Black Geyser - Gameplay Video & Kickstarter Soon

The whole greed concept certainly sounds different, I'll wait till the game is released to see what it really does. Different is not always a bad thing.

I'm interested and will absolutely check out the Kickstarter. I'm also with the sceptics on the Greed system. The implementation I have no problem with, but the explanation better make sense. If I was a king whose decisions affected thousands I could see the logic in a Goddess of greed getting enpowered, but an adventurer? I'm actually a bit intrigued regarding how they'll convince me of that.

purpleblob said:

I've already read all info on your website. When I say "differentiate", I didn't mean tell me anything that differs to BG but something that stand out as more interesting or done better. None of the features described so far has grabbed my attention particularly but I will keep an eye on it.

Click to expand...

To be honest I don't have a problem with a game being just like Baldur's Gate, but with a new story, characters, different spells and abilities, etc.

There's a bit of unintentional comedy in the name. In the UK, the name would be pronounced Black Geezer. As in:

"You know my mate Tony? Yeah, you know, Tall Tony - black geezer."

And then you add, "Black Geezer: Courier of Darkness". Sounds like an evil DHL driver.

To be honest I don't have a problem with a game being just like Baldur's Gate, but with a new story, characters, different spells and abilities, etc.

Click to expand...

The aspects you listed are all provided by Black Geyser: Couriers of Darkness. The challenge is that one part of our fans wants a game that is as close to Baldur's Gate as possible, while the other one wants brave novelties and differences with only a loose connection to Baldur's Gate style atmosphere & mechanics. So, to each his own. If you favor one part of the fan base, you may not impress the other part. As we all know, in gaming industry, there is no way to meet everyone's expectations, so it cannot be the goal.

Even though the Black Geyser team has a strong notion of what game we want to create, the feedback of fans is a must to make this a great game we all love.

Ripper said:

There's a bit if unintentional comedy in the name. In the UK, the name would be pronounced Black Geezer. As in:

"You know my mate Tony? Yeah, you know, Tall Tony - black geezer."

And then you add, "Black Geezer: Courier of Darkness". Sounds like an evil DHL driver.

Click to expand...

Wow, didn't know that. I thought that the first "e" in Geyser is pronounced as the letter "y" in the word "my". Is that so in American English only?

wolfing said:

To be honest I don't have a problem with a game being just like Baldur's Gate, but with a new story, characters, different spells and abilities, etc.

Click to expand...

I want the game to differentiate itself to BG as in not "BG or IE engine clone". Sure, I have no problem with the game with features similar to BG but not the exact copy/clone. This constant BG name dropping in every post and the logo that look suspiciously similar to Black Isle logo isn't really giving me a positive vibe.

It's just these spiritual successors have turned out much inferior to BG in terms of execution IMO. When I say "done better" I don't mean throw in something crazily spectacular and new, I just want each element of the game well thought out and work well together.

Rothgor said:

Wow, didn't know that. I thought that the first "e" in Geyser is pronounced as the letter "y" in the word "my". Is that so in American English only?

Click to expand...

Pretty much.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J8dNwTt4lR4

Ripper said:

Pretty much.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J8dNwTt4lR4

Click to expand...

Or just check a British dictionary, they have voice pronunciations these days too. More authoritative (and it agrees): https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/geyser

When news of the game spreads via word-of-mouth in the Commonwealth, people will assume this game is about an old black guy. :lol:

In the UK we use geezer a bit differently - it doesn't imply age or anything, it's just synonymous with "guy" or "bloke". As in, "Let's ask that geezer over there." There's nothing pejorative about it, but the confused meaning in this case does sound a bit funny.

Stingray said:

Greed concept sounds seriously dumb - and yes, I've read the description of it on the game's website, not just what's in this thread. Even if one were to buy into the concept that people being greedy would increase the power of some goddess and create repercussions, surely the adventuring party we're playing is a tiny % of the population of the overall world, so why would a bit of greed on their part have such an outsized influence on the power of said goddess? It should be a drop in the bucket, a needle in a haystack.

Click to expand...

This thread is priceless. Bookmarked.

It is all aboard for disproportionate, oversized influence when it is big action, big consequences. Players desire to weigh on the outcome of the gameworld, they are the saviours of the kingdom, the world, the universe. They do and undo life perspectives, they determine fate and stuff.

Comes an idea that goes against their lootwhorism and suddenly, the just a simple ant in an anthill among anthills, all lost on a large planet narrative is served.
So expected.

Rooting it into lore is near impossible since the rejection comes from double standards. Exceptional actions come with exceptional consequences. Just as a small party can determine the fate of a universe, the negatives and the positives apply as well.

It is not possible to serve people who desire to feel exceptional beings and commoners at the same time. Either they are out of the common or they belong to the common.

Blah blah blah.

More useless garbage from the master of it.

This could of course be rooted in lore.
Just let the main protagonist be the bastard son of the goddess of order or something.
Yeah, that's not really a creative idea, but as a designer/writer of a fantasy world you have a lot of options.

ChienAboyeur raised important points. I won't reveal here whether these points have to do with Black Geyser's integration of greed into lore, but speaking generally:

In a past game (BG), you started with a 0 XP character and a simple wolf could kill you. At the end of the saga, you defeated a villain who summoned/gated various demons to her aid. In the last chapters of the game, your influence to the world was much greater. At the beginning of the saga, however, your divine origin didn't matter. A simple wolf could kill you, as written above. Moreover, even when you got stronger, an opponent of non-divine blood (voice acted by David Gaider*) could still pose a danger to you.

* EDIT: David Warner

So (again just in theory), who said that your party would be the only one in Black Geyser to have a disproportionately greater influence on the world compared to others? Maybe there are 5 (or 50) adventurer parties, and (for example) a population of 300,000 in the medieval kingdom. The influence of these 50 parties can be disproportionately greater than the influence of a simple citizen or peasant. And think of the concept of synergy. When 1+1 is not 2, but 3. A good adventurer party means a synergy. And so do their actions. Of course, if the above stuff is applied in a game, it must be deeply and comprehensively justified in the world lore. No doubt.

An even more important point. Who said that your actions (related to greed) will seriously influence the Black Geyser world at the beginning of the game? Who said your influence will be constant, or even linearly changing? Perhaps at level 1, your influence is not greater than of any other citizen, which means you don't make a difference indeed (this was just a general note again, so not revealing how Black Geyser actually approaches this question). Someone mentioned a king before in this thread - that a king's greed (or generousity) could actually be justified to be able to accelerate or slow the spreading of the greed in the kingdom. Think of a high-level adventurer party with a high reputation in the kingdom. In some games and movies, kings actually hire such parties for quests, because their own resources cannot do it.

These were just general notes. As Morrandir said, there are many options, and I currently can't reveal Black Geyser's approach in this matter.

The more I hear and read about this project, the more interested I become. I'm very much looking forward to the finished product.

The concept of greed (and its integration and application to the game) is a powerful "tool" in my opinion. And as with powerful tools, it's possible to use them wisely or unwisely in game design. So I understand the concerns of some people here that such a novel feature can be a double-edged sword if not in the right hands.

Yep, don't be afraid to do new stuff. Just thin it through.

Morrandir said:

This could of course be rooted in lore.
Just let the main protagonist be the bastard son of the goddess of order or something.
Yeah, that's not really a creative idea, but as a designer/writer of a fantasy world you have a lot of options.

Click to expand...

This shows it can not be rooted in lore. In all likelihood, this project hit a nerve, just as loot boxes hit a nerve.

The suggestion is indeed not creative: people on this site were all exposed to variants, they are used to the son of a peasant (sometimes later revealed as a son to a king, a superior being etc) accomplishing high deeds.
This is nothing new, it is a mere convention that can even be dismissed: players accept their character achieve with no justification whatsover.

Yet people failed to commute this convention to the greed system. They are familiar with the mechanics of oversized consequences though. Anyone on this site could have come with a similar suggestion to get things together.
Yet they did not.
They demand a disproportionate influence on the greed system to be properly justified in the lore when they do without many other cases.

It is circular: the postulate is rejected in the first place. The greed system is rooted in the lore. They reject the explanation as cheesy, not convincing etc

People are too used to disproportionate consequences. They could have as well treated it as another disproportionate consequence pattern, as they have seen so many of. Maybe consider the freshness of it.
Yet they made a special case of something they accepted a long time ago and supported.

This project hit a nerve. People will not be satisified by it being rooted in lore, this is a story to appear open minded. The mind is made up, the rejection is done, they ask to be convinced despite being determined.

One way out is to dilute the feature so much it no longer weighs, it no longer matters. At this point, it will be fine.

Putting restraints on looting hits a nerve.

The only mistake made here was the dev joining the discussion.

ToddMcF2002 said:

The only mistake made here was the dev joining the discussion.

Click to expand...

I've gone from sceptical to interested since that happened.