12 Ways Consoles Are Hurting PC Gaming

JDR13

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Found this article over at Maximum PC. It's sure to start a few long-winded debates. :)

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/12_ways_consoles_are_hurting_pc_gaming?page=0,0

I don't agree with everything the author says, but I think he's spot on about a lot of things.

I liked this piece about about GFWL..

Ah yes, the standard-bearer for the “well clearly, if console gamers like it, PC gamers will love having it forced upon them too” movement. Calling Games for Windows a trainwreck wouldn't be doing it justice, because trainwrecks eventually end. We prefer to think of GFW as a trainwreck that collided with a car wreck that collided with a plane wreck that collided with the Large Hadron Collider. At every turn, it's tried to give PC gaming an Xbox Live makeover, and PC gamers have been unsurprisingly outraged. After all, if we wanted an Xbox, we would have bought a friggin' Xbox.


About the effect on developers..

If it hasn't already become glaringly apparent, game developers are only human. They can't be everything for everyone. We wish, however, that they'd stop feeling so pressured to lie about it. Unfortunately, the trend these days seems to go something like this: Formerly PC-Centric Developer X begins to focus on consoles. Longtime PC fans feel slighted and start complaining. Formerly PC-Centric Developer X replies that it'll always be a PC developer first and a console developer second. Then the PC version of its game doesn't get a demo, gets delayed for more than a year, and ends up being an outsourced port. We understand, developers and publishers: you're running a business. But we're not stupid. Give us the truth – even if it hurts.
 
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Yeah it has good points and bad points as you said. Get used to GFW as Microsoft plans to make it part of there next os. They plan to make the pc just like there precious xbox. Need evidence here is a video from an internal meeting at Microsoft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBPYdgy35KA&feature=player_embedded

Get use to pc avatars/more casual games/ and transactions.:'(
 
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If this is a "grand scheme", then it is impressive, this at least : Embrace the PC platform from the xbox direction, and then make the PC platform a proprietary platform - like the xbox is one ...

I don't know if I've been able to express wht I mean but this sounds to me like making the PC more and more lik the xbox,
until it IS an xbox - albeit one with a PC look.

They do know they can't make/turn the PC into a propriatary platform - because the PC has too much diversity in terms of hardware.

So they try it via the software way. Making the PC platform a propriatery platform via the OS.

And THEN - they don't even need the xbox anymore ! Because the PC is then already one !
 
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The only two on that list that bug me are Games for Windows Live and a lack of post-release support. GFWL is just a terrible program that Microsoft keeps trying to shove down people's throats just because they can.
 
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Those are the only things on that list that bother you? Really? Publishers love people like you. ;)

Well I mean bugs bother everyone, but I don't see them as a console port issue. Tons of PC exclusives have bugs. Mods were never my thing... GFWL does not annoy me much because I only play singleplayer... etc. etc.

Some people would say "low standards" but I say "I don't nit-pick." It's all relative ;)
 
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Well I mean bugs bother everyone, but I don't see them as a console port issue. Tons of PC exclusives have bugs. Mods were never my thing… GFWL does not annoy me much because I only play singleplayer… etc. etc.

Some people would say "low standards" but I say "I don't nit-pick." It's all relative ;)

So things like: not seeing the full tech potential, less than idea controls, streamlined sequels, and games only having auto-save, don't bother you at all?
 
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DoctorNarrative and people like him are the reason every game is the exact same over the shoulder 3rd person action 'hit X to win' shitfest with awful controls, day 1 DLC and rushed halfassed storylines. The worst part about people like that is they seem PROUD to watch everyone else suffer because they love eating shit as long as its fed to them fast and efficiently. :(
 
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I personally feel Microsoft is screwing themselves over with their console involvement (and for a long time with big losses). One of the prime motivation for getting a PC and doing hardware upgrades were games. Now the PC has stagnated as the primary gaming platform and most people use it exclusively for browsing the web. That makes it very easy for people to drop the pc and just get a cheap linux-based notebook. As a result, innovation is pushed onto the web where Microsoft have very little control of the market. The way things are going, I think Microsoft is heading for tough times when it comes controlling the consumer platform. Even in industry I see every new application targeting the web-interface. The only thing left is the Office-suite. When that's gone they'll be in deep trouble indeed.

In regard to games, how was Risen on xbox? I thought it turned out just fine for the pc atleast.
 
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DoctorNarrative and people like him are the reason every game is the exact same over the shoulder 3rd person action 'hit X to win' shitfest with awful controls, day 1 DLC and rushed halfassed storylines. The worst part about people like that is they seem PROUD to watch everyone else suffer because they love eating shit as long as its fed to them fast and efficiently. :(

No need for insults. Just because DN isn't as bothered by certain console aspects doesn't mean he supports them.
 
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The biggest thing hurting the PC, while somewhat related to consoles, is more related to the PC as a platform(and it's inner workings)…

Consider the gulf in raw computational power between current gen PCs(sporting a high-end Fermi or Northern islands GPU) and current gen consoles(PS3 = nvidia 7 series Xbox360 = ati R500/R600 - roughly)… Honestly, 5x the raw computational power is not even a stretch, more like 10x or more. Yet are PC games visibly superior, at least to such an extent?

