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September 17th, 2021, 01:13
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Camellia is a jack of all trades for me. Bit of offensive spellcasting, bit of healing, and I have her using a bow. She's pretty solid with it.
She actually has the highest AC of anyone in the party with one of her hexes. So very tanky although low hp pool.
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September 17th, 2021, 01:20
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Camélia doesn't do any damage for me. How do you get her to do actual damage?
There is a feat that let her use her Dex score for damage output.
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September 17th, 2021, 02:02
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Actually, here's how it plays out for people who killed him:
1. You hire him for the dragon quest. This is mandatory.
Since when it's mandatory?
I thought it is an optional sidequest.

Nevertheless yes, he had been hired to kill you, details on that contract you learn later - if you don't kill Greybor.

In fact I wonder if any who killed Greybor even gets a chance to visit assassins' guild later in the game. For all I remember the door is inaccessible unless someone tells you about it and that would be through Greybor's story unless there is some other dialogue that does the same thing.
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
My character is lawful good. If anyone says "pay me 25.000 or I'll kill you", they're dead. Simple as that.
That's lawful evil as you keep both the money and loot.
If stretched to circumstances, might pass as lawful neutral.
Killing someone over mere money, I can't take that as good.
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Now imagine what you find out about Camellia.
That is not the same thing. Her "business" is not about money.

----------------------------------------

Forgot something!
If you are not "lawful good but in fact evil" , you'll have at least two people in the brig instead of two corpses at the cemetary.
When the time comes to visit abyss in chapter 4 make sure you either execute (lawful g… erm… evil, right? ) or release them before you go to deal with the portal.

Just don't leave them locked - someone else will take the credit for dealing with them storywise. I wish someone told me this as now I don't know if there are consequences.


Also in chapter 3 don't forget to visit the suspicious "gibberling" again and suggest him to move to Drezen. Eventually he'll have a hidden sidetask for you, another hint in chapter 5 and will help you in chapter 6.
Dunno why he isn't marked on the town map like irrelevant people (Ciel for example), but stays near the spot where Camellia is lurking.


Also in chapter 3, you will receive an invitation to revisit the village with dolls on trees. It is not a quest. But if you do that, you'll get a nice diplomacy boost and learn some more stuff about the village.
Spoiler



Finally, Lady Konomy.
Just ignore her empty threats and pick only aspects of the crusade you find the most beneficial for your case. Which are basically any she didn't suggest.
She'll be pissed off every time and it's such a shame there is no voiceover on those lines.
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Last edited by joxer; September 17th, 2021 at 02:49.
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September 17th, 2021, 08:45
I did find kinda disturbing how throughout the game a lot of lawful choices are about executing your own soldiers just to make an example of them when a lot of the time they are just terrified. I mean, they are fighting planar-traveling/teleporting aliens that enjoy eating their flesh and soul in a world where the afterlife exists for a fact and they can in fact spend eternity suffering if a demon takes their lives. It's a tad terrifying.

I can see how trialing them would be lawful, but field executing them on the spot without more than a heartbeat's consideration, and on your own whim doesn't feel like a plain "lawful" action, unless the game was developed by Stalin or Fidel Castro.
Last edited by Nereida; September 17th, 2021 at 09:15.
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September 17th, 2021, 10:53
Whelp, I just killed off 2 of my companions - one by choice and one because the companion betrayed me. Really didn't see it coming. This is first time I killed off any companions in the game I enjoy, feeling pretty terrible at the moment

I also forgot about the bug that gives endless loading screen if you loot everything off their body, so I had to re-do both of their quests again, argh!

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Actually, here's how it plays out for people who killed him:
1. You hire him for the dragon quest. This is mandatory. Only costs a few thousand.
It's not mandatory to have Greybor to finish the dragon hunt quest:

Spoiler
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September 17th, 2021, 13:37
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I did find kinda disturbing how throughout the game a lot of lawful choices are about executing your own soldiers just to make an example of them when a lot of the time they are just terrified…
Stalin.
Stalin did not execute everyone, only those he suspected can "dethrone" him.
For ordinary people there was always a need for workforce (Siberia).

Maniacs aside, there is a good reason why lawful choice in this case is separate from evil--neutral-good scale.
You do realize that in the real army a panicking soldier needs to be silenced before the panic spreads. It doesn't have to be by execution, but we're in a fantasy game with outdated society values.
The point is if you don't do something, you risk lives of others.

Still, thanks to the game design you do have a choice almost everywhere.
My first playthrough when you read my hints was obviously of chaotic nature.
But in some cases the most proper response seemed the lawful one.
Remember the spot where villagers are living in peace? And the leader? I killed that bastard without a second thought (lawful choice) although I didn't have to. Just an example where I felt numerous atrocities just cannot be excused.

These were rare occassions, but the game does change your alignment if you step outside of the initial one too many times.
And I love that possibility, people change in RL, why they shouldn't in a videogame?


Well, where are written companions' user builds?
I need to restart the game for sakes of "ch2/3 crusade without hk" strategy.
Plus I want to try trickster path.
And I don't want to autolevel party members this time.
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September 17th, 2021, 13:51
Today's lesson is on feats!

loading…

00:00 Intro
00:38 Intro to Feats
01:52 Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot
04:45 Weapon Focus
05:35 Armor & Shield Focus
06:36 Improved Initiative
07:31 Spell Penetration
09:20 Spell Focus
10:28 Power Attack / Deadly Aim
12:11 Cleave
13:18 Rapid Shot
14:14 Manyshot
14:49 Selective Channel
16:00 Two-Weapon Fighting

I'm not so keen on Rapid Shot and Power Attack unless I'm sure the attack roll will be fine, so maybe later in the game. But I'm definitely a believer of PBS and PS to avoid that nasty -4 penalty (costs 2 feats though).
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September 17th, 2021, 13:56
There is this site with very good build optimisation for companions and a diverse choice of strong main character builds that should get you through Hard/Unfair difficulty, if you can make the most of it. It does not contemplate the roleplay or background, just mechanics and party composition - https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder…/guides/Builds

It also has a detailed list of feats and skills and ranks them by usefulness and efficiency.

As for that guy, I executed him too. He was purposely deceiving the people and allowing the demons to set a firm foothold in the material plane, and to get away with it, he tried to lure me into an ambush to kill me, the champion of the crusade that is attempting to save the world. He was a danger to the free people of the world. Plus he had executed the crusaders that came prior to the village and hanged their corpses at the gates. He had to go.

PS: The Stalin reference was because it is well known that in World War times, any Russian soldiers that attempted to flee from the battle were promptly executed by their officers. That kind of makes you more willing to keep pushing towards the enemy. That said, not even nazis would devour their souls and torture them for eternity in the afterlife. If that were the case, it seems more acceptable to try to flee at the cost of being executed by your officer, you just die and all pain is gone. The fact that demons take your soul and torture you in the Abyss for eternity makes fighting them a whole new layer of scary!
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September 17th, 2021, 14:20
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
There is this site with very good build optimisation for companions and a diverse choice of strong main character builds that should get you through Hard/Unfair difficulty, if you can make the most of it. It does not contemplate the roleplay or background, just mechanics and party composition - https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder…/guides/Builds
Thanks!
I actually wanted for my first playthrough a rogue with a jaguar pet - a class that does not exist, the closest to it are hunters I think, but didn't try that.
I'm gonna check there if there is such, yet efficient, dualclass.
Besides such character would fit perfectly a trickster route, right?
I didn't know when I started that trickster exists though.

But companions on autolevel in the ending chapter were pretty pathetic.
That's why I ask, either Owlcat made autolevel for storymode only or, and that's also a high possibility, or it's bugged.
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September 17th, 2021, 14:30
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
That is not the same thing. Her "business" is not about money.
Look up how Lawful Good character's are supposed to role-play.

Again it was about being Lawful Good not that dwarf.

Please read posts properly joxer. I know it' hard for you.
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September 17th, 2021, 15:17
Is there any site with the companions' default class build progression?

I really don't want to micromanage the level up on this run, but I'd like to see what they'll choose later.
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September 17th, 2021, 15:29
Gods, army battle is a real slog in chapter 5 for power level 11-12 enemy armies. They have insane number of units and I can't keep up with their number because the number of units you can raise is limited - I have enough resources but can't raise many of them per week. Frustrating!!!
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September 17th, 2021, 15:50
Originally Posted by purpleblob1 View Post
Gods, army battle is a real slog in chapter 5 for power level 11-12 enemy armies. They have insane number of units and I can't keep up with their number because the number of units you can raise is limited - I have enough resources but can't raise many of them per week. Frustrating!!!
What? No.
Remember:
- 3 stacks of melee vulgaris in front. Cheapest ones (those you train per week).
- 3 stacks of different archers in the second row.
- 0 (zero) hellknights.

No reason to rush all, you will unlock special Azata path archers as the third stack so you don't need to keep those (IIRC) 17 rangers.
Fights become trivial and basically depend on your energy per day so you can't win 6 demon armies in a day, but only 5.
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Look up how Lawful Good character's are supposed to role-play.
How about no.

This is not BG, you're presented with all possible dialogue choices so choose.
As I said above, if you take a stroll too much, your alignment will shift.

There is another thing, and it is lawful not being automatically lawful good. Or Evil. Or neutral.
Finally alignments in this game are not a horoscope where only 12 destinies exist and there are no more varieties. You have a choice, but will face consequences.

