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Default BioWare - The Steady Decline of BioWare

March 2nd, 2019, 14:04
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
I'm not sure which ones you're thinking of, but when I think of Lords of Xulima, Expedition:Conquistidors, or Legends of Eisenwald, these are three games that in my opinion contradict your statement. The developers stuck a lot of time and money into them before they were crowdfunded. I also can't see with their features how they could possibly have developed them with profit as their main motive.
Probably of all the ones that fit the bill.
Products are designed following data collected on trends etc… Just UgoIgo is a sign as it is not the mandatory platform for any kind of gameplay.

A lot of big players in the vid industry stick a lot of time and money in their products before they are sold. It does not tell they do not tailor their product out on data collected on players.
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March 2nd, 2019, 15:32
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
It was said before that Bioware is just a label now. Accurate enough. But in their and EA's defense if everyone followed Codexian hopes and dreams for RPG's we'd be back in the late 90's with small market games and sales volumes. Then we wouldn't have games funded like Witcher 3 at all. Its worth tolerating some of these "please the masses" games so we can have the occasional outstanding AAA RPG title.
I'll agree with this insofar as we still get the occasional AAA, Witcher3-like gem of a game. All it really means is that there's more chaff to discard.

For my money, though, Bioware's always been ham-fisted when it came to their storytelling. If you weren't THE SUPER GOOD HERO you were the absolutely vile renegade. It's one of the things that made their stories stand out. And I found that to be a good thing. Where that approach went off into the abyss was when they felt the need to bludgeon me over the head with their sexual politics. Idiocy, so far as I'm concerned.

But despite never really getting on board with the mechanics, I loved the Mass Effect series. ME2 in particular is right up there with the best games I've ever played.

Between their in-house politics and their inability to make a game without preaching them, and EA's overarching influence, though, Bioware's lost me completely. I got back on board with Bioware with Dragon Age Origins, because despite its abundantly obvious shortcomings, that was one helluvan addictive game, I found. I played that thing to death. But the expansion, Awakening, only exacerbated all of the glaring flaws I'd noticed in Origins without even attempting to correct anything, so I felt the writing was on the wall at that point. I gave DA2 a shot, but again… Bioware was heading in the absolute wrong direction, so that was it for me.

Am disheartened by the fact that they're just shilling for this cause or that brand, now, and I am sorry to see what they're doing and how it's likely to end, because for a long time they were my absolute, 100%, buy-it-because-it-had-Biwoare-on-the-box developer, but it's not like I didn't see this coming. EA's ruined too many good developers for me to have ever believed this would turn out for the best. Same with Microsoft and InXile/Obsidian, frankly. Maybe the situations are different, but I doubt it. I think we'll see one, maybe two good offerings out of those studios and then things will… change.

*shrugs* Is the way the industry seems to work, but I'm not glad to see the state Bioware's in right now. I'm certainly not glad that they've decided to make games that I wouldn't prod with a 10' pole. Thankfully, the diversity in gaming has never been greater, so there's no worry on my part that "my games" won't be made by somebody, any more. Besides, my backlog is already quite large, and I have little problem replaying old favourites.
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March 2nd, 2019, 15:39
All the creative talent will reform elsewhere if it hasn’t already. Obsidian and PoE (and Owlcat for that matter) proved to everyone that there is a real market for true RPGs. They will get made by the right people!
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March 2nd, 2019, 20:16
Originally Posted by Telstar View Post
Such bashing is unfounded.
DA Inquisition shallow? No fking way. It was the best of the franchise and one of the best first person CRPG of all times.
Ending of KOTOR1? meh, this guy doesn't understand a thing.

Putting back the adblock on that site.
I can't tell if that's supposed to be sarcasm or if you're just trolling the author. Last time I checked, DA Inquisition wasn't in first-person.
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March 3rd, 2019, 17:03
Originally Posted by Mithter Thibbs View Post
Thankfully, the diversity in gaming has never been greater, so there's no worry on my part that "my games" won't be made by somebody, any more.
Unlikely. There is quite a volume of generic products, as never before. Does not mean diversity is.

