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August 10th, 2021, 20:17
NoClip looks back at Thief: The Dark Project:

Thief: The Dark Project - Noclip Greatest Hits

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In our latest episode of Greatest Hits Danny peaks through the Looking Glass to remember the original Thief series and the long shadow it has cast on the world of game design.

  • 0:00 - Intro
  • 2:37 - The Early Concepts
  • 13:05 - Designing Thief: The Dark Project
  • 29:28 - Tools of the Trade
  • 35:40 - Thief 2: The Metal Age
  • 40:04 - The Culture at Looking Glass
  • 49:37 - Thief: Deadly Shadows
  • 1:02:22 - Outro
  • 1:03:33 - Credits
Thanks Redglyph!

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August 11th, 2021, 10:43
Now I know why the maps were so small in Deadly Shadows Damn limited consoles…

I'm not sure which I preferred, I think the 2nd one, despite its obsession with loot. The first one was a great discovery of this genre, but I didn't like the strange plant thing. And the third was a nice technical achievement, but those loading screens were annoying.

I've enjoyed them all, this new feeling of accessing forbidden places, listening for the guards' mumbling to detect if someone was in the next room, taking the prize and getting out was so exciting! The 3rd game surprised me when I realized a guard was carrying a torch! No more safe hiding into the shadows
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August 11th, 2021, 17:08
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Now I know why the maps were so small in Deadly Shadows Damn limited consoles…
I know, when console manufacturers were very stingy with RAM Messed up Invisible War too
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August 11th, 2021, 17:08
Never played Deadly shadows, but the first two games were incredible for their time.

I liked Thief Gold a little more than the second game. It had more variety with the fantasy elements and monsters. Thief 2 probably had slightly better level design.
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August 11th, 2021, 17:13
I'm not a big fan of the undead in Thief, so I prefer the Metal Age. But mostly I prefer it because that's the game the vast majority of the FMs are for.
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August 11th, 2021, 17:37
Thief games are excellent, even now, to this very day. Another series that I'm due to replay at some point soon!
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August 11th, 2021, 18:02
I see the community has been active on those games too!
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150989

In particular, the Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3 includes the Thief Deadly Shadows Gold mod, which removes all zones (except in the tutorial mission).

@Carnifex, if you replay any of the Thief games, you should definitely have a look at those mods if you haven't already
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August 11th, 2021, 18:30
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Never played Deadly shadows, but the first two games were incredible for their time.

I liked Thief Gold a little more than the second game. It had more variety with the fantasy elements and monsters. Thief 2 probably had slightly better level design.
You should definitely try the third one, for example there is a creepy asylum level in it, which alone is already worth it…
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August 11th, 2021, 18:40
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post

In particular, the Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3 includes the Thief Deadly Shadows Gold mod, which removes all zones (except in the tutorial mission).
This, for the actual levels - makes them much more enjoyable, I hated those loading screens also. But the city hubs are still separated by loading screens. Still great fun to play that game, just an adjustment from the first two in style and approach.

I replayed all three games this year. The Dark Project I quit back in the day because I was too scared of the Cathedral level. But I played through all of it this time as Thief Gold, with extra missions that were diverse and huge, almost no undead in those (but still plenty in some of the original missions), and more along the design philosophy of Metal Age, which I think is a much more tightly designed game. I rarely got lost but I did often in levels from the first game, like The Sword, and definitely Thieves Guild.

It was a trip and nostalgic to replay them all back to back. Get those mods if anyone wants to do the same, the Necro Age 2 graphics pack looks fantastic on a modern widescreen, there are updated sounds, etc. Steam has some good guides from users on updating all the games. The orig textures are way too ugly now.

And finally, after Metal Age, and before Deadly Shadows - T2X is a must play, a full fan mission campaign, as long as any of the official games, with cutscenes, solid voice acting, and some quality of life improvements. You play as a lady thief in a story that develops along the same timeline as Metal Age. Very diverse missions, including in the snow, a moving train, city goodness, and some very creepy undead levels (wasn't a fan of those).

My favorite thing about Deadly Shadows is the varied and unique enemies and how they fight with each other. Plus the Shadows really do look great.

And finally, Down in the Bonehoard from the first game is one of best designed levels in any game.
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August 11th, 2021, 19:09
Originally Posted by mbuddha View Post
I rarely got lost but I did often in levels from the first game, like The Sword
Is The Sword the one that takes place in that crazy mansion with the inverted rooms and such? That level was quite memorable.
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August 11th, 2021, 19:39
I'm always surprised that non-combat approaches to games have actually died out. No-one does that anymore.

I'm always surprised about how much combat has replaced non-combat.

If there had been people who have had any interest in non-combat game style, then there would have been more games like that. But instead, the ultra combat-heavy Action-RPG genre flooded everything, and made the word "role playing game" without the attached "combat" or "battle" unthinkable.

Now, the tem "role playing" = "battle/combat".

It has become literally unthinkable in video games that "playing a role" could consist of ANYTHING OTHER than fighting and killing.
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August 11th, 2021, 20:05
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Is The Sword the one that takes place in that crazy mansion with the inverted rooms and such? That level was quite memorable.
Yes, that's the one.
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August 11th, 2021, 20:08
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I'm always surprised that non-combat approaches to games have actually died out. No-one does that anymore.

I'm always surprised about how much combat has replaced non-combat.

If there had been people who have had any interest in non-combat game style, then there would have been more games like that. But instead, the ultra combat-heavy Action-RPG genre flooded everything, and made the word "role playing game" without the attached "combat" or "battle" unthinkable.

Now, the tem "role playing" = "battle/combat".

It has become literally unthinkable in video games that "playing a role" could consist of ANYTHING OTHER than fighting and killing.
I know this is your favorite drum to beat, but I got in around 5 fights total in 80 hours of playing Tides of Numenera and Disco Elysium. Games like Stardew Valley are popular. It's still possible to use non lethal stealth in several games, just like in these old Thief games.

Yes, fighting in games is very common. It was in 1998, too. But it's not "literally unthinkable" to do otherwise, and it takes about 10 seconds of honest reflection to know that.
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August 11th, 2021, 22:14
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
I know this is your favorite drum to beat, but I got in around 5 fights total in 80 hours of playing Tides of Numenera and Disco Elysium. Games like Stardew Valley are popular. It's still possible to use non lethal stealth in several games, just like in these old Thief games.

Yes, fighting in games is very common. It was in 1998, too. But it's not "literally unthinkable" to do otherwise, and it takes about 10 seconds of honest reflection to know that.
Right. For example the Dishonored games allow non-lethal play throughs and for me these games are the real Thief successors in spirit.
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August 12th, 2021, 00:31
Originally Posted by bkrueger View Post
Right. For example the Dishonored games allow non-lethal play throughs and for me these games are the real Thief successors in spirit.
There was a Youtuber I miss (called himself "Wisdom" IIRC) and he set the goal of playing through Dishonored levels not only non-lethally, but non-combatively. I lack the patience for such a thing, but it's cool that it's possible.
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