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November 12th, 2017, 04:28
I think some hear are too big of PB fans to be objective. I only read the one review but it was hardly just about difficulty.

They mention poor combat due to laggy unresponsive controls, bugs and glitches. They still gave it a 7/10 good rating. Seems fair.

Games like dark souls, nioh and bloodborne all got good reviews from mainstream reviewers. I doubt the scores are just about difficulty.

I think it has more to due with PB’s games usually having mediocre combat and are unpolished at release. They also seem to have a style that appeals to a more niche crowd.

I’m a fan of PB’s but I’m not blind so I can see their faults or while others might be Luke warm to them.
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November 12th, 2017, 05:35
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I think some hear are too big of PB fans to be objective. I only read the one review but it was hardly just about difficulty.

They mention poor combat due to laggy unresponsive controls, bugs and glitches. They still gave it a 7/10 good rating. Seems fair.

Games like dark souls, nioh and bloodborne all got good reviews from mainstream reviewers. I doubt the scores are just about difficulty.

I think it has more to due with PB’s games usually having mediocre combat and are unpolished at release. They also seem to have a style that appeals to a more niche crowd.

I’m a fan of PB’s but I’m not blind so I can see their faults or while others might be Luke warm to them.
You assume that yet have you played it?

I personally don't find combat "clunky" at all, nor laggy or unresponsive (that is ludicrous IMHO.) Dark Souls is "clunky" in the same way, i.e. slower, more calculated movement with "weight" to it. That is by design.

Bugs and glitches? Sure, that's fine, but let's keep that in perspective. ELEX is over 3 times the size of Skyrim and didn't have a single game-breaking bug at launch. The only bugs I've experienced in 115 hours have been minor graphical glitches, a couple AI glitches and, well, that's about it. I think some people need to think back about release days for other large open-world RPGs, and then realize ELEX is 3 times (or more) the size of those.

So relatively speaking, it has no bugs at all.

As for PB faults, sure, their presentation isn't that great, voice acting could be better, animations, yada yada yada. So this is where I again point people to the fact the game was made by 29 people on a shoestring budget.

Taking that into consideration, what they continue to do with their games is equivalent to performing miracles.

This is why I gave up rating games a long time ago. How can you compare a passion project made by 29 people and pennies in comparison to something like a Bethesda or CDPR megalithic corporation production? Those games have 10 times or MORE the budget, and in some cases 10 times the personnel working on them.

I disagree with your premise because there is evidence of the contrary. IGN, one of the biggest outlets for gaming reviews you can find, has an official review where the reviewer himself was playing the game wrong. Flat out wrong. You're not supposed to fight 2 hour battles that take 1000s of hits, that is absurd. The reviewer did not understand the game mechanics, which brings me full circle to my idea for better in-game education about the game's workings.

I like ELEX and think it's an excellent total package, but hey, YMMV.

So this is where you respond I'm a fanboy and not being objective. Cheerio.
Last edited by Fluent; November 12th, 2017 at 05:51.
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November 12th, 2017, 07:26
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I think some hear are too big of PB fans to be objective. I only read the one review but it was hardly just about difficulty.

They mention poor combat due to laggy unresponsive controls, bugs and glitches. They still gave it a 7/10 good rating. Seems fair.
What reviewer was that and what version did they review? I ask because, in 150+ hours, I never experienced any sort of lag or unresponsiveness in the controls.

I've also never seen that claimed in any of the reviews I've read. Was that review for the console version perhaps?

As far as bugs/glitches go, they were few and far between even before the patch. The game was quite polished for a large open-world game at release, and I say that without the fanboy goggles that Fluent seems to wear.
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November 12th, 2017, 07:38
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
You assume that yet have you played it?

I personally don't find combat "clunky" at all, nor laggy or unresponsive (that is ludicrous IMHO.) Dark Souls is "clunky" in the same way, i.e. slower, more calculated movement with "weight" to it. That is by design.

