JFarrell71
SasqWatch
Probably makes me an outlier, but while I think BG2 did it about as good as its ever been done by that sort of game (to this day), I think lots of games have surpassed BG1. Both Pillars of Eternity games, for starters.
Baldur's Gate 2: EE - Patch 2.6 released
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Probably makes me an outlier, but while I think BG2 did it about as good as its ever been done by that sort of game (to this day), I think lots of games have surpassed BG1. Both Pillars of Eternity games, for starters.
Same here cos i want to play some…
And no one gives a shit about Larian success i was playing their games well before they made Dos 1…I just don't like hype trains that is all i care about the features the game brings. Same thing was with witcher 3 the hype on that shit man one empty vilague after another. i guess all npcs with sidequests and dialogues jumped on the hype train and rolled out of the game.
Bg 1 is not a masterpiece at all…. Bg 2 on the other had and if people can't see the difference well… fuck it
Explains why we keep getting crapy rpgs and why i desperately browse this page and the likes for a breath of fresh air that never comes…
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Hmm…lets see…
- Atom RPG
- Encased
- NeverWinter Nights
- NeverWinter Nights 2
- Pathfinder: Kingmaker
- Pillars of Eternity
- Pillar of Eternity 2
- Torment Tides of Numenera
- Tyranny
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BG1, in particular, is still one of my enduring favorites.
"(tablet/mobile updates coming soon)"
I assume and I hope that means they are updating to modern devices and resolutions to make the older games playable again. I hope that means they are updating them to what they did with Neverwinter Nights on Android, because that actually works quite nicely. I'd very much like to play Baldur's Gate on my spiffy new phone.
"(tablet/mobile updates coming soon)"
I assume and I hope that means they are updating to modern devices and resolutions to make the older games playable again. I hope that means they are updating them to what they did with Neverwinter Nights on Android, because that actually works quite nicely. I'd very much like to play Baldur's Gate on my spiffy new phone.
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N
Nereida
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Well you can't repeat the "upbringing" that BG+Torment brought to the CRPG genre the same way no JRPG can repeat the Final Fantasy VII effect had in the west. But again, plenty of JRPGs that are better than Final Fantasy VII and plenty of western RPGs that are better than BG, or at least so good that it comes down to opinion/personal preference.
Here are some of the games I feel I enjoyed as much or more than the BG franchise, and I'd value them as much in terms of RPG quality:
Pillars of Eternity 1
Pillars of Eternity 2
Divinity Original Sin 1
Divinity Original Sin 2
Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Wasteland 2
Fallout 1
Fallout 2
Underrail
Dragon Age Origins
Just to mention a few, staying within the isometric/party based field. I can't mention older games because I wasn't mature enough to play them, but if we expand to any kind of RPG then we can start throwing in there things like Mass Effect, Witcher, some of the Elder Scrolls games, Fallout New Vegas, the Zeldas, the Gothics, Vampire, Wizardry, and an endless array of games that have nothing to envy when put against old relics that were benefitted most by the point in time in which they were released.
EDIT: I didn't mention Neverwinter Nights mostly because I think the OC was average, but no CRPG has given me nearly as many hours of pure entertainment as that game, simply because of its online persistent worlds, though you could say that's more like playing Roll20 with graphics than an actual computer RPG.
Here are some of the games I feel I enjoyed as much or more than the BG franchise, and I'd value them as much in terms of RPG quality:
Pillars of Eternity 1
Pillars of Eternity 2
Divinity Original Sin 1
Divinity Original Sin 2
Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Wasteland 2
Fallout 1
Fallout 2
Underrail
Dragon Age Origins
Just to mention a few, staying within the isometric/party based field. I can't mention older games because I wasn't mature enough to play them, but if we expand to any kind of RPG then we can start throwing in there things like Mass Effect, Witcher, some of the Elder Scrolls games, Fallout New Vegas, the Zeldas, the Gothics, Vampire, Wizardry, and an endless array of games that have nothing to envy when put against old relics that were benefitted most by the point in time in which they were released.
EDIT: I didn't mention Neverwinter Nights mostly because I think the OC was average, but no CRPG has given me nearly as many hours of pure entertainment as that game, simply because of its online persistent worlds, though you could say that's more like playing Roll20 with graphics than an actual computer RPG.
I wouldn't say that makes you an outlier. I notice a lot of fans of the series strongly prefer one game over the other, and I think it's probably close to 50/50 as to which game is preferred.
I'm probably the outlier in that I enjoyed both games about equally. I could go more in depth as to why, but simply put, I think each game does certain aspects sigficantly better than the other.
