO.)
6. "Low excitement" type of experience, you aren't fighting dragons at level 1 nor throwing giant fireballs of death at the start of the game (fighting a dragon is a "big deal", and finally being able to successfully cast a fireball is a great achievement.)
7. That sort of reward for your effort counts for every aspect of the game. As you level up, small increments actually make a very noticeable difference (a new tier of magic is rewarding to unlock, feels awesome when you finally reach destinations rather than being rewarded like a Skinner Box every 10 seconds. Or pressing a button and Something Awesome happening, i.e. instant gratification. Gothic lacks this on purpose.)
8. Quirky and funny characters and humor. The Nameless Hero from Gothic was hilariously snarky. Risen guy was, eh, forgettable. ELEX Dude is cool, but I digress.
9. And just generally good story and gameplay for my money.

That said, many of their principles, i.e. the Gothic Formula, aren't really done in RPGs nowadays, and certainly not in the package that PB puts together. Most open-worlds feature level-scaling, or some form of system that lets you "go anywhere, do anything" at any level. At least ELEX and recent PB games have areas you simply can't go until you're stronger, giving another strong sense of progression and reward for your time as you progress.

So that's why I strongly support PB for the past years since I've learned of them. Played Gothic 1 in 2013-ish, loved it, and recently finished G2. G3 is cool but a different (yet still great) experience. G4 is not worth mentioning and not a PB game, either.

Not sure why you'd call that stuff lame when it's a niche that isn't being served in other RPGs. It's like complaining that your local mom and pop, no-money-making no-name record shop only has rare jazz records and no metal or pop music. Go to a different store then, simple. :) But if you want to rage against games or game devs I'd focus on the ones that set the trends and only focus on money-making in the industry now, which PB is clearly NOT doing (who else would make ELEX like they did in 2017? They easily could have abandoned their principles and done a Witcher 3, but they didn't.)

Yeehaw. Just had a cup of coffee and felt like sharing. Now *%$# off. :)
 
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