The root issue is a lack of HW standardization -> the net result is an extra layer between HW + SW called the API(aka DX11). Which adds huge overhead… Imagine if devs could program directly to the HW!?! We'd have a freaking PC gaming/gfx renaissance(assuming they have the necessary time to play with and master the low level coding).

Though I will say that cutting out the API and moving towards a direct to HW approach would have it's drawbacks - without HW standardization devs would have to work really hard to optimize/program their games for vastly different gpu uarchs(fermi vs northern islands and even older gen stuff) worse yet smaller devs might lack the necessary capital/know how...

Consoles aren't hurting PC, the API(directx) is hurting PC... If the proles had their shiny we wouldn't even have this discussion. Bypassing the API and programming directly would allow PC to truly distinguish itself and set it miles ahead of the competition...

funny-pictures-cat-pays-attention-to-shiny-thing.jpg
 
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No need for insults. Just because DN isn't as bothered by certain console aspects doesn't mean he supports them.

Indeed.

I despise dumbing-down, I just don't see it as a console-specific issue. WoW is probably the simplest and most streamlined "RPG" I have ever played and is a PC exclusive. Hell, going all the way back to Diablo you can see Blizzard focusing on pure click-click-reward gameplay without much depth, and Blizzard is a "PC savior" according to many.

I see streamlining and simplification as an attempt to broaden an audience, not as a hardware-specific thing. It has nothing to do with console hardware specifically, other than the obvious fact they are more popular. That people act like all console gamers are retarded and need win-buttons offends me, there are many hard and complex console classics.

As for interfaces and technical limitations that stuff can be annoying from time to time but it doesn't bother me personally enough to get upset about it. There were times with the older consoles where it bothered me like Invisible War's small little areas and frequent load screens, but now-a-days it's mostly minor stuff I don't let myself get bothered by. For instance Borderlands' menu screens were terrible on the PC, but at the end of the day how much did that effect me? Not much at all, really.
 
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I don't think the author is claiming that streamlining or dumbing-down is console specific. Just that certain aspects in some games have obviously been altered to accommodate console development.

I think his point is more about those things being done for the purpose of saving time and money, rather than being necessary.

Of course from a company point of view, saving time and money *is* necessary.
 
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Of course from a company point of view, saving time and money *is* necessary.

Hahaha... yeah.

I read the article a couple days ago and don't really remember the specific language from the "dumbing down" section. If it was more about hardware limits than mainstreaming then okay, I can see that. Still I'm not sure it's something I get really worked up about to be honest.

The kind of streamlining I hate is much more gameplay-centered and universal, having little or nothing to do with hardware. Stuff like big fucking neon arrows telling you where to go.
 
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Okay, here is my input:

1) The glitchy port. Yep, I can understand how that one can be annoying. I must admit that since at least 2/3 of the games I buy today are for the consoles, I most likely have already played and completed a game in this category on either the PS3 or Xbox360, so I rarely have a problem with this issue myself.

2) Dumbed down sequels. Hmm, not sure about this one. The article uses DA2 as an example but I'm one of the few regulars here at the Watch who actually like DA2. Besides, Origins was in production for more than 4 years whereas DA2 took less than 1½ years ... with less than a third of the production time I would say that anyone expecting DA2 to be on par with DA:O must be a little touched in the head ;)

3) Tech. This one I disagree with. One of the main reasons I got a console in the first place was because I was sick and tired of always having upgrade my PC every 6 months in order to be able to play the new games. The added eye-candy to games like FEAR or Crysis didn't really make them better games, but not having the necessary horsepower to run the games smoothly, thus turning them into slideshows sure as heck had a negative effect to the enjoyment of the games (yes, that was the case for me and no I don't have any fond memories of either game).

Another issue with the pursuit of the cutting edge, one that is too often neglected, is that every time you increase something like graphics you also significantly increase the development time on all graphical elements in the game. Take God of War 3 (PS3) vs. God of War 2 (PS2): according to the developers, what took 4-5 days to model for GoW2 took 4-5 weeks to model for GoW3. That's 5 times longer (not counting weekends) for each and every single object you see in the game. And that is just graphics ...

4) Lousy interfaces/controls. Well, any Gothics fans have disqualified themselves from commenting on this one. :biggrin:

5) There is no mod. Partially true. Many PC games don't have mods anyway and many of those who do, are of no interest to me. Other than the occasional texture/skin pack here and there, I don't really think that I've used mods outside of Morrowind, Oblivion and Severance: Blade of Darkness. I would miss the mods in games where they could make a real difference (which quite honestly isn't that many).

6) The great divide. As darkling has already demonstrated this issue is much more about how PC elitist are making asses of themselves than about how consoles are hurting PC gaming. The whole stone throwing thing and glass houses seem rather fitting here.

7) Auto-save. Not a big deal for me ... when the auto-save is done right. When it is not, like in Demon Souls (I know it is deliberate), it can drive me absolutely bonkers having to repeat unnecessary sections over and over because there is no save point right before I'm insta-killed. However, to be fair: the vast majority of the current gen games have learned from past mistakes about save-points and it is rare to come across a really bad one.

