General News - Thinking outside the Loot Box

HiddenX · October 16, 2017

RPGFool spotted an article about the current game creator - consumer relationship on Gamesindustry:

Thinking outside the loot box

Business model innovation is necessary despite the friction it causes - but the industry needs to recognise when it's overstepping a line

When future historians of videogames come to write their accounts of the 2010s, I sincerely hope that they don't forget to mention the creativity, artistry and innovation that has blossomed in this decade - but I already know that won't be the main focus of the chapter.

If the present decade of the industry's development is ultimately remembered for anything at all, it will, sadly, be the often ugly tug of war between game creators and consumers over how to make game development pay for itself. An optimistic perspective might speak of the flurry of innovation in business models that we've seen in recent years; a more realistic one would point to the frequency with which the industry has ended up at loggerheads with its own consumers over various business tactics.

The standard narrative that's become embedded in the consciousness of many consumers - especially, unfortunately, those whose primary source of information is YouTube, where this narrative is absolutely prevalent - is that game companies are grasping and avaricious, and spend more time sitting around plotting new ways to gouge money from set-upon consumers than they do actually making new videogames.

[...]

Figuring out how to make enough money from games to meet their accelerating development budgets is undoubtedly tricky; it's a delicate and ongoing negotiation between game creators and consumers, and each side steps on the other's toes or elbows their ribs every now and then. It's important, however, that the industry not become hardened to the complaints or concerns of its own consumers.

The background noise of people who irrationally despise the commercial aspects of an industry they claim to otