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May 8th, 2021, 12:50
Since I didn't want to polute the generic "what are you playing thread" with my Sekiro woes, I thought I'd start one. But it might be pretty sad if I'm the only one currently playing it. But I feel a little journal like this might do me good. To at least vent out my frustration.

After another 10-15 tries on the Emma/Isshin fight, I've maybe made some progress with the Emma fight, in that I was so far able to defeat hear 3-4 times now. But I still don't have it locked down. Still plenty of situations where I either consume all my healing gourds, to not have a chance in the Isshin fight, or I just flat out die in her fight. Also, I constantly still get caught by her grab. And I especially hate it when she starts (or at least that's what she appears to) the Ashina Cross animation, tricks me into thinking she'll do that, and then switches to her grab. I frikkin hate that.

But then I come to Isshin's fight, who just mops the floor with me. Out of all tries, I maybe once got to 60% of his posture being damaged. And then I'm just dead. I don't even want to imagine getting to his final phase. It's so frikkin demoralizing.

After I take a break from the game, I actually don't feel like going back into it, only to get pummeled again. I think I need to stop going into the fights and just randomly trying to be reactive to their attacks. And actually go in with a plan. But that's gonna be complicated, since it needs to be a plan simple enough that when the plan innevitably goes wrong, I can do something about that. And not just have a rigid plan where if anything doesn't go according to it, I need to restart.

Holy shit. I also wonder if I should just back out of the idea that I'll finish all endings in this playthrough, and no longer go for the Shura ending. But then I go and see some streamer (that probably played the game for 500+ hours) just frikkin breeze throught it, and I ask myself, why not me?
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May 8th, 2021, 14:16
I don't look at streamers and youtube, but the question to myself is "why should I do this?"

As I mentioned previously, this game caused damage to my arms when playing with controller, and as much as I enjoyed it, had to stop because of this. It is not a suitable game for my age I guess and there is no opportunity in the game to mitigate this like in Dark Souls games (different builds, NPCs, optional bosses, .. etc.).

It also might be the case that I did not understood the mechanics and gadgets fully to enable me to exploit them to my advantage, even though I played for more than 60 hours.

I may return to it one day just to enjoy the beginning parts or when they rebalance it for folks like me.
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May 8th, 2021, 15:05
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
I don't look at streamers and youtube, but the question to myself is "why should I do this?"

As I mentioned previously, this game caused damage to my arms when playing with controller, and as much as I enjoyed it, had to stop because of this. It is not a suitable game for my age I guess and there is no opportunity in the game to mitigate this like in Dark Souls games (different builds, NPCs, optional bosses, .. etc.).
I guess another reason why I should play this while I don't experience physical pain as bad as you describe. If I play a lot I do feel some cramping in my hand and fingers, but nothing too bad.

For me it's not an issue of understanding the mechanics. From what I noticed in how I play, my adrenaline is through the roof and I hardly am able to keep calm and do the mechanics as they should be done. So I constantly react out of fear and fail to properly time my moves. I mean, I noticed how I perceive the movement of the same enemy while in a youtube video of somebody else playing vs how I feel the enemy is moving while I'm in the game, with my excitement levels through the roof. Even though they move exactly at the same speed and perform the same mechanics, I swear in my sessions the feel like they move a whole lot faster. But once in a while, and very rarely, I'm able to remain calm and just look at the enemy movement, and I sometimes see them move slower than usual. I interpret that to mean my brain is focused and can actually see movement at a more acceptable speed. It's very weird. It's similar to what I've heard people who train in martial arts, after a certain level of experience you actually start to perceive your adversary a lot slower, since your brain is trained to look and notice things you missed before, and it all seemed like a blur before being trained.

But of course, this is all a moot point if you can't invest the time and train, if your hads and arms hurt. It's of course a show stopper.

Another thing with this game is that the margin of error being so thin, you cannot press the wrong button at the wrong moment. You cannot regain from that. You do that, and the enemy either gets you into a flurry of attacks since your whole timing is off, or by the time you do manage to recover and get back into the flow, you've already lost too much life or resources to even bother continuing. Yeah, the margin of error is very slim. If you do manage to get space and time to heal, you've already lost posture that the enemy has recovered, so you're pretty much back to square one in the fight, but lost the healing item or resources you used for nothing. It's very relentless in how it wants you to approach boss fights, since they recover health really fast, unless they're damaged.
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May 8th, 2021, 15:25
As I see your achievements go by in Steam, I'm thinking "He killed that damn dirty ape"

"now he's a total Ninja"
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May 8th, 2021, 16:27
Originally Posted by xSamhainx View Post
As I see your achievements go by in Steam, I'm thinking "He killed that damn dirty ape"

"now he's a total Ninja"
Oh, wish that I were. I feel like a fraud seeing how bad I perform against the current fights I'm up against. I constantly feel I've learned nothing so far, and somehow managed to skate by on luck alone.

