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November 1st, 2020, 07:23
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post

Also disagree that RTwP is a relic of the past - if anything is a relic it is TB. Nothing was proven by the TB mods in PK or POE. I wouldn't have sunk 400 hours into PK or 200 into POE if they had only been TB.

Just because TB is table top style, because its the simplest to implement, doesn't mean a computer game has to follow that same style. That sounds like a Tabletop purist talking.

I used to play TB growing up but its a time sink these days.
RTwP is considered "a relic" by some because some people considered a limitation of the infinity engine at the time. But the infinity engine games were so beloved that some people start liking the combat system.

The problem with the computer version not following the same style of the PnP is that when you advertise a video game based on a PnP RPG game, the fans of the tabletop game are going to expect that the game stick close to the rules. Furthermore, it is not about purism, the rules were made to work in TB so the system will work better in TB.

I honestly enjoyed lots of RTwP games, including the most recent one, PF:K. I don't think that RTwP is terrible. But I think the TB in PF:K was an improvement. In my first playthrough of PF:K I noticed that I wasn't able to enjoy the tanks of my party very much, because I spent most of the time in combat controlling the spellcasters. In my second run tho I could enjoy all members of my party equally. Another thing that really annoys me in RTwP is that I have to keep running away from the enemies with my spellcasters all the time, otherwise they get killed. This is really annoying, doesn't feel natural and it doesn't happen in TB video games.

Tbh, the more experience I have with cRPGs the more limited I think RTwP is. I don't know if it is the fact that I am getting older and I don't have the same reflex/attention capacity that I once had to monitor so many things at once, or if I just started to realize that TB feels better for me. But I get I so many people prefer RTwP, it is more fast-paced, for better or for worse. The only thing I don't get is why so many complain that the games take longer? Even if your time is limited, you have more gameplay time to fill your limited free time for a longer, why the rush to beat the game?
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November 1st, 2020, 07:43
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post

Tbh, the more experience I have with cRPGs the more limited I think RTwP is. I don't know if it is the fact that I am getting older and I don't have the same reflex/attention capacity that I once had to monitor so many things at once, or if I just started to realize that TB feels better for me. But I get I so many people prefer RTwP, it is more fast-paced, for better or for worse. The only thing I don't get is why so many complain that the games take longer? Even if your time is limited, you have more gameplay time to fill your limited free time for a longer, why the rush to beat the game?
Couldn't have put it better
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November 1st, 2020, 07:43
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
'Most' isn't all. Why would I give it a plus point for performance if it runs bad for me and it isn't a problem from my end ? That wouldn't make any sense.
Runs poorly for me too. If I have it auto detect my settings, it maxes everything out and it runs like absolute shit. I've had playable results after I updated my graphics drivers and tweaked a few things, but it's still jerky, especially during cut scenes, and textures often load in slowly.
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November 1st, 2020, 08:26
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
'Most' isn't all. Why would I give it a plus point for performance if it runs bad for me and it isn't a problem from my end ? That wouldn't make any sense.
Did I say it was all? Most is most, and most people aren't having performance issues to that degree. It's that simple.

I noticed you also claimed Solasta runs "terrible" for you as well. Are there any games that don't run poorly on your system?
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November 1st, 2020, 08:36
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Did I say it was all? Most is most, and most people aren't having performance issues to that degree. It's that simple.

I noticed you also claimed Solasta runs "terrible" for you as well. Are there any games that don't run poorly on your system?
Solasta runs decently. That comment was meant for this thread. Hence I removed it. Also, the preview is based on 'my' experience, not most people's. It's also as simple as that. Just because you're not having issues doesn't mean the game is optimized for the bazillion combination of PC parts out there.
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November 1st, 2020, 08:52
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
Solasta runs decently. That comment was meant for this thread. Hence I removed it. Also, the preview is based on 'my' experience, not most people's. It's also as simple as that. Just because you're not having issues doesn't mean the game is optimized for the bazillion combination of PC parts out there.
Not sure why you'd make that comment and then backpeddle on it, but ok.
Since you seem to be having these issues with more than one game, you might want to see if there's something you can do to better optimize your system.
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November 1st, 2020, 08:59
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Not sure why you'd make that comment and then backpeddle on it, but ok.
Since you seem to be having these issues with more than one game, you might want to see if there's something you can do to better optimize your system.
Who said I'm having issues with more than one game? I removed that comment because that was meant for BG3, not Solasta. I typed it there accidentally instead of here. I'm sure the fault is with the game, not my PC. If I was reviewing it on a potato PC, I'd not even mention the performance aspect but an i5 and 1070 should clearly be more than enough to run BG3 well. Just checked steam hub again and it's not just me
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November 1st, 2020, 09:05
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
Who said I'm having issues with more than one game? I removed that comment because that was meant for BG3, not Solasta. I typed it there accidentally instead of here.
I misunderstood what you were saying.

Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
but an i5 and 1070 should clearly be more than enough to run BG3 well.
Yeah, that's kind of my point. It's odd that your issues are that bad on that system. They shouldn't be.
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November 1st, 2020, 09:07
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post

Yeah, that's kind of my point. It's odd that your issues are that bad on that system. They shouldn't be.
Well if it was just an isolated case, I'd agree but It's not just me. Check the forums yourself and you'll see people having the same issue as me, it's especially worse after the last hotfix. If it runs bad on my specs and all of my efforts to rectify it has failed, then how is it the fault of my system? Clearly, the game isn't optimized for my hardware.
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November 1st, 2020, 09:11
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
Well if it was just an isolated case, I'd agree but It's not just me. Check the forums yourself and you'll see people having the same issue as me, it's especially worse after the last hotfix. If it runs bad on my specs and all of my efforts to rectify it has failed, then how is it the fault of my system? Clearly, the game isn't optimized for my hardware.
I didn't say it was just you, but it's obviously a minority. I just checked the forums myself, and to be honest, there really aren't that many people talking about it, especially when you consider how many people are playing this.
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November 1st, 2020, 09:14
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I didn't say it was just you, but it's obviously a minority. I just checked the forums myself, and to be honest, there really aren't that many people talking about it.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878445108529/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878446607440/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878441062963/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878441062963/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…53344568049780
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…3344564963769/

These are threads just from the general discussions. There are more in the Technical problems section

Obviously, it's a minority that's having the issues but that doesn't mean the issues aren't there. It's the fault of the developers and it should be fixed.
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November 1st, 2020, 09:23
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878445108529/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878446607440/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878441062963/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…0878441062963/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…53344568049780
https://steamcommunity.com/app/10869…3344564963769/

These are threads just from the general discussions. There are more in the Technical problems section
Yes, and it's still a very small minority when you consider how many people are playing this.

Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
Obviously, it's a minority that's having the issues but that doesn't mean the issues aren't there. It's the fault of the developers and it should be fixed.
Again, did I say no one was having any issues?

Of course they should be fixed, and of course it's the devs that should do it. Who else would? You seem to have a gift for stating the obvious.
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November 1st, 2020, 09:24
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yes, and it's still a very small minority when you consider how many people are playing this.



Again, did I say no one was having any issues?

Of course they should be fixed, and of course it's the devs that should do it. Who else would? You seem to have a gift for stating the obvious.
Uh wasn't it you that assumed that I was having the issues because I was running it on a potato? Nice railroading to make it seem that the problem is with the people that are playing the game, not the game itself :3
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November 1st, 2020, 09:30
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
Uh wasn't it you that assumed that I was having the issues because I was running it on a potato? Nice railroading to make it seem that the problem is with the people that are playing the game, not the game itself :3
The potato comment was a joke. I wasn't joking about optimizing your system though. I'm running a GTX 1080, i7 4790, and 16 GB. Not a big difference from what you have. Like I said, it runs completely smooth for me with everything maxed.

It was just a suggestion though. Didn't realize you'd get butthurt over it.
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November 1st, 2020, 09:34
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
The potato comment was a joke. I wasn't joking about optimizing your system though. I'm running a GTX 1080, i7 4790, and 16 GB. Not a big difference from what you have. Like I said, it runs completely smooth for me with everything maxed.