Bugs and glitches? Sure, that's fine, but let's keep that in perspective. ELEX is over 3 times the size of Skyrim and didn't have a single game-breaking bug at launch. The only bugs I've experienced in 115 hours have been minor graphical glitches, a couple AI glitches and, well, that's about it. I think some people need to think back about release days for other large open-world RPGs, and then realize ELEX is 3 times (or more) the size of those.

So relatively speaking, it has no bugs at all.

As for PB faults, sure, their presentation isn't that great, voice acting could be better, animations, yada yada yada. So this is where I again point people to the fact the game was made by 29 people on a shoestring budget.

Taking that into consideration, what they continue to do with their games is equivalent to performing miracles.

This is why I gave up rating games a long time ago. How can you compare a passion project made by 29 people and pennies in comparison to something like a Bethesda or CDPR megalithic corporation production? Those games have 10 times or MORE the budget, and in some cases 10 times the personnel working on them.

I disagree with your premise because there is evidence of the contrary. IGN, one of the biggest outlets for gaming reviews you can find, has an official review where the reviewer himself was playing the game wrong. Flat out wrong. You're not supposed to fight 2 hour battles that take 1000s of hits, that is absurd. The reviewer did not understand the game mechanics, which brings me full circle to my idea for better in-game education about the game's workings.

I like ELEX and think it's an excellent total package, but hey, YMMV.

So this is where you respond I'm a fanboy and not being objective. Cheerio.
“Combats great, no bugs at all, any problems should be dismissed because it was made by 29 people, PB perform miracles, there’s nothing wrong with the game , people are just playing it wrong.”

Nope, looks like your being as objective as always about a game you like. Don’t have the energy or desire to go back and forth with you. Glad you love the game.


Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
What reviewer was that and what version did they review? I ask because, in 150+ hours, I never experienced any sort of lag or unresponsiveness in the controls.

I've also never seen that claimed in any of the reviews I've read. Was that review for the console version perhaps?

As far as bugs/glitches go, they were few and far between even before the patch. The game was quite polished for a large open-world game at release, and I say that without the fanboy goggles that Fluent seems to wear.
Select button review linked to this thread. Might be console version he’s playing with a controller.
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November 12th, 2017, 07:42
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
gameSelect button review linked to this thread. Might be console version he’s playing with a controller.
Yeah, he played the PS4 version.
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November 12th, 2017, 09:17
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
“Combats great, no bugs at all, any problems should be dismissed because it was made by 29 people, PB perform miracles, there’s nothing wrong with the game , people are just playing it wrong.”

Nope, looks like your being as objective as always about a game you like. Don’t have the energy or desire to go back and forth with you. Glad you love the game.
Gee, @JDR13 agrees and says exactly the same thing I just did. Huh.

People are actually playing it wrong, btw. I gave concrete evidence. IGN's review, go look at it. They are no small outfit. They have over 9 million subscribers.

In their review, they mention fighting enemies that take 2 hours and 1000+ hits. Yes, that is playing the game wrong. And sadly, there are many reviews that cite similar things that show a clear lack of understanding of how to actually play the game. Which is also why I recommend PB adds better in-game education material (see previous posts.)

A handcrafted open-world RPG 3 times the size of Skyrim yet 3 times more interesting () made by 29 people is a miracle, IMO. If you don't think it is then please show me similar games made by 29 people.

Spoiler, they don't exist.