As to the products being made, as it was understood, it is not such worrying about them being made but that others are made with even or greater resources.
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March 3rd, 2019, 18:39
Well, for me, Bioware was best with BG, NWN, DA, KotOR, ME and ME:A. I liked Dragon Age Inquisition quite a lot - but it had some issues preventing it from being on the same level as their best games. But all of those games are among my favorites - and I think it's a little laughable to hear people mention BG2 as some kind of holy grail in that way.

But then I remember it's the Watch we're on

Most of the mainstream whiners seem to think of ME2 as the peak of Bioware, which is really no less of a joke to me.

It seems no one can really agree what their peak was.

Even so, they very clearly changed direction after Baldur's Gate 2 - and they moved heavily into the social/multiplayer realm with Neverwinter Nights. I remember a lot of whiny bitches going on about how terrible that move was - and how it wasn't a proper Bioware game.

So, to me, hearing about this as if it was something new is comical, you know? I mean, Bioware was only Bioware for a very brief period of time - and the most significant changes happened during their time with Atari - and not EA.

Anthem is the best game they've made in terms of the core gameplay - but probably the worst game they've made in terms of the overall mainstream experience. In some ways, it feels more like a demo of a game than a finished one, which I concede deserves a lot of criticism.

But it's not a surprise that a lot of people who, despite their claims of openness, clearly expected something like a traditional Bioware game decided to be particularly harsh on a game they clearly didn't want in any iteration.

In fact, even if Anthem had been the perfect looter shooter with endless content - the reception would have been 70-75 at best. It's a tough genre to do well in - and it's certainly not easier when you're known for a completely different sort of game and you have EA doing the financing.

The decline, though? Nah, not at all.

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March 4th, 2019, 02:04
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I can't tell if that's supposed to be sarcasm or if you're just trolling the author. Last time I checked, DA Inquisition wasn't in first-person.
I was trolling the author because he said a lot of nonsense. DAI is third person (actually I didn't remember that well) but it's 3D, it belongs to the same category as Elder scrolls and Witcher.

My point is that Bioware can still make great RPGs and the next DA chapter announced looks promising to me. I think that site bashing is due to their latest title, which isn't a RPG so I don't care about it.
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March 4th, 2019, 13:17
Originally Posted by Telstar View Post
My point is that Bioware can still make great RPGs and the next DA chapter announced looks promising to me. I think that site bashing is due to their latest title, which isn't a RPG so I don't care about it.
What looks promising about the next DA? They haven't shown anything yet. Literally nothing.

Even though I wouldn't call DA:I a great RPG by any means, it was still a fun game to play, and it'd be good if they could make another game at least as good as it was. But given the trajectory of the company, it seems unlikely that they will. (Or that they'll even still exist by the time a DA4 would be released?)
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March 4th, 2019, 13:50
PCGamer also posted a passive aggressive opinion article about BioWare this week.

Link -https://www.pcgamer.com/old-bioware-…istant-memory/

Half the article criticizes BioWare and the other half makes apologizes for them.
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March 4th, 2019, 14:17
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Unlikely. There is quite a volume of generic products, as never before. Does not mean diversity is.

As to the products being made, as it was understood, it is not such worrying about them being made but that others are made with even or greater resources.
… and when I say "diversity" I'm including the hordes of generic reskinned/re-rostered AAA games as well as the innumerable indies out there. I can go on GoG right now and have access to a wider variety of games and gaming styles than at any previous point in my entire computer gaming history (started in the middle 80's, for frame of reference), far more games than I can possibly hope to finish in my lifetime. So, "unlikely" doesn't factor in at all. There's no "unlikely" in this. Just fact.

Personally, though, I'm not too much concerned with the pissing contest that is "greater resources". That's a futile and self-defeating mindset to adopt, because there'll always be someone with a greater budget or better resources at their disposal, and you'll always end up being dissatisfied with whatever you end up buying because of that other thing that's so much better. But if those people aren't making the kinds of games I want to play to begin with, then literally, what good are they? From my perspective: None. I don't want them to fail -- their failure isn't going to free them up to make the games that I DO want to play -- but I don't much care if they succeed, either. That's the point I'm at with Bioware right now: They've lost me as a customer, but I don't want them to fail. If the market determines that there's a place for what they produce, cool. If not… cool.