It was just a suggestion though. Didn't realize you'd get butthurt over it.
What are we going around in circles? It runs fine for you, good. It doesn't for me and I'm sure the problem is with the game and not with my PC being poorly optimized. Other games wouldn't run well if it was the case.
Plus, Why would I get butthurt over a stranger's comment on the internet? I just stated the facts. I appreciate the feedback, for real. I am waiting to upgrade my CPU when the new Ryzen chips launch
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November 1st, 2020, 09:38
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
All I did was say it runs fine for most people. You're the one who insisted on making it more.
All I said was that it doesn't run fine for me and lots of other people. I even showed you the threads. You're the one going on about how I have to optimize my system
Also, what's this about 'making it more?'. I appreciate a good discussion. I didn't mean to insult you or anything if you took it the wrong way. Ask @Couchpotato - I like to think of myself as a very friendly guy. I appreciate each and every feedback <3
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November 1st, 2020, 09:48
Originally Posted by yemeth View Post
All I said was that it doesn't run fine for me and lots of other people. I even showed you the threads. You're the one going on about how I have to optimize my system
I think it's pretty obvious that we were both going on about things. It's all good though.
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November 1st, 2020, 14:27
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
The only thing I don't get is why so many complain that the games take longer? Even if your time is limited, you have more gameplay time to fill your limited free time for a longer, why the rush to beat the game?
For me, more is not always better, and some games exceed my boredom threshold quite easily. I haven't played through any of the games that were designed for RTwP in TB mode, but I expect that the volume of combat at the slower pace would burn me out long before I'd enjoyed all the content.
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November 1st, 2020, 16:23
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
For me, more is not always better, and some games exceed my boredom threshold quite easily. I haven't played through any of the games that were designed for RTwP in TB mode, but I expect that the volume of combat at the slower pace would burn me out long before I'd enjoyed all the content.
This plus I prefer to not spend all the time I play a game in combat. I enjoy a lot of other things besides combat.

TB combat takes a very long time, especially big battles. I prefer long games and I have hundreds, actually thousands, of hours in many games. I just don't want 99% of it to feel like combat because TB takes so long.

I can pause with RT and do very well. Sometimes for some boss fights I agree TB can be better as you get more control. There are times now and then I like TB for strategy and control.

I already indicated I have actually enjoyed (*gasp*) some of the TB combat in BG3. After DDOS2 I expected to grow to loath it again but the opposite happened - I started to enjoy it. Because I think BG3 is far better balanced for TB then DDOS2 was. I also think they struck the right balance of combat to "other things" ration so the game didn't feel like it was just one big long fight.

In general my issue with TB is pretty simple - I don't like it because of the time it can take. Some nights I may be in the mood for a good strategic battle and then TB is often better. But that also means the only play time I get is maybe that one battle and perhaps a quest. I like to move forward in games.

I am the opposite of those who say they prefer TB because of age. I am 56 years old with slow reflexes. But I find pausing to view things and then queue orders works just fine.

From all the TB discussions I see here I think it really comes down to some people love combat more than others. Those who love combat don't mind focusing on it in the game and hence prefer TB mode for the strategy and because they WANT to spend time in combat.

I want to spend my time exploring, doing quests, reading lore, uncovering secrets, making characters, leveling up, getting to know companions, and have some fun really big battles with a bunch of smaller ones that don't drag out too long. My TB fights in BG3 averaged from 15 mins to 2 and half hours (for the longest with reloads included due to deaths or obvious fact I wasn't going to make it). Long battles mean you are locked in. You can't save and leave the game.

It isn't that I think TB is bad or wrong or horrible. I simply don't like it that much anymore because I don't want to be locked into combat constantly. I'm not sitting around with all my friends rolling dice and laughing and telling jokes or sharing lore while we fight and it doesn't matter really how much progress is made as its more about being with people.

When playing a computer game I am not doing that (if SRPG). I also think one can enjoy a ruleset for a game without expecting it to be an exact match to the ruleset on a different medium. Simple as that. I expect a game that promises to use a ruleset to stick fairly close but also to adapt to the computer. I think TB or RTwP are both viable combat options for a rule set being played on a computer, even though I see TB as more of a relic. I find RTwP more immersive and realistic. But it mainly comes down to time commitment.

In my younger days I could spend hours on end planning out combat moves and hence enjoyed TB more. Now I have more limited time and I guess patience for spending long hours in a game doing just combat. I like combat but not like many around here seem to - it feels like the big TB supporters love combat the most in games versus other parts.

All that said I have to admit the combat in BG3 has grown on me and I can't oppose TB as vehemently as I used to.

I suspect DDOS2 really soured me on TB combat as it was the last big combat game that was TB, after not playing TB for so long, and it brought back all the things I disliked about TB - the long battles, the reloads once you realize you most likely won't win, the constant fights, how long it takes for large battles as each enemy AI plans out its move.

I doubt I will ever become a TB promoter or big fan but BG3 has at least gotten me to enjoy that style of combat again even if I still prefer RTwP given a choice.
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