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July 19th, 2021, 00:05
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
This is only a small small taste of what is to come. I feel so sorry for all the people affected!

I can just hope that this serves as a big warning, so that people finally realize that climate change are real and can affect them as well. Sadly most people will not care about what has already been happening in for example Indonesia for many years already.

But if it is in your own country, it feels much more closer and real I would assume. Still I think most people in the affected countries will say, "Climate change are horrible, someone should do something", then they'll proceed to drive their car, eat beef and take a vacation flight to Thailand.
That's me … (without the flight to Thailand)
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July 19th, 2021, 00:05
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
I hope people realize my last sentence in my post was sarcasm and why I used the emote

My own feeling is we need to tackle it from all angles. Climate change is something the majority needs to fight - from small personal acts to voting in the right people to grass roots etc.

A lot of this is about convenience as well. My Dean got their PHD in Natural Resources and Environmental Conservation and I pointed out to him he was going through 2-3 coffee pods a day €
Yes, I got what you were doing in that last part, and I'm agreeing with that sentiment - sitting back and saying "someone should do something and it shouldn't be like this" is bugger all use.

I'm not saying that our individual changes are useless, but I do believe that they will be futile if we don't push our leaders into action. Essentially, what I think needs to be done is to subsidise the gap between today and the point at which renewables and electrification become economically competitive. If we don't do that, I reckon we could put the question to economists: "If people struggling financially are given a choice between more financial hardship now, against the risk of bad consequences at some point in the future, what will they do?" I suspect we'll get a pretty unanimous answer.
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Last edited by Ripper; July 19th, 2021 at 00:57.
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July 19th, 2021, 11:28
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
But if it is in your own country, it feels much more closer and real I would assume. Still I think most people in the affected countries will say, "Climate change are horrible, someone should do something", then they'll proceed to drive their car, eat beef and take a vacation flight to Thailand.
Unless it actually hits you like it does now in Germany, Belgium and to a lesser degree in The Netherlands.
Most of the water that devastated the west of Germany has to go through The Netherlands to reach the sea. We have been hit by floods in 1993 and 1995 along the rivers and a plan was made that still isn't completed and is costing loads of money. The plans were to give the river space. Move dikes further inland, make them higher and allow for flooding of land to give the rivers space. It isn't finished yet, but it all just barely held. The water has never been so high but whatever was done, worked for the large part. So, it was money well spent.
I feel sorry for all the people in Germany and Belgium who had to go through this and the loss of all the lives. I hope it is also a wake-up call that the proper thing to do after this is to invest in giving the rivers space. This requires difficult choices and a lot of money, but it can be done. And, it never ends. It requires a continuous investment as it will only get worse.
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July 19th, 2021, 11:36
The Dutch are the best water-engineers I know. I think Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands should cooperate in creating natural flood-plains and dykes.

(Maybe they cooperate already - I'm not an expert in this topic)
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July 19th, 2021, 13:53
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
Most of the water that devastated the west of Germany has to go through The Netherlands to reach the sea.
Yes, that's what we thought after the flood hit us, I hope there wasn't too much flood going back through your country by L'Escaut, la Meuse, Waal and so on. After gaining so much land over the sea, there must be vast areas at risk.

@HiddenX I don't know if there's any cooperation between our 3 countries, if there is something I've never heard of it.
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July 19th, 2021, 14:35
Before and after the event :https://reportage.wdr.de/hochwasser-…os#chapter-140

More fotos : https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/nrw-…aeden-100.html

Several people are reported to steal metal scrap and valuable things from houses of people affected by the flood and from helpers as well.
Some are illegal scrap collectors "often coming in white vans" with no markings, of course.


And I won't comment on the politics part of that or otherwise I'll get another forum warning.

I do see problems but I insist on them being discussed in the politics sub-forum.
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July 19th, 2021, 21:12
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Yes, I got what you were doing in that last part, and I'm agreeing with that sentiment - sitting back and saying "someone should do something and it shouldn't be like this" is bugger all use.

I'm not saying that our individual changes are useless, but I do believe that they will be futile if we don't push our leaders into action. Essentially, what I think needs to be done is to subsidise the gap between today and the point at which renewables and electrification become economically competitive. If we don't do that, I reckon we could put the question to economists: "If people struggling financially are given a choice between more financial hardship now, against the risk of bad consequences at some point in the future, what will they do?" I suspect we'll get a pretty unanimous answer.
I for sure don't disagree with that, we need to approach this through all angles, it is not enough to change our daily lives, we must also support the right government and that government most co-operate with other governments, but in all democratic countries, the first step must be to get people to understand the problem and to vote for candidates who are ready to do what it takes, in most countries at most 5% of the people are supporting such a candidates.

Yes, the European union has prepared the biggest environmental package in history, but first of all it is not nearly enough, second of all it won't start taking effect until maybe at the end of 2022, third of all it is full of loopholes. It is a start but not nearly enough.

Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
Unless it actually hits you like it does now in Germany, Belgium and to a lesser degree in The Netherlands.
Most of the water that devastated the west of Germany has to go through The Netherlands to reach the sea. We have been hit by floods in 1993 and 1995 along the rivers and a plan was made that still isn't completed and is costing loads of money. The plans were to give the river space. Move dikes further inland, make them higher and allow for flooding of land to give the rivers space. It isn't finished yet, but it all just barely held. The water has never been so high but whatever was done, worked for the large part. So, it was money well spent.
I feel sorry for all the people in Germany and Belgium who had to go through this and the loss of all the lives. I hope it is also a wake-up call that the proper thing to do after this is to invest in giving the rivers space. This requires difficult choices and a lot of money, but it can be done. And, it never ends. It requires a continuous investment as it will only get worse.
Yes, that is a second part, we also need to prepare for the disasters which will hit us, in Sweden we've started building walls already now to prepare for raised sea levels, this can lessen the impact at least in the short-term, but it won't be a solution, sooner or later it'll be too extreme for the protections to hold.
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