Also, the apes now seem like a real pushover compared to what I'm up against now. But then I guess I'll probably stumble onto the next one feeling the current one was a pushover compared to that new one.
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May 8th, 2021, 17:02
This is unbelievable. I'm now not even able to get past Emma, after 5 tries. What in the actual fuck is going with me. I cannot time my deflects properly. I'm starting to wonder if I maybe have some sort of slow reaction time by default, and I need to really focus to even meet the minimum bar needed to proceed.

I'm done for today.
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May 8th, 2021, 17:12
You are absolutely right, the margin of error is very tight which makes it frustrating.

Another thing that I noticed is that the longer I play in a session, the worst my hand-eye coordination and reflexes get. I guess its fatigue, so I suggest to take breaks to rest .
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May 8th, 2021, 17:20
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
You are absolutely right, the margin of error is very tight which makes it frustrating.

Another thing that I noticed is that the longer I play in a session, the worst my hand-eye coordination and reflexes get. I guess its fatigue, so I suggest to take breaks to rest .
Yeah, but I just came back from a 2h or so break. And now I can no longer get past Emma. It's really frustrating since I don't know why I'm performing this badly. I can't identity the cause. It's probably mental also, since during the whole of those 2 hours my mind was on this fight that I dreaded coming back to. I may need to deconnect fully. I guess the fear is I either lose what skills I've gained, or this might just reveal I've not gained that much in hand-eye coordination as I thought. I'm also thinking about maybe trying a new controller. I guess I'll try anything?

I'm currently also watching some let's plays of those fights. Since in let's plays, unless they're staged, theoretically even streamers should have issues before they've practiced for the final walkthrough videos. And that's been my experience with let's play videos. Somehow it feel better to know that even the best started at a level I'm currently at
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May 8th, 2021, 18:20
Ok, it's definitely something with me on how well I perform in Sekiro. I just watched the guy, who's guides I've been using, play the game in a regular let's play manner, and he managed to kill Emma and Isshin on about his 10th or so try. And I don't believe he was pretending this was his first encounter with the two bosses. So it's either I'm at a low point in my skill/reaction level, or my default level is just too low for this game. I wish there were a test for reaction times that could be linked to at what level do you need to be to be acceptable at this game.
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May 8th, 2021, 22:16
Holy shit, I don't know how this happened.

After a few more hours of taking a break, I decided to go back into the game, with absolutely no expectation of winning. I just decided I want to train on Emma, and learn the timings without any emotional involvement upon losing.

So, I get in, fight her a bit, all relaxed. I time some, I miss others. Nothing out of the ordinary. And I die. And then do the same 2-3 more times. Again, I died. No expectation, just wanting to practice and actually play the game. Just as a sidenote, I noticed that when I'm fighting without the pressure or expectation to win, I have a lot more fun during the encounters. Shocking, right?

Then on the 4th or 5th try with Emma I notice that I'm getting pretty good with the timings, I reach her end state, where I can deathblow her. But I refuse, and just keep on working on my timings. Deflecting, dodging, and all that. And I take her to the deathblow state multiple times in that run. And then she kills me. So, I actually started to play around with her, like a mouse plays with her prey

Then on the next turn, I pretty flawlessly kill Emma, using only 1-2 of the healing gords. And I advance to Isshin with 7 more. And again, I try and do the same thing. Learn his moves and timings. No pressue. And I kid you not, during that same run I manage to deathblow Isshin once, and advance to his final phase.

During Isshin's final phase, I start to freak out a little, since it's the first time I got here. And I keep deflecting. He hits me a bunch. But I somehow always manage to run away and heal. And I do this back and forth a couple of times. I even manage to survive all of his One-Mind flurry of slashes, even though I did take significant damage a few times. And I also died once, but resurrected back.

And I keep at this, somehow managing to remain fairly calm. And in this same run, the first one I managed to even reach his final stage, I manage give him his final deathblow, killing him. And my jaw is on the floor. Holy f-ing shit! I frikkin did it. Not sure how. I suspect it's because I managed to not put pressure on myself, and just be present in the moment, and just doing my best.

Holy shit, this game!
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May 8th, 2021, 23:35
And we're back to the drawing board. I've tried the Owl fight about 10 times. And even though I said to myself I'm only doing recon into how his attacks look, it managed to get to me and I lost my temper in the end. Only managed once to get to his second phase.

I managed to learn most of his attacks, and how to sneak in an Ichimonji: Double at various times. But one thing I again can't seem to nail down. And it's again with the timings. I constantly feel I'm just guessing as to what's the exact moment I need to hit deflect for it to deflect. When there's a series of swings I can kind of establish the rythm, and deflect. But the first slashes, I almost never manage to deflect. And I can't tell whether its me hitting the button too late, or if the character is still in the previous animation. And it's annoying as hell.
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May 9th, 2021, 10:54
Fucking yes, dude! I killed Owl after 10-15 or so tries.

Holy shit is it exhilarating to defeat a foe that really challenged you. I think I managed to nail down the timing on his first swing. I think, without being fully aware, I was just hitting deflect right after my Ichimonji strike. When what I should have done, and started doing, was actually look at his swing arm, and only deflect when that moves. I know, basic right? But in the heat of the moment, and also probably since I reinforced fear about the swing that I knew would come after my Ichimonji strike, I would not wait the split second needed to actually properly time my deflect to his swing.