I don't think most of the games mentioned so far are generally considered better than BG 1&2 by most people, but I agree it's subjective.
Even if we consider all of those to be on par, it only confirms what I'm saying. We can count on our fingers the number of games that have been able to match what BG 1&2 did on or near the same level, and that's in over two decades.
Even if we consider all of those to be on par, it only confirms what I'm saying. We can count on our fingers the number of games that have been able to match what BG 1&2 did on or near the same level, and that's in over two decades.
N
Nereida
Guest
True, but we're also talking about a very niche genre, the isometric CRPG. There isn't a tremendous amount of games to compare it against and yet a lot of games hold up the comparison.
You'll say some are subjective, and I agree, because honestly, to me what's subjective is to say that BG1+2 are irepeatable masterpieces when every time I try to replay them I quit in under an hour because I can't deal with how cheesy the dialogues are and how slow and clumsy the interface is to deal with. Every time I go back to replay Pillars of Eternity or Divinity Original Sin, I manage to come up with a new build or gameplay quirk that gives me another 60 hours of fun out of a game I thought I had completely exhausted.
So yeah, subjective, but both ways.
You'll say some are subjective, and I agree, because honestly, to me what's subjective is to say that BG1+2 are irepeatable masterpieces when every time I try to replay them I quit in under an hour because I can't deal with how cheesy the dialogues are and how slow and clumsy the interface is to deal with. Every time I go back to replay Pillars of Eternity or Divinity Original Sin, I manage to come up with a new build or gameplay quirk that gives me another 60 hours of fun out of a game I thought I had completely exhausted.
So yeah, subjective, but both ways.
Pillars of Eternity 2 you joking right ??? That one can't even deicide if its a rpg or sailing simulator. Bunch of empty island hoping for no reason and it wasn't 20 years ago like BG 1 with the empty maps.. None of those games on those lists are better. Dragon age:O got close maybe Neverwinter but still no game. Infact the more time goes on the harder it will be i guess cos of all the influance from multiplayer and consoles…At least that's what happening to BG 3 and dragon age …
Now you get a notification from your companions that they approve your choice
instead of actually participating in the dialogue and suddenly we are besties so whatever talk about party rpg heh.
Bunch of empty island hoping for no reason and it wasn't 20 years ago like BG 1 with the empty maps.. None of those games on those lists are better. Dragon age:O got close maybe Neverwinter but still no game. Infact the more time goes on the harder it will be i guess cos of all the influance from multiplayer and consoles…At least that's what happening to BG 3 and dragon age …Now you get a notification from your companions that they approve your choice
instead of actually participating in the dialogue and suddenly we are besties so whatever talk about party rpg heh.- Joined
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It's not really that niche a genre anymore. There are quite a few isometric party-based crpgs nowadays, especially if you include all the AA and indie titles, but I don't think most people would agree that a "lot" hold up to BG 1&2.
Personally, I don't think *any* game is a "irepeatable masterpiece" (I'm assuming you must have seen that said elsewhere since no one has said it here), but I do think there are certain games that haven't been done better up to this point in time.
I have to say though, it's pretty funny to see someone say BG has cheesy dialogue and then praise Divinity: OS in the very next sentence.
Personally, I don't think *any* game is a "irepeatable masterpiece" (I'm assuming you must have seen that said elsewhere since no one has said it here), but I do think there are certain games that haven't been done better up to this point in time.
I have to say though, it's pretty funny to see someone say BG has cheesy dialogue and then praise Divinity: OS in the very next sentence.
N
Nereida
Guest
I have to say though, it's pretty funny to see someone say BG has cheesy dialogue and then praise Divinity: OS in the very next sentence.
Well, the thing is DOS actually makes fun of itself. The narrator has this cheeky tone and you can feel the smirk on his face as he goes through the lines he speaks. It is cheesy because it's trying to. In the other hand, BG tries to take itself seriously (Or I think so anyway!).
Again, matter of personal taste, which will always be fair.
I think I just started playing RPGs too late. I tried playing BG2, but the interface and graphics put me off. That's in addition to the game being RTwP which makes it hard for me to enjoy.
I don't doubt that it must have been a masterpiece at the time, and I probably would have enjoyed it, had I bought it then. But now, it's just very difficult to get into.
Having said that - and knowing I cannot judge the game properly - I think there are certainly some games in similar veins that are a lot of fun today. Pathfinder : Kingmaker is probably the most obvious one with its sequel coming soon.
I know I am not adding too much to the conversation - just my opinion.
I don't doubt that it must have been a masterpiece at the time, and I probably would have enjoyed it, had I bought it then. But now, it's just very difficult to get into.
