Bioshock: my nickle's worth

Prime Junta

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OK, so I spent most of last night up playing Bioshock. I'm almost finished; have one loose end to sort out and that's it.

First off, yeah, it's true: it is a great, possibly groundbreaking game in the same sense that Half-Life or Deus Ex were great, groundbreaking games. I won't elaborate on the good stuff you've already read about elsewhere.

Second, no, it doesn't make every other game look like crap. In fact, there's another FPS out this year that I liked even more: S.T.A.L.K.E.R. It had the same, strong, consistent artistic vision, an unusual story with strikingly similar twists, very similar game mechanics (armor and artifacts instead of tonics, more guns and ammo instead of plasmids, limited inventory space and artifact slots to force you to make choices).

However, it also had a wider variety of environments, which greatly increased the impact of the dark, claustrophobic places, more deliberate gameplay and a more "living" world, more character interaction, side quests, and even small branches to the plot. What it doesn't have is the insane polish and richness of Bioshock -- it's clear that the budget was smaller and the team less experienced.

Finally, a laundry list of Things That Struck Me (other than Molotov cocktails, gigantic power drills, wrenches, and lead pipes):

* The voice acting. Easily the best I've heard in any game. The actors sound like they *mean* what they're saying, the accents and intonation are pitch-perfect, like straight out of an Orson Welles movie.

* The writing. It obviously helps that the lines they're reading aren't rubbish, at all.

* The respawning. Didn't like it; feels too much like lazy design. I would have preferred slower, more deliberate combat that doesn't smear your ass all over the wall as much but with no respawning. Would've given more time for sightseeing too.

* The telekinesis plasmid. It's overpowered -- you can kill just about anything short of a Big Daddy by hurling junk at it. (I brained a spider splicer with a rotten pumpkin, which just ain't right.) If they had increased its Eve cost a bit, it would've balanced out better.

* The character models and animation. Easily the weakest visual aspect of the game -- the sets look like Orson Welles, the voices sound like Orson Welles, the characters look like Wallace & Gromit on a very bad Saturday morning. The animation is ho-hum as well, and the ragdoll physics are surprisingly previous-gen. (I only mention this because it jars a bit against the absolutely gorgeous everything else.)

* Some set-piece battles that go for quantity over quality. There's this once place where you have to retrieve something from a hazardous area while beating a clock, and every time you go in, a whole bunch of splicers spawn in there with you and there's nothing you can do about it. Lazy design that goes against the great basic mechanic of the game (slowly taking control over your environment).

Again, I absolutely loved the game -- if any game is worth this kind of reception, Bioshock has got to be it. Clearly the bar has been raised -- it's no longer enough to just kill things in inventive ways; we need the kind of interactivity with the environment that Bioshock does. Next step: fully destructible environments.

Oh, and... if you don't care for shooters, don't bother. As stated, this is a shooter first, last, and foremost. Also, if you've never played shooters but are tempted by Bioshock... well, be warned that it will be punishing. I've played a quite a lot of them, and the first hour or two of the game were... not easy.
 
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PJ, I've moved this to a more appropriate forum!!
 
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No prob; I thought of posting it here in the first place, but there was a lot of Bioshock discussion in the RPG forum so I put it there.
 
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I agree with most of what you said, and enjoyed reading your opinions!

Some readers of my Dark Messiah will find this somewhat ironic, but I avoided using the telekinesis plasmid much outside of 'rocket reflection' because of the fact that it was very powerful. I tended to mix up my tactics, but that was just for fun. Just like in any shooter there are unbalanced elements that can be exploited.
 
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I made the conscious choice of going with certain plasmids and weapons and leaving others alone so that I could enjoy a second play through (and perhaps a third and a fourth) with an entirely different approach to solving problems (although I'll be hard pressed to give up my invisibility tonic). I actually did the same in Dark Messiah so I didn't use magic as a fighter for instance in order to maximize replayability. Furthermore I knew about the kick spamming in advance so I really tried to avoid using it altogether.

As to your points I also agree with most of it, though I played as "DVD Jon" so I hacked everything I possibly could and while I could often HEAR my security cameras and turrets rip apart respawned baddies, they didn't bother me much. Of course the fact that I used the invisibility tonic also made them less of a nuisance to me.

However, I don't think I can agree with the animations being "ho-hum". I thought the spider splicers crawling on the ceiling looked great and the close combat splicers dragging their iron bars/wrenches or whatnot on the floor, creating sparks and a squeaky sound, looked great as well. Seeing a Bouncer Big Daddy charging you with all the helmet lights flashing bright red was also a pretty awe inspiring sight IMO.
 