If you also read my post I cited several things that can be improved, and dozens more if you're interested.
Last edited by Fluent; November 12th, 2017 at 10:42.
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November 12th, 2017, 12:32
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
I can only remember two presentations or so where anyone from THQ Nordic was even present. Everything else was all Björn himself, soloing the marketing "campaign" or sometimes with his wife Jenny at his side but she gave birth to a baby recently so that's why we haven't seen her much since Gamescom .
Björn always gave me the impression that he didn’t want to be there during the Gamescom presentations. He came across as being quite bored and probably wondering when the torment of explaining his game to a bunch of not that interested so-called journalists, would come to an end.
He is not alone in that though, I experience the same with other developers as well, especially on the last day. But not with all, some of the smaller developers are quite enthusiastic and as far as larger ones go, I suspect Swen Vince drinks a lot of Red Bull
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November 12th, 2017, 12:42
Swen Vincke can talk faster than his shadow

***

I have the feeling that Piranha Bytes don't care much about the international audience. They just rely on their big German fan-base and don't reach out to international game sites to get more publicity.
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November 12th, 2017, 13:38
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Swen Vincke can talk faster than his shadow

***

I have the feeling that Piranha Bytes don't care much about the international audience. They just rely on their big German fan-base and don't reach out to international game sites to get more publicity.
Makes sense based on the historical international reception
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November 12th, 2017, 22:55
Well, this international gaming site has always done well for PB; we've always been a big supporter!!
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November 12th, 2017, 23:37
I'm sort of a PB fanboy in that I've bought and played all their games and, in fact, joined RPGwatch because of the G2 forum activity. Elex is a very good game in most respects and pretty bug free. In many ways a "fixed" G3. However it's been a disappointment to me because of the mixed post-ap setting; I just can't get into it - too much like Fallout which I really dislike. But that is just my personal problem, I don't get the complaints about combat and pacing, I don't see any notable technical issues with it.
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November 13th, 2017, 00:39
Originally Posted by fragonard View Post
I'm sort of a PB fanboy in that I've bought and played all their games and, in fact, joined RPGwatch because of the G2 forum activity. Elex is a very good game in most respects and pretty bug free. In many ways a "fixed" G3. However it's been a disappointment to me because of the mixed post-ap setting; I just can't get into it - too much like Fallout which I really dislike. But that is just my personal problem, I don't get the complaints about combat and pacing, I don't see any notable technical issues with it.
Understandable there. Going into the game I thought it was going to be a very weird setting that might not work well. I'll just add that the setting grew on me tremendously once I started learning the lore of the world, talking to important faction members and just exploring. ELEX is a fascinating substance, and it's cool to learn about how all the different factions have different beliefs about using it. The companions flesh this out more, too, and give you interesting stories as well.

Still probably won't beat Gothic 3 medieval fantasy for me, though.

Just as a side note I thought I'd mention, the game is also large enough to naturally support all the biomes, so it doesn't feel cramped in the slightest, and the transition from area to area is logical and well done. That was also a cause for concern going in and they seemed to have pulled it off very well. I personally think the scale of ELEX should set a new bar in this type of open-world, i.e. the giant sandbox/exploration world a la Bethesda.

The jetpack is a must going forward, too, but that's another topic.

I would offer a criticism, and this may be engine-related, but long distance scale looks…odd. Maybe it's me, but while the structures themselves are really huge when you are exploring them, i.e. large bridges, hotel ruins, or the Domed City, etc., from a distance they don't look as large and imposing as they should. It seems to be an issue with the view in the entire game. Not sure how to explain it but maybe I am missing something there.
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November 13th, 2017, 18:22
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Well, this international gaming site has always done well for PB; we've always been a big supporter!!
Yes, I think we may be the only site to have been pro-PB (sometimes to the point of craziness).

However, we have 500 active members. We should not be their only focus
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November 13th, 2017, 23:01
RPGWatch is what turned me on to Gothic in the first place. I remember reading old posts by @JDR13 and a few others in some old threads, noticing that everyone praised Gothic as one of the best PC RPG series, etc.. Being a console gamer mostly but loving RPGs I was interested and checked it out eventually.

The rest is history. Primarily a PC RPG gamer now.
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November 14th, 2017, 14:01
I haven't had the time to really delve into this.

I must say that my initial impression is that the power curve is counterproductive compared to most PB games.

I don't remember having to spend THAT long being absolutely worthless in their past games.