Take yourself for example.
You never cared about octopodes till you moved to a certain country.
And then those creatures became your fetish.
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September 17th, 2021, 18:44
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Since when it's mandatory?
I thought it is an optional sidequest.
It is actually listed as a main quest, but as purple explained: The dragon simply shows up later if you don't hire the dwarf to kill it. Interesting.

Originally Posted by joxer View Post
That's lawful evil as you keep both the money and loot.
If stretched to circumstances, might pass as lawful neutral.
Killing someone over mere money, I can't take that as good.
I didn't kill him because of money; I killed him because he tried to blackmail me, which is illegal. Also, he tried to kill me, which is also illegal. If there was a choice to throw him in prison, that's what I'd do, but the choice never came. He simply attacked when I refused to let myself be blackmailed.

To accept a blackmail might be chaotic good or so, depending on the circumstances, but a lawful good character would never have anything to do with blackmailing.
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September 17th, 2021, 20:33
Illegal? In times of war taking a hit job is - illegal?
Where does it say so?

You can execute half of companions in chapter 2 and chapter 3 when you meet them because their existence is illegal and by that evil judge Dredd logic you'll have only Seelah with you in the final chapter, everyone else will meet "off with their head" fate.
Lann? When you learn who his father is, that's illegal.
Sosiel? Well, his brother ended up somewhere illegal and he's obsessed with him, that's illegal too.
Ember? She makes freinds with cultists, that's illegal.
Arush? A demon, she's illegal.
Woljif? He stole something, that's illegal.
Daeran? Lied about The Other, that's illegal.
Regill? Dares to test you - twice, that's especially illegal.
Nenio? Followed a demon, that's illegal.
Finnean? Sure, it's only a talking weapon, but once you find out how it was made, that's illegal.

Not sure if snake, cat and imp pets are illegal.
To make sure you're not carrying a contraband in your inventory, I suggest you sell them.

Man just say I did not want to depart with my pocketchange and I'll understand.
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September 17th, 2021, 20:41
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
by that evil judge Dredd logic
Haha, love it. Or if you want to stay in this game, Hulrun logic.

Being Lawful Good does not, to me, mean killing anyone you think broke the law.
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September 17th, 2021, 21:08
Funny how it is difficult to be truly LG in this game. "Loyal" answers often seem more LN (or LE). "Good" answers are generally better but abusing them can easily take you to the NG path.
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September 17th, 2021, 22:41
One could say it is a fine line between LG and LE

One reason I rather like chaotic good which seems to allow more wiggle room for decision making.

Part of the question is if someone is LG whether the lawful part is more important than the good part. Often that seems to be the case as they probably feel that law and order overall benefits society as a whole so sometimes individuals can't be shown mercy if justice has to be met. However, being on good, versus evil or neutral, they are supposed to try and show some mercy and help people against evil.

If you start doing good as the more important part of LG then that seems to drift you over into NG.

It can be tough sometimes to do the right thing when stuck between mercy and justice or the individual (like best friend or close family) and society.
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September 17th, 2021, 22:45
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Haha, love it. Or if you want to stay in this game, Hulrun logic.

Being Lawful Good does not, to me, mean killing anyone you think broke the law.
Funny you say that as playing a Lawful good Paladin in Kingmaker basically had you kill every monster. The way Owlcat handled it, it was almost Lawful Evil at times.

Hellnight Regill put the entire alignment is perspective using the queen as an example.
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Last edited by Couchpotato; September 18th, 2021 at 01:02.
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September 17th, 2021, 22:59
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
One could say it is a fine line between LG and LE

One reason I rather like chaotic good which seems to allow more wiggle room for decision making.
To be fair, I played a CG character, and I found difficulty to find any alignment answers that suited my character's personality. She is a character I know very well because I've been playing her for years in tabletop RPGs, last adventure she went through was Descent into Avernus, which is, you could say, similar to Wrath of the Righteous in many ways, and she was an absolute blast to play in there. However, in Wrath of the Righteous I was forced to choose between options or behaviours that are not close to my character in any way.

I feel in fact Chaotic choices suffer the most in that they are too narrowly defined a lot of the time in describing some action or reaction that doesn't fit the situation. It's hard to portray every character in a few dialogue options, of course, but being a little more ambiguous in the way they present these options would have helped. At some point, either my character acted like a buffoon for no reason, or suddenly became an avatar of Law, with nothing in between other than a random (Evil) "I don't like your face. DIE!" filler that just made the feeling of lacking a real choice worse.

Not a big deal, really. My expectations about being able to really bring my nuanced character concepts to life in a scripted RPG are thin, but I did feel a little encased in roles or actions towards the chaotic axis that could have been better presented, imo.
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