Man, feeling so good!
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May 9th, 2021, 12:25
And, I managed to uselessly defeat Owl again, since I thought I missed one of the steps needed for one of the endings. So I again went through the fight with Owl for another 5-10 times. And then I found out that no, I hadn't missed anything. So I just fought Owl again for nothing. XD At least I proved to myself that it wasn't a fluke. But I wish I hadn't needed to.
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May 9th, 2021, 15:40
loading…


Ditto.

Afte about a dozen tries I defeated the True Monk in Fountainhead Palace. But I did it with the guide, and this way I managed to skip phase 2 of his fight. It was a pain in the ass to perform (you have about 5 seconds after dealing his first deathblow, to target the right branch (since there's plenty and the auto-targetting system constantly targets the wrong one), jump there, and then target the monk before he summons his illusion, and dive on him in a deathblow.

Took me about 5 times to actually get up there and dive on him. And then got killed by his final form about 4 of those. But in the last one I somehow managed to get him. I did not like this fight. Plus again, with the timings. This timing issue is gonna haunt me until the end of the game, isn't it?

Oh, forgot to also mention that I also cleared the Owl's memory of Hirata, up until the fight with the Owl. I did not even want to attempt fighting him, since I hear he's a serious pain in the ass. I want to get more health and damage before I even give him the chance to turn me into a raging lunatic.

But the good part is, I seem to have opened another area that I can explore. I love exploring in this game. And Fountainhead Palace looks amazing.
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May 9th, 2021, 21:39
Made fantastic progress, cleared all of Fountainhead Palace. Killed the Carp, even managed to defeat the Divine Dragon, even though I only entered the fight expecting to be killed. But it was more of a gimmick fight. But visually it looked amazing.

So, now I've only got to upgrade some stuff, defeat Owl, the Demon of Hatred and then Genichiro. I forsee a lot of curse words in my future.
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May 9th, 2021, 22:40
So… I wanted to read this thread, but I think it is full of spoilers?

From what I read sounds like this game probably should be next on my playlist?
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May 9th, 2021, 22:45
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
So… I wanted to read this thread, but I think it is full of spoilers?

From what I read sounds like this game probably should be next on my playlist?
Oh, yeah. Plenty of spoilers. It's basically a journal of pain from the friendly neighbourhood masochist.
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May 13th, 2021, 06:19
So, next on your list: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2…Bennett_Foddy/
--
The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views….
-- Doctor Who in "Face of Evil"
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May 13th, 2021, 08:15
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
So, next on your list: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2…Bennett_Foddy/
I tried that for a bit. It’s really wild.
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May 15th, 2021, 12:07
Updating here since I want to respect the wishes of other members that don't want to know every update on Sekiro.

Ok, so last time I mentioned that I'm going through NG+ and have reached the Emma/Isshin fight which I have to do again, since for one of the achievement you need to have all bosses defeated in the same playthrough. And when I initially defeated Emma/Isshin, I did it in a playthrough where I hadn't beaten all others yet. And when I reverted my save-file it meant I had to beat Emma and Isshin again in NG+1.

And after about 10 tries I finally managed to beat Isshin again. But the way I did was just 1 in a million, for me at least. So I reach his final phase, he has about 33% of his life, I'm down to 25% maybe. No more healing gourds. No nothing. And I've just managed to get some distance from him, after his One-Mind attack somehow broke through my Umbrella shield.

So I see him in the distance, coming at me. I open my inventory ready to do the same thing I always do, pop Ako's Sugar for damage/posture and Divine Confetti, but also absolutely sure I'm dead. There's no chance. So I think, why even bother with popping those, since by the time I've popped them, he's already near since they take 3-5 secs to apply.

So, I sit for about 10 sec, ready to give up (still in the items menu). And it dawns on me that I've never used one powerup item, since it's risky as hell. Yashariku's Spiritfall. It's a powerup item that increases your damage to life and posture tremendously, but also halfs your life. So, not having much to lose and certain that it's for nothing anyway, I pop it. And I run towards Isshin, get one hit in, then deflect 3 of his, before he goes into a more long-windup attack, which I somehow manage to get behind. And I start wailing on him with the boosted attack power. And in a few hits he goes down. I was so frikkin happy. Also got a bit emotional, since I thought I'd never do it again, and that somehow the first time I beat them was a fluke.

And now, I kind of have motivation to start a new playthrough. But I'm also worried, since now I'm doing it on NG+2, I might stumble onto a new boss which is gonna be blocking for me. We shall see. But for now, I'm happy this is done. So happy. I cannot describe the feeling of relief I got from beating him. I'm 51% certain it's worth the pain and agony I went through.


Beautiful, isn't it?

Two more achievements, upgrading last 2 prosthetics and unlocking all skills and I'm 100% on it. The bad news is I've now got to beat all blocking bosses again on NG+2 until I get the rare upgrade material needed to upgrade those last 2 prosthetics.
Last edited by danutz_plusplus; May 15th, 2021 at 12:20.
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