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March 1st, 2020, 20:42
Owlcat's goal was 300k and they are at 1.5mil. so it's already been a pretty successful Kickstarter. I'm sure they will clear 2 million. Ironically, it will Owlcat that will make a better Baldur's Gate 3 than Larian…
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March 1st, 2020, 20:44
If you like RTwP, then I suppose you'd like what you see in this video… for me, I felt like I was watching an RTS. *shrug*

Regardless, I'm glad they're doing TB in the game. It made it a purchase for me, whereas I wouldn't have touched it otherwise. While I liked a lot of the first game, I did not like the RTwP implementation in it.

I don't know if this somewhat-recent phenomena of adding TB to RTwP games (PoE 2) is indicative of more gamers wanting TB - or just showing that dev studios want to do more for their entire audience, but either way, in the case of these games, there's really nothing for either side to complain about because both get their ideal combat system.
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March 1st, 2020, 20:45
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
Im just saying the gap between great start and low middle is eye-striking compared to big kickstarter campaigns in past. That has nothing to do with curve or where its trending, because it doesnt contradict neither.
Yes I think it's just your perception.
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March 1st, 2020, 20:46
Originally Posted by SSIGuy View Post
If you like RTwP, then I suppose you'd like what you see in this video… for me, I felt like I was watching an RTS. *shrug*

Regardless, I'm glad they're doing TB in the game. It made it a purchase for me, whereas I wouldn't have touched it otherwise. While I liked a lot of the first game, I did not like the RTwP implementation in it.

I don't know if this somewhat-recent phenomena of adding TB to RTwP games (PoE 2) is indicative of more gamers wanting TB - or just showing that dev studios want to do more for their entire audience, but either way, in the case of these games, there's really nothing for either side to complain about because both get their ideal combat system.
Or its easier to make TB game playable on consoles, compared RtWP …
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March 1st, 2020, 20:47
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
The complexity of tactics needed to succeed in the battles of Kingmaker was very high in the last 1/3 of the game. Granted at the beginning there were some battles you could get through with just basic attacks, but these were mostly "in between battles" with battles against major opponents being quite challenging (for me at least).
I just beat the boggard champion last night. Took some tactics for that and some luck.

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March 1st, 2020, 21:40
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
The complexity of tactics needed to succeed in the battles of Kingmaker was very high in the last 1/3 of the game. Granted at the beginning there were some battles you could get through with just basic attacks, but these were mostly "in between battles" with battles against major opponents being quite challenging (for me at least).
I'll take your word for it, I couldn't get there through all the bugs, redundant maps and encounters and general quality decay that the game suffered past the point where you can access the "Realm Management" feature (or chore, depends on how you look at it). I also played in the previous to last level of difficulty because the max level of difficulty didn't add difficulty, just buffed creatures to the point of being mathematically impossible to win battles unless you basically won the lottery in every encounter, especially in the early stages of the game when you don't even have that many spells and gear to tweak and stack in your favour and it's more a question of rolling 20's and your enemies rolling 1's (atrocious design for a "difficulty slider" in a dice-roll based RPG if you ask me, but that would warrant a full new thread).

There was one fight I did enjoy because I took it way earlier than I should, some fire salamander thing that I found in a cave, and I also enjoyed the "demilich" fight you take early on at like level 3 or 4, but I swear the next generic goblin and worg encounter in yet another instance of the same "mountain slope" or "grassy mesa" map would have killed my sanity.

I do hope the new Pathfinder will be a good game, to me this is the perfect game to get into during low times when there's really not much else to play. And as someone said in another thread, better any kind of RPG than no RPG. It's not like we're swamped with infinite well budgeted RPGs to play.
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March 1st, 2020, 21:51
Funny how opinions can vary so much even between people who probably have many favourite games in common. I personally adore PF:KM (at least so far and I just wrapped up chapter 4). I've had a blast playing up until this point, and haven't encountered any bugs apart from the character sheets not showing all relevant information.