8) Game for Windows. Not that big a deal for me. Only cross platform games falls under the GFW label (and thus the GFW restrictions) so they've been designed with an Xbox in mind all along, so I don't think the end result would be much different whether the GFW label is slapped on the box or not. Of course I'm used to the whole Xbox LIVE thing, so I'm probably a little biased.

9) Hype/PR. That's a bit naive. I know what he's getting at and I do agree that it would be nice if everyone would tell the truth, be nice to your fellow man, world peace and all that, but let's get real. Nobody expects commercials to tell the truth so why should game developers/publishers?

10) Kinecting the dots. I don't get this one. How are new inventions for the consoles hurting the PC? Is he being jealous?

11) Non-existent post release support. To me, this issue seems to be more about reaping what you sow than about consoles affecting PC gaming. All the hacks, mods (not the good kind) and piracy issues in PC multiplayer games have made it an extremely unprofitable business to attempt to invest time and effort into post release support. On the consoles it is a LOT harder to cheat and if someone manages it anyway, Microsoft have to ability to ban not only the gamertag (which would be horrible for many of the achievement hunters) but also the actual Xbox console (meaning they would need to buy a new xbox to go online again).

12) Dead-icated servers. Abso-friggin-lutely. This is by far the most important of all the 12 points and I agree 100%. However, he is not correct when he states that Bad Company 2 has remedied this issue. There are indeed dedicated servers in BC2 but only hosted servers. You can't make a LAN game. If you want your own server to on with whomever you choose, you have to rent one from an official provider and that "solution" is not much better than no dedicated servers at all. I have real high hopes of Brink but if they don't have proper dedicated servers and the possibility of LAN play, then it is dead to me :(
 
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2) Dumbed down sequels. Hmm, not sure about this one. The article uses DA2 as an example but I'm one of the few regulars here at the Watch who actually like DA2. Besides, Origins was in production for more than 4 years whereas DA2 took less than 1½ years … with less than a third of the production time I would say that anyone expecting DA2 to be on par with DA:O must be a little touched in the head ;)

Why should we care about their dev time issues? Players should expect a good game up to Bioware's standards for their $60, we don't care about their inter-office politics and budgets.

3) Tech. This one I disagree with. One of the main reasons I got a console in the first place was because I was sick and tired of always having upgrade my PC every 6 months in order to be able to play the new games.

I'm surprised to see even a part-time PC gamer repeat that kind of silly fallacy.
 
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Why should we care about their dev time issues? Players should expect a good game up to Bioware's standards for their $60, we don't care about their inter-office politics and budgets.

That's one thing I can agree with you about DA2. It had over 2 years of development it was started before origins was finished but that still isn't a good excuse for the final product. I beat the game and have no intention of playing it again.

I'm surprised to see even a part-time PC gamer repeat that kind of silly fallacy.

I can agree with him a little due to cutting back my budget. But hey remember thanks to consoles we dont have to update every 6 months anymore. That's a plus for me. Now I only have to upgrade every 2 years or so. I can save money then by my parts I need instead of dipping into my must have funds for daily life.
 
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I'm not sure if we should blame consoles or console gamers. I'm a console gamer and I loathe the checkpoint save system, and linear restrictive levels, and streamlining ect. But the hardware doesn't dictate that, and I don't think the gamers dictate that. I was a PC gamer first but I switched to a 360 for ecomomic reasons, not being able to afford my PCs upkeep. It doesn't mean I want simpler games, and I can't be the only one.

The guy mentioned Dragon Age Origins, well the console version was as brilliant as the PC version (albeit with controller limitations). But the way he talks you'd think Origins was a PC exclusive and Dragon Age 2 was shittified because it came out on both the PC and consoles. As if it had to be shittified in order for it work on a console... and that's just complete crap.

So personally I blame lazy developers and greedy publishers. I think most gamers, whatever their hardware of choice will respond favourably to intelligent, quality entertainment if it's provided to them.
 
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Why should we care about their dev time issues? Players should expect a good game up to Bioware's standards for their $60, we don't care about their inter-office politics and budgets.
You shouldn't if you don't want to. However, expecting the "impossible" will set you up for disappointment after disappointment. A "reality check" now and again goes a long way to not only keep you expectations at a realistic level but also to understand WHY the result is as it is.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned DA2 DOES deliver.

I'm surprised to see even a part-time PC gamer repeat that kind of silly fallacy.
It is not a fallacy. The whole argument of point number 3 is about pushing the limits of hardware/technology and in order to do that you need state of the art equipment. Hence the need to upgrade every time something new comes along. I wasn't talking about being able to run a game at medium/low settings on an aging PC.
 
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I was browsing through a gaming magazine … The very first thing that springs to my mind is how dark and gritty the PC games are (except the rather casual games and puzzle games of any kind) and how colourful console games are - except those for the xbox, I suspect.

And I have this impressen ANY TIME I browse through a gaming magazine …
 
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