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I wrote a mini review on my Gamespot account:

"There have been plenty of reviews of this game around the web and it's now joint top critics favoite according to Metacritic:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/scores/

That's quite an achievement. Bioshock is up there with HL2 and it certainly borrows from it. However, it adds some Jules Verne retro-future styling, some film sequences (The Shining ghost sequences), and a moral choice (farming the "Little Sisters") to the HL2 formula. This makes for a pretty interesting game by todays standards. Add to this Plasmids (genetic skills) and Tonics (passive skills), scavaging (for ammo, health packs, etc), vending machines, hacking, you start to get the picture of what Bioshock is. All this is given to you in such an easy to use and defined manner it's easy to overlook all the work put into this game.

The game itself is fairly linear though, so don't go in expecting Planescape dialogue trees. Infact you have no options to choose any dialogue in the game.

The games graphics range from good to outstanding (the UT3 engine is looking impressive here). The score, provided by Garry Schyman, is perfect for this game and setting (you're not going to see many games with a boss that plays like Cohen), as is the voice acting. This all makes this game one of the most immersive experiences for some time.

There are some criticisms. Too short being one - with all that's going on and all the Plasmids you start to accumulate it all seems to end before you can really put all these ability's to use. There is so much packed into the levels it's hard to moan full heartedly about its length though. Some sound issues; sound seems to stutter in Vista - some people report no sound at all. Shooting is a little clunky. No multi-player aspect. The respawn points make the game too easy. These do make the game more accesible for the none shooters among us - maybe there should have been an option to take these out? Or a reward for playing without them?

Regardless, the game is of an artistic level rarely seen in gaming and quite an experience."

I scored the game 8.5.
 
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I'll have to try and get stalker running on vista again.
 
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The game is definitely not short though.

Try going through it without using the Vita-chambers and only saving twice per level like I am.
 
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Please have in mind I'm old and sour so 8.5 from me is a great game imo, and I have played oh so many games.
 
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Also, if you've never played shooters but are tempted by Bioshock... well, be warned that it will be punishing. I've played a quite a lot of them, and the first hour or two of the game were... not easy.
You can't die in this game. Players need to impose self made metagame restrictions on themselves to get some challenge instead of clobbering everyone with wrench, respawn, rince and repeat.

Did anyone else anyone find the hacking mini game tedious after the first playthrough? I hacked everything I could see, turrets, cameras, vaults and so on. Half the time I spent playing Bioshock felt like I was playing some plumbering game.
 
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Did anyone else anyone find the hacking mini game tedious after the first playthrough? I hacked everything I could see, turrets, cameras, vaults and so on. Half the time I spent playing Bioshock felt like I was playing some plumbering game.

I dunno - it reminded me of Elite Force II in some ways, and was certainly better than Dungeon Lords matching tiles ... at least I could buy these off or use a hack-tool if I wanted.
 
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You can't die in this game. Players need to impose self made metagame restrictions on themselves to get some challenge instead of clobbering everyone with wrench, respawn, rince and repeat.

Unfortunate but true. It seems many people (myself included) played this one the usual FPS way -- save-game abuse. :)

Did anyone else anyone find the hacking mini game tedious after the first playthrough? I hacked everything I could see, turrets, cameras, vaults and so on. Half the time I spent playing Bioshock felt like I was playing some plumbering game.

Well, I've only played through once, so I can't say how tedious it'll feel the next time around, but it was OK for a minigame IMO.
 
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I'm not a great fan of that Pipe Dreams mini game. The fact that you can be in a fight then just start playing it really breaks reality for me.
 
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I'm not a great fan of that Pipe Dreams mini game. The fact that you can be in a fight then just start playing it really breaks reality for me.
I agree, also if you didn't have to do it so often, it would not feel so repetitive. Well, at least some of the cameras are out of reach. But a bigger problem is that you have to do it to every single vending machine, just because you can and just because you gain advantage doing it (with a certain genetic mod you get also health & Eve).
 
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I'm not a great fan of that Pipe Dreams mini game. The fact that you can be in a fight then just start playing it really breaks reality for me.
And the fact that you're walking around in an underwater city with huge glass windows despite the immense pressure, fighting mutated beings with magic isn't breaking "reality" for you?:sarcasticclap:

Nah, I'm just kidding. I know perfectly well what you meant ... however, I can't help but feel a little twitch coming along whenever I see someone using the word "realism" or "realistic" in conversations about computer games.
 
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Well maybe reality was not the best word to describe what I ment but you still understood me. Immersion maybe but buzz words are not to my liking either. If I say immersion I mean it in terms of engrossing.

I think if it wasn't used so much it would be fine. Besides I think I had pipe dreams on my Amiga (?? I think or C64 can't remember which) years back and I've already played the game to death. It's quite nice as a homage but it's over used.

That animation of the Thug Slicer dragging the pipe behind as you chase after them was a nice touch. There are a lot of nice scripted events all the way through that really bring Rapture to life.
 
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however, I can't help but feel a little twitch coming along whenever I see someone using the word "realism" or "realistic" in conversations about computer games.

There is realism and then there is realism within a context.

The sooner you appreciate the distinction, the sooner you will understand why it's not an unreasonable thing to complain about lack of realism or plausibility in a computer game.