I also like the fact that many encounters can be won on auto-combat, as Chien would say it satisfies my urge to feel powerful, and I'm fine with the fact many encounters are just filler. On the other hand I've gotten total party wipes when I've gotten to cocky (took me perhaps 10 tries with varying tactics to bring down the Wicked chanter, worst one so far).
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March 1st, 2020, 21:55
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Funny how opinions can vary so much even between people who probably have many favourite games in common. I personally adore PF:KM (at least so far and I just wrapped up chapter 4). I've had a blast playing up until this point, and haven't encountered any bugs apart from the character sheets not showing all relevant information.

I also like the fact that many encounters can be won on auto-combat, as Chien would say it satisfies my urge to feel powerful, and I'm fine with the fact many encounters are just filler. On the other hand I've gotten total party wipes when I've gotten to cocky (took me perhaps 10 tries with varying tactics to bring down the Wicked chanter, worst one so far).
I'm happy that so many people are enjoying it so much.

I got a LOT of hours out of it myself, so there's no way I can claim it's bad.

Truth be told, I'm sort of "done" with this particular subgenre. Call it the BG clone or whatever.

I think CRPGs have moved on from that formula.

So it's not so much that PF:KM isn't great - it's just that I'm in a different place than I used to be.

Out of the modern BG clones (of which there aren't that many) - I'd rank it just behind PoE 2 - and well above PoE 1.

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March 1st, 2020, 23:05
Originally Posted by StintDArt View Post
I'm happy that so many people are enjoying it so much.

I got a LOT of hours out of it myself, so there's no way I can claim it's bad.

Truth be told, I'm sort of "done" with this particular subgenre. Call it the BG clone or whatever.

I think CRPGs have moved on from that formula.

So it's not so much that PF:KM isn't great - it's just that I'm in a different place than I used to be.

Out of the modern BG clones (of which there aren't that many) - I'd rank it just behind PoE 2 - and well above PoE 1.
I certainly enjoyed both PoE and PoE2, but would still put PF above them, can't say exactly why though but I suspect the familiarity and appreciation of DnD plays a large role.

In regards to the genre having moved on I might be inclined to agree, it's just that it's obviously moved in a direction I don't appreciate as much. Can't really think of a single modern RPG that I've enjoyed more, or even close to as much. Perhaps CP2077 has a shot at remedying that, but I won't hold my breath (partly because I would suffocate long before it's release). I would also classify it as a whole different genre to PF, so the comparison is lacking. Are there any modern party based cRPG's? DOS?
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March 1st, 2020, 23:07
Is POE2 really that much better than 1? Does the story continue?

I think I'm at the point where I'm going to give up on ever completing 1. The combats just ok, I'm not a big fan of the liberties Obsidian took with classes, mainly the monk and the story didn't grab me at all.

I'd give 2 a try if it's significantly better but if it's just more of the same then I'll probably just skip it.

OT, the poster of this video definitely doesn't do the game any favors playing it the way he did. Having said that that tactic is actually very effective and I've used it on a few hard battles to great success.
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March 1st, 2020, 23:29
If you don't enjoy PoE with expansions (I've finished it twice, once at release where I found it okish and again last year and that was a MUCH better experience), you might not enjoy PoE2 either. It's certainty the better game and they did improve on pretty much everything, but it's not THAT different. At least it wasn't to me.

It does continue the story and you can import the final save from PoE to have your choices carried over. But it's probably perfectly playable without having finished the first one as well.
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March 2nd, 2020, 00:46
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Is POE2 really that much better than 1? Does the story continue?.
I personally thought 2 was much better both in terms of gameplay and story. And I don't think you would be missing much in terms of the story if you don't finish 1. So if you are bored and still want to give 2 a try, I'd definitely say go for it.
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March 2nd, 2020, 01:03
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Is POE2 really that much better than 1? Does the story continue?

I think I'm at the point where I'm going to give up on ever completing 1. The combats just ok, I'm not a big fan of the liberties Obsidian took with classes, mainly the monk and the story didn't grab me at all.