Granted, I play on "Hard" - but I don't think that changes anything about the frustration of about experiencing zero progress for the first 10-15 hours. Something is off about that, to my mind.

Other than that, though - I think the game seems pretty good. The skill descriptions are for shit, however, which is making it very hard to decide where to invest.

The jury is out on this one.

I'll wait for a patch or two - and then I'll start over.
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November 14th, 2017, 14:56
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
I haven't had the time to really delve into this.

I must say that my initial impression is that the power curve is counterproductive compared to most PB games.

I don't remember having to spend THAT long being absolutely worthless in their past games.

Granted, I play on "Hard" - but I don't think that changes anything about the frustration of about experiencing zero progress for the first 10-15 hours. Something is off about that, to my mind.

Other than that, though - I think the game seems pretty good. The skill descriptions are for shit, however, which is making it very hard to decide where to invest.

The jury is out on this one.

I'll wait for a patch or two - and then I'll start over.
I don't believe the power curve is all that different from say Risen 1 but it is harder than Risen 3. I could kill *some* monsters (which didn't have skull next to them) with the starter rusty axe right at the beginning. I even manged to kill group of raptors by picking them one at a time with the said axe without using companion.

You can get level 4 or 5 with 1 or 2 hours of play and that is what 40 or 50 attribute points. I put *all* them into strength and bought a decent weapon and things were much easier after that. So as long as you don't spread your self too thin at the start, you are easily making progress within 2/3 hours tops. Obviously I play on normal …

And welcome back
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November 14th, 2017, 15:01
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
I don't believe the power curve is all that different from say Risen 1 but it is harder than Risen 3. I could kill some monsters with the starter rusty axe right at the beginning. I even manged to kill group of raptors by picking them one at a time with the said axe without using companion.

You can get level 4 or 5 with 1 or 2 hours of play and that is what 40 or 50 attribute points. I put *all* them into strength and bought a decent weapon and things were much easier after that. So as long as you don't spread your self too thin at the start, you are easily making progress within 2/3 hours tops. Obviously I play on normal …

And welcome back
Thank you.

Well, in Risen - I could actually kill the majority of the creatures I met in the earlier stages of the game (like those on the beach where you begin the game). They were challenging, sure, but it could be done.

Same with Gothic. The game was hard - and you died a lot of the time, but the early creatures were killable with a low-level character once you learned the rhythm of combat.

While I'm sure if you go out of your way to focus on melee and pick up a great melee weapon - it's not impossible.

The thing is, though, that I kinda want to focus on ranged weapons.

It seems part of the design that the first 10-20 hours are supposed to be about evading and dodging 99% of every single enemy you meet.

To me, that's not great design and it's not how I remember PB games.

Again, it could be the "Hard" setting - but in that case the "Hard" setting is crap

We'll see when I get back to it. I haven't been quite myself lately, so maybe I'm being too harsh.
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November 14th, 2017, 15:59
It definitely has a steeper curve. I even mention it in my review. There are two main differences:
1) It takes longer to grow in power
2) Shadowbeasts, Orcs and such exist in the world and can be encountered at low levels, but the player is never tasked with killing them at that point. The quests that involve such creatures are only handed out later on.

I don't mind it, but I can see how it can appear frustrating or confusing, especially since Risen 3 was very easy by PBs standards. In fact, they seem to have listened to the feedback and gone completely the other way.

Edit: I should probably point out that, when replaying it, it doesn't appear as difficult, as there are ways of avoiding most of the early challenges (get a companion, join a faction, know which quests to do etc).
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November 14th, 2017, 16:01
Yeah, they took community feedback from R3 and went hard in that direction. I love it but it takes some getting used to to learn how to survive and thrive in Magalan.
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November 14th, 2017, 16:03
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
Yeah, they took community feedback from R3 and went hard in that direction. I love it but it takes some getting used to to learn how to survive and thrive in Magalan.
Indeed. The good thing about that is that when progress kicks in, it really kicks in. Very satisfying.
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