But again: There are more people making games than just those that deal with bleeding edge technology and massive development teams that require multimillion unit sales just to break even.
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March 4th, 2019, 14:20
Originally Posted by Telstar View Post
I was trolling the author because he said a lot of nonsense. DAI is third person (actually I didn't remember that well) but it's 3D, it belongs to the same category as Elder scrolls and Witcher.
But it doesn't.
It's not a buggy mess with useless clutter all over the huge map as Elder Scrolls. Clutter it does have, but it's not useless - assuming you'll grind it in both games.
It's consolecompatible graphics is years away from Witcher's hairworks. Not only that it lacks of global c&c (note that it actually does have one main quest which is c&c brilliance) and contains irritating instarespawn of trashmobs impossible to stop via mods.
Finally, it's m+k is horrible compared to all TES and TW games, I lost nerves in the puzzle where you have to use tactical mode more than in pisspoor ports of jrpgs.

I'm not saying DAI is a bad game, just that it doesn't belong in the same basket with other two mentioned series by any means.
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
PCGamer also posted a passive aggressive opinion article about BioWare this week.

Link -https://www.pcgamer.com/old-bioware-…istant-memory/

Half the article criticizes BioWare and the other half makes apologizes for them.
In my case, old PCG became a distant memory. Once a site I respected turned into advertising hell with shilling articles, covering mostly mmos and games that aren't even available on PC.
Of course they'll make apologizes for "new" Bioware, practically they share the same story.
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March 4th, 2019, 21:02
In regards to the statement of Bioware's decline, a lot of people are calling for the axe. People seem to be sure that Anthem has actually done them in, and that EA is planning to nail the coffin soon.

I'm not so sure, though. I get the feeling that Bioware isn't going anywhere, at least not yet. I think Anthem may have a potentially shaky future with upcoming content and updates, but I believe EA's going to keep them around a bit longer, at least until the next Dragon Age. But who knows?

Personally, I hate seeing studios go under, and it'd be especially tragic for that to happen to Bioware.
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March 4th, 2019, 21:03
The thing isn't that Bioware could be in danger, because they certainly could. It's that people actually want them to be in danger that calls for a healthy measure of scepticism.

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March 5th, 2019, 13:51
Originally Posted by Mithter Thibbs View Post
I can go on GoG right now and have access to a wider variety of games and gaming styles than at any previous point in my entire computer gaming history (started in the middle 80's, for frame of reference), far more games than I can possibly hope to finish in my lifetime. So, "unlikely" doesn't factor in at all. There's no "unlikely" in this. Just fact.
Having access is a bottleneck. Players might have access to more products without it making the scene more diverse.

Past diversity does not depend on present and future production. It stays as long as it is conserved.
Production could stop right now the past diversity remains at the same level as it was as long as it is conserved.

Generic present and future productions added to past diversity have one effect: diluting the diversity from the past.

Current and future productions must be as diverse as it was to claim that diversity stuff.

Not the case.
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August 18th, 2019, 01:47
https://www.pcgamer.com/lead-produce…eaves-bioware/
Fernando Melo, lead producer on BioWare's upcoming Dragon Age game, has left the studio, following Anthem lead producer Ben Irving out of the exit door.

Melo worked as a senior producer on Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 before becoming director of online development in 2011. In 2015, he left the role to work on the online portion of Mass Effect: Andromeda, and was later made lead producer on the next Dragon Age game, codenamed Morrison.
So two online whatnot producers are now gone from Bioware.
I'm trying to be optimistic here and speculate Bioware still isn't dead but is ditching the "online" rubbish. Have to hope.
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August 18th, 2019, 15:01
Well, SWTOR has planned a bigger Update for September, and that's still a Bioware game …

… But sometimes I have the unpleasant feeling as if that's the only "real" game left of Bioware …
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August 18th, 2019, 15:31
Bioware has been dead to me for years now, and I suspect I'm no longer the minority. What they make, at least what I've seen, simply isn't enjoyable or fun anymore, and the public will only take so much of that.
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August 18th, 2019, 18:49
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
I'm trying to be optimistic here and speculate Bioware still isn't dead but is ditching the "online" rubbish. Have to hope.
That would be jackpot.
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August 18th, 2019, 22:02
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
… But sometimes I have the unpleasant feeling as if that's the only "real" game left of Bioware …
A product I cannot install on a laptop then play while visiting North Korea… Sorry, can't call it a real game.
Internet is basically not allowed in North Korea.

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Last edited by joxer; August 18th, 2019 at 22:33.
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