Having said that - and knowing I cannot judge the game properly - I think there are certainly some games in similar veins that are a lot of fun today. Pathfinder : Kingmaker is probably the most obvious one with its sequel coming soon.
I know I am not adding too much to the conversation - just my opinion.
Yeah, I'm just teasing you there. I'm actually playing D:OS right now. About halfway through the Phantom Forest, but it's taken me over a year to get to this point.
I love the combat, but otherwise I don't find the game nearly as compelling as I want to. The story is all over the place, but that's par for Larian.
BG has some cheesy bits, but it's used a lot more sparingly by comparison. I'm not a fan of the way Larian constantly beats you over the head with it in their older titles. Thankfully, they knew better than to attempt that in BG 3.
Seeing the discussion, I'm wondering if BG1 and/or BG2 did not simply have a good balance in their features (and perhaps the first ones to have that balance, hence earning and keeping this 1st prize). They have been surpassed by quite a few other games in some areas, but those new games had something to displease.
For example, Kingmaker has a great story, a great ruleset, memorable companions and enemies, and so on. But it has the kingdom management.
PoE2 is great on the story, companions, atmosphere, but the series has a weird ruleset, and many people didn't like the ship sequence (I think they made it less annoying since then).
NWN had this OC problem, though I don't see any issue with the DLCs. That's the one which left the best memories in my case but I haven't played them all (not BG2 in particular). I'm probably biased on this one.
D:OS 2 is superb in many ways, but there's the AoE and the dual armour.
And so on. Except minor annoyances like the pathfinding, there isn't such a problem standing out for Baldur's Gate 1 & 2.
For example, Kingmaker has a great story, a great ruleset, memorable companions and enemies, and so on. But it has the kingdom management.
PoE2 is great on the story, companions, atmosphere, but the series has a weird ruleset, and many people didn't like the ship sequence (I think they made it less annoying since then).
NWN had this OC problem, though I don't see any issue with the DLCs. That's the one which left the best memories in my case but I haven't played them all (not BG2 in particular). I'm probably biased on this one.
D:OS 2 is superb in many ways, but there's the AoE and the dual armour.
And so on. Except minor annoyances like the pathfinding, there isn't such a problem standing out for Baldur's Gate 1 & 2.
Is their Android version of Baldur's Gate bad? They recommend to use that on 7" at least, but it's the same recommendation for NWN.
Carnifex
SasqWatch
In their day, I simply loved both Baldur games, and the newest iterations from Beam Dog only improves them both. Having said that, I'd seriously doubt I'd ever replay either again, I can think of dozens of games that I enjoy more, namely many rpg-maker types, Trails series, Pillars, Might and Magic, Wizardry, etc.
How to make a great CRpg you take lets say Witcher 3 engine as empty husk add companions, birds eye view camera that doesn't completely suxs so you can actually give orders….
FIll up the the empty world with Bg 2 like stories quests, monsters, simple main story adventure with good arch enemy. Slap in everyday plain Joe/Jane MC and voila, would sell millions. Pretty much what they did with Final Fantasy nowday by the looks of things.
FIll up the the empty world with Bg 2 like stories quests, monsters, simple main story adventure with good arch enemy. Slap in everyday plain Joe/Jane MC and voila, would sell millions. Pretty much what they did with Final Fantasy nowday by the looks of things.
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It hasn't worked right on my last two phones. Resolution problem. It runs, but there's a huge black border around it, making the already small text even harder to read. NWN works like a charm. Also, my current phone is small-tablet sized. On my older phones, BG worked fine and filled the screen, though I personally found the text too small.
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Nereida
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I just think it's impossible to compare games that belong to different generations. It happens in every setting, like people comparing a basketball player that played in the 80's with current ones. The setting, the expectations, the competition, the professionalism are all different, and mindset of people who judge those things is different itself, you can't make any fair comparison.
To me BG1+2 were masterpieces 20 years ago, lucky those who enjoyed them then. BG3+Pathfinder+Solasta might be masterpieces of 2021/2022? We'll see, but the judgement should be based on how good these games are at the time when they are released, not compared to a warped memory of something that happened 20 years ago that is, for the most part, an augmented vestige, a fabrication of the brain, and any psychiatrist will tell you so.
To me BG1+2 were masterpieces 20 years ago, lucky those who enjoyed them then. BG3+Pathfinder+Solasta might be masterpieces of 2021/2022? We'll see, but the judgement should be based on how good these games are at the time when they are released, not compared to a warped memory of something that happened 20 years ago that is, for the most part, an augmented vestige, a fabrication of the brain, and any psychiatrist will tell you so.
That argument might actually have some merit if everyone who's played them had done it 20 years ago.