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Default Pillars of Eternity II - New DLC Released & Patch 3.0

September 26th, 2018, 13:45
Originally Posted by ikbenrichard View Post
I am wondering how much more i need to wait for an all in experience?

Any one a clue how many DLCs will follow?
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Sometime in 2019 according to the games roadmap.
I've completed the vanilla game once. Didn't uninstall because, well, there'll be several DLC.
Already have 3 games installed on SDD I haven't completed yet (Y0, DQ11, VC4) and one I didn't start yet (Kingmaker). Two more still installed games I did complete the release version but they also wait for more DLC (KCD, NNK2).

I mean for god's sakes. I've refused buying TR3 a few days ago because the vanilla game playthrough is cca 20 hours and it'll get 7 (seven!, OMG) DLC over time.

Had enough of that DLC:The Game bullshit that artificially forces me to keep something installed for years. What happened to the good old replayability that made you keep a (full!) game because it was that good although stupid DLC didn't exist back then?
Next game that goes this DLC pieces of shit route I won't buy till it's released in full state. Even if it's voted goty on every single gaming site out there.

Note: AC:Odyssey is an exception. Yea, excuses excuses, but… Preordered it already so there. This of course doesn't mean I'll play it since day1. Not sure.
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September 26th, 2018, 13:54
@Ripper How "significant" are you talking? I thought White March was plenty significant for PoE 1, for example. After a certain point, it makes no sense for a developer to invest further resources into an expansion if it takes them a year to release that expansion to a market that has moved on and won't buy the product.

These aren't the 90's when it comes to expansions, and people shouldn't expect them to be. It's a completely different market, flooded and more flippant in nature.

As for waiting to play the game but still buying it on launch, I'm in the same camp for better or worse. I accept that Obsidian games are always going to be a dynamic affair… but the studio continues to offer up some of the most traditional and meaty RPGs, and so I'll continue supporting them until they get bought out or go bust.
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September 26th, 2018, 14:10
When I say significant, I mean in the sense of being substantial, and the White March DLCs would certainly qualify, IMO. Where they are a bit of problem, is in not really being post-game expansions; many people consider the main game is much richer when that content is included, which again incentivises waiting. If it were an additional adventure, that continues after the main game, that would be no reason to wait, in my scheme of things.

But this isn't all black and white, of course. I think there is a bit of a dilemma because, on the one hand you have the super-keen backer community asking for changes and additions, and very pleased to see that happening, but then you have those who are interested, but potentially put off by the constant flux. If I were involved in the business side at one of these studios, I'd ask whether we're too focused on catering to the first group (which is important but relatively small), at the expense of appealing to the latter group. It's a difficult question, I think.
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September 26th, 2018, 14:21
I agree that it's a difficult question from a sales perspective, but the good thing about the former approach is that everyone benefits from improvements to the main game.

The questions then becomes…

1. Is it okay for developers to continue expanding their games after release? I believe yes, as long as the original version was a fair value.

2. Should consumers wait to purchase from developers that continue expanding their games? I believe no, unless they're not a supporter of the developer.
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September 26th, 2018, 15:01
I strongly disagree with you - I'm not buying a game to support the developer; i'm buying a game for entertainment value. If the developer choice is one I don't find entertaining then I shall not buy their product.

Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
2. Should consumers wait to purchase from developers that continue expanding their games? I believe no, unless they're not a supporter of the developer.
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September 26th, 2018, 15:12
The two are not mutually exclusive. Supporting developers that you like leads to longer term entertainment value than if they went out of business due to a lack of support.

If the developer choice is one I don't find entertaining then I shall not buy their product.
So you don't find free content and new features after release entertaining?
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September 26th, 2018, 15:18
Certainly my buying choices, in general, are influenced by the desire to support those businesses I want to see survive, and avoid those companies I do not respect. I like to buy goods from my local shops and markets instead of having them delivered by supermarket chains, I buy my books from the local bookshop instead of Amazon, and so on. In some ways that is not optimal for me, but I don't want to see those things go away.
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September 26th, 2018, 15:23
Nearly every problem with capitalism can be reduced to the notion that people care more about short term gain than long term consequences. Both businesses and consumers.
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September 26th, 2018, 17:16
I don't find story dlc after the fact entertaining.

Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
The two are not mutually exclusive. Supporting developers that you like leads to longer term entertainment value than if they went out of business due to a lack of support.



So you don't find free content and new features after release entertaining?
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September 26th, 2018, 23:19
I'm glad they're expanding on the Ranger abilities; that class has received criticism for being underwhelming. Now if they would just work on the Priest class…
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September 27th, 2018, 02:44
I'm so happy I don't care about DLCs. I play the game as it comes out, with a patch or two so the biggest issues are resolved, and when I finish it it's uninstalled, ready for the next game in the queue.
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September 27th, 2018, 05:56
Originally Posted by Rahdulan View Post
What I've found is that just means it's better to wait for GOTY version. You get the additional paid content for generally less AND game is content-complete at that point.
I never wait for GOTY. I am at point in life where I have plenty of disposable income and I probably spend hundreds per year and maybe over $1K on games. I bought Star Control last week, Kingmaker yesterday and will buy the $100 AC: Odyssey before Oct 2 early access. Oh and I bought the highest tier of PoE2 as well. I prefer to "live for the day" when it comes to my gaming. I can see why others may budget their purchases though. I always use GMG or Fanatical sales if a Steam copy is available there. If not I will buy on Steam at full price, even if a Uplay copy is cheaper elsewhere.

I do wait and buy GOTY editions of games like Elex, Two Worlds 2, Risen/Gothic like games, etc. which I tend to skip at release because I prefer the AAA titles.
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September 27th, 2018, 12:22
Originally Posted by jpnole View Post
I can see why others may budget their purchases though.
It's not about budget but about showing middlefinger to publishing trends where games are released either in buggy state or without full content so you cannot play everything immediately on release.
If I'm not clear enough, ME2 and ME3 DLC is obtainable only with so called Bioware points - those were never on sale thus "budgeting" can't help you there, it's disrespecting fans, it's greed and it's milking.
I'm one of those who supported these things in plenty of cases, but what's enough is enough. In the future, gimme a complete game or go home.
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September 28th, 2018, 08:42
I'll buy every DLC for this game to support Obsidian, but like many others I prefer it if expansions are Post main game content. BG2 and Nwn2 both have excellent expansions that takes place after you finish the main quest of the original game.

Adding options and of course fixing bugs is one thing, but I don't like playing a game where I'm missing out on content to come. Also, an expansion should raise the level cap (and provide a challenge accordingly). Experiencing new stories and finding new gear is fine and all, but if there's a cap on levelling that takes away some of the enjoyment for me.

Do the PoE2 expansions raise the cap? I feel like I've just started and I'm somewhere around level 12, if 20 is still the cap I suspect I'll hit it long before tackling the DLC content…
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September 28th, 2018, 20:49
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I find it extraordinary that games now have "patch roadmaps".
Remember that poll ? People DID want DLCs !

Now, that's also a change in game-development culture : People do want DLCs … - so developers do have to do roadmaps …
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September 29th, 2018, 00:39
Well those people can buy it. I don't want dlc - expansion is great but these dlc - lets just wait till the game is finished.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Remember that poll ? People DID want DLCs !

Now, that's also a change in game-development culture : People do want DLCs - so developers do have to do roadmaps
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September 29th, 2018, 01:14
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Remember that poll ? People DID want DLCs !

Now, that's also a change in game-development culture : People do want DLCs … - so developers do have to do roadmaps …
I don't mind a roadmap for DLC, necessarily. It's more the idea of patch roadmap I find a bit silly. It's rather like you take a boat out to sea, and you notice that there is a leak in the hull, so you patch it. But, if I went to sea in someones's boat, and they said before we left, "OK, after a while we'll apply the first patch, then later the second, third, and then the fourth." I'd be wondering - what do you know about this boat that I don't?!

So, to my mind it's kind of misusing the idea of a patch. To me, it would be more accurate to call it a continuing development roadmap, with the milestones along the way. I would actually prefer it if they put a game in Early Access while they're doing that, and only do the final release when no further major changes are planned.
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Last edited by Ripper; September 29th, 2018 at 01:43.
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September 29th, 2018, 12:02
Well, no matter how developers do it, it's wrong.
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