It's the same reason it's ok for Gandalf to crack a bridge with his staff, but not ok for him to pull out a rocket launcher from his hat and blow up the Balrog with a "hasta la vista baby" thrown in. It's not because it's not realistic, it's because it doesn't fit within the context of the setting Tolkien created.

Bioshock creates an atmosphere which is meant to produce immense tension, and give the player the illusion of actually being in an underwater city. It doesn't help to ask the player to accept that he constantly has to stop time and play Pipe Dreams. That mini-game is working strongly against the core intention of the experience, and is but one example in a sea of compromises made to suit a perceived audience, instead of staying true to a consistent vision.
 
Oh come now, I was merely pulling woges' leg, but okay, let's pretend I was being serious.

While I agree with the example of Gandalf, we quickly arrive at the first fork in the road: Who draws the line as to what is appropriate and what is not?
If the rocket launcher was put into the Lord of the Rings universe IT would clearly be the object out of context but if we put Gandalf into Team Fortress 2 HE would be the one out of context. If the aim is to make a "realistic" shooter experience, such as America's Army, then you should go down when hit by a bullet, no matter where it hits. However, if your aim is to make a FUN shooter, then perhaps real life approximations in terms of survival rates in the midst of the action, isn't necessarily the best way to go.

Sometimes you sacrifice one thing in order to emphasize another. This same issue has been brought up concerning the main plot in Oblivion and how it broke the immersion that you could complete each section in your own time. However, it was clearly a deliberate act on the developers' part, so that the player could choose how, when and where to go instead of being herded through the main story and only after that was completed, would he/she be given free reigns to do as they pleased.

Sometimes it is also up to the player him/herself to help maintain the immersion level. If you feel it breaks the context that you can hack equipment in the middle of a battle, then don't. Wait until the coast is clear before you initiate the hacking procedure. If the hacking procedure feels tedious, then either don't hack what doesn't necessarily need to be hacked (very few hacking situations are actually required in Bioshock), use the buy out option or focus on assembling hacking tools. If the Telekinesis plasmid is too powerful, then don't use it as much. If you feel the Vita Chambers remove all death penalties, then impose your own penalties (as JDR13 already suggested).

Besides, Bioshock IS the spiritual successor of System Shock and both of the original System Shock games had hacking mini-games in them, so of course Bioshock should too.
 
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House rules are not playing the game that you've been given though. That's their design so you can only really judge a game by the makers rules.
 
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Oh come now, I was merely pulling woges' leg, but okay, let's pretend I was being serious.

I'm not saying you weren't pulling a leg, but obviously you had something to say or you wouldn't have spoken out like you did.

While I agree with the example of Gandalf, we quickly arrive at the first fork in the road: Who draws the line as to what is appropriate and what is not?

Anyone having the experience.

But it's not about objectively defining what's appropriate or not, it's about the individual opinion.

Sometimes it is also up to the player him/herself to help maintain the immersion level. If you feel it breaks the context that you can hack equipment in the middle of a battle, then don't. Wait until the coast is clear before you initiate the hacking procedure. If the hacking procedure feels tedious, then either don't hack what doesn't necessarily need to be hacked (very few hacking situations are actually required in Bioshock), use the buy out option or focus on assembling hacking tools. If the Telekinesis plasmid is too powerful, then don't use it as much. If you feel the Vita Chambers remove all death penalties, then impose your own penalties (as JDR13 already suggested).

Some people don't mind meta-gaming to compensate for a game's weaknesses. Others don't even consider those things weaknesses, so they wouldn't have to compensate in the first place. Then there are those of us who consider things like Vita chambers and games of time-stopping Pipe Dreams very disturbing to the overall experience AND who mind meta-gaming to get around it.

Hacking is quite obviously a major component of Bioshock, and to simply not do it would be gimping yourself severely, to whatever extent you can be gimped in a game with no death penalty. Hacking tools are not available until later in the game, and you don't necessarily have enough of them to hack everything you see.

No one is right or wrong about this, it's simply about the individual having the experience. My original point was about accepting that opinions differ, and there are people who find lack of realism within a context disruptive and therefore have valid reason to point out the flaws when they get too obvious to ignore.

Besides, Bioshock IS the spiritual successor of System Shock and both of the original System Shock games had hacking mini-games in them, so of course Bioshock should too.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a mini-game, I'm saying that the mini-game was disruptive to the experience.

In System Shock, you basically connected circuits of current to activate various controls. That made a lot of sense within the context of the game, and the process was fast and non-disruptive to boot.

In System Shock 2, there was an abstraction of some sort, which seemed (to me anyway) very fitting within the context of the game. What's more, it was an extremely fast and non-disruptive process.

In Bioshock, you have a copy of an established and completely unrelated mini-game, which apart from the element of water, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How in the world do I hack something by making water flow from one end to another? What's worse, the process is very slow compared to the System Shocks, and I doubt even the greatest fan has been completely pleased with this aspect throughout the game.
 
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