I'd give 2 a try if it's significantly better but if it's just more of the same then I'll probably just skip it.

OT, the poster of this video definitely doesn't do the game any favors playing it the way he did. Having said that that tactic is actually very effective and I've used it on a few hard battles to great success.
Like others have said POE2 is a better game but it is still POE. I liked it better then POE1 but I have played POE1 through completely 3 times, twice with all the DLC.

POE2 I played through once so far. But that is because of my slight OCD … I only had one save left with POE1 to use … and I won't start POE2 knowing my character has an entire history from POE1 I never experienced. I can only play POE2 by importing my POE1 character.

So currently I am replaying POE1, when in the mood, so eventually I will have a new character to play in POE2
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March 2nd, 2020, 01:19
Thanks for the responses. I will probably give 1 one more try, it wouldn’t be the first time it took me 4 or 5 try’s to get in to a game. After that I’ll move to 2 if i finish or not. It took me 4 try’s to get into dark souls. I then played it 3 more times, played it’s equals multiple times and just named it my game of the decade. So there’s always hope.

You can only use your POE1 save once? If I finish i will be sure to make a copy of the save file then.
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March 2nd, 2020, 01:46
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Thanks for the responses. I will probably give 1 one more try, it wouldn’t be the first time it took me 4 or 5 try’s to get in to a game. After that I’ll move to 2 if i finish or not. It took me 4 try’s to get into dark souls. I then played it 3 more times, played it’s equals multiple times and just named it my game of the decade. So there’s always hope.

You can only use your POE1 save once? If I finish i will be sure to make a copy of the save file then.
Ah no, sorry I wasn't clear. You can use it over and over if you want. But A) I didn't want to play the exact same character twice and B) I didn't want to import my character from A and then make him something completely different .. I tried it it felt off in my head.

I played a Druid in POE1 and 2 completely. My next will be a ranger or a rogue (currently have both a rogue and ranger going through the start of POE1 to decide).

Unfortunately my head/brain/mind/what-have-you isn't always as cooperative/flexible as I would like. If a character feels "wrong" for whatever reason I won't be able to play them. Usually after a few hours I get a general feeling if a character feels right or not. I know that is vague but it isn't easy to really put into words.
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March 2nd, 2020, 02:37
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
Ah no, sorry I wasn't clear. You can use it over and over if you want. But A) I didn't want to play the exact same character twice and B) I didn't want to import my character from A and then make him something completely different .. I tried it it felt off in my head.

I played a Druid in POE1 and 2 completely. My next will be a ranger or a rogue (currently have both a rogue and ranger going through the start of POE1 to decide).

Unfortunately my head/brain/mind/what-have-you isn't always as cooperative/flexible as I would like. If a character feels "wrong" for whatever reason I won't be able to play them. Usually after a few hours I get a general feeling if a character feels right or not. I know that is vague but it isn't easy to really put into words.
Ah, that makes sense actually. I misunderstood.
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March 2nd, 2020, 04:54
I just started playing Pathfinder, and so far I'm not enjoying it as much as PoE. That could change though as I'm only in Chapter 1.

I'm not a fan of how they implemented travel on the world map, and I'm definitely not a fan of so many quests having time limits. I find myself constantly thinking of the in-game time/date rather than enjoying the game. I assume that feeling is going to get a lot worse once I reach the kingdom management part.

Combat seems really solid so far though, and I love the attention to detail in the game world.
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March 2nd, 2020, 05:05
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
I played a Druid in POE1 and 2 completely.
I was thinking of going Druid for a full run through both games. Did you use him in more of a support role, or could he hold his own on the front line? Did you dual-class him in PoE 2?

Also, did they ever tweak Spiritshift to make it more effective? I've read that it doesn't scale with levels and becomes useless after awhile, but I don't know if that's still accurate.
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March 2nd, 2020, 05:34
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I was thinking of going Druid for a full run through both games. Did you use him in more of a support role, or could he hold his own on the front line? Did you dual-class him in PoE 2?

Also, did they ever tweak Spiritshift to make it more effective? I've read that it doesn't scale with levels and becomes useless after awhile, but I don't know if that's still accurate.
EDIT: To avoid confusion I answered your POE question first, then wrote some notes on timers in Pathfinder

I played him as a mix of support and front line. He held his own in battle. My tactic was to put him up front after some spells then back out to heal if needed. Some battles he could just melee fine and others he was more effective as support. I did play on normal difficulty though. I also spent a lot of time shifted but then I like werewolves, and I went life-giver sub-class which made his healing spells more effective while shifted.

Shifter sub-class would probably be better for all front line perhaps. I enjoyed mixing it up though, and I tend to enjoy healing.

I have to say I fully enjoyed playing him and went single class to max out all spells. Running around in wolf form was fun (for me) and I enjoyed having a diverse mix of spells while also being decent at healing and support.

EDIT: On the timers and quests and kingdom. As someone who hates time quests or events, as I dislike the feeling of pressure/stress, I worried a lot about that. My second play through, however, didn't really notice the timers.

In retrospect I worried way too much about them in the first game. Mainly because I was not familiar with them. But in most cases you have ample time to get things done. Everyone has advice … here are my own personal things:

For chapter one I saved doing the Bandit Boss till the end, spending all my time exploring every thing I could. There is no penalty for doing it late. I did it with like 20 days left. Had nothing else to explore as the map won't open up till you get through the first chapter.

From then on out, with the kingdom and chapters I followed this guide:

- Focused on the main event/quest for the chapter, got it done and over with. Then I had complete freedom till the "go to the cursed place to end this chapter" which comes at the end of each big chapter (for the first few). I could explore, do quests, build the kingdom, etc. with no pressure. But then that is me in real life - get the work and chores done first on the weekend so I can relax for the rest of it.

- The main timer to watch is the "go to the cursed place at the end" as that is the only one you can get slammed with kingdom penalties. Make sure you don't start any long kingdom project or go too far away once the messages come up and you need to head there. Others in the thread mention this as well. But its easy to see the number of days you have before that "closing" part of the chapter.

- Some companion quests will fail if you wait too long. That happened to me with Linzi's quest. Like main quests once a companion quest comes up I go do it. Again because I found it less annoying/stressful to do them so I wasn't worried.

- There is an invite to visit a tournament event much later in the game. Do not wait too long on that, made that mistake twice.

May sound like a lot but really you have ample time. My friend did the opposite of me - saving things till the warnings told him to pay attention. But I didn't like always looking at the time I had left and wondering.

in the end I changed my opinion on hating timers and mostly enjoyed them, for this game anyhow, and I think in large part because once they were done you weren't locked out of other stuff (except once you get near the end and have to wrap up loose ends before continuing.
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Last edited by wolfgrimdark; March 2nd, 2020 at 05:47.
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March 2nd, 2020, 06:09
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
I played him as a mix of support and front line. He held his own in battle. My tactic was to put him up front after some spells then back out to heal if needed. Some battles he could just melee fine and others he was more effective as support. I did play on normal difficulty though. I also spent a lot of time shifted but then I like werewolves, and I went life-giver sub-class which made his healing spells more effective while shifted.

Shifter sub-class would probably be better for all front line perhaps. I enjoyed mixing it up though, and I tend to enjoy healing.
Thanks for the tips. How does choosing a subclass in PoE 2 work if you import your character from PoE 1? Does it give you the option to switch at the start of the game?

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
EDIT: On the timers and quests and kingdom. As someone who hates time quests or events, as I dislike the feeling of pressure/stress, I worried a lot about that. My second play through, however, didn't really notice the timers.
What difficulty level did you have kingdom management on? Also, what happens if you don't defeat the bandits in Chapter 1 in the allotted time? Does the game just simply end and you're forced to revert to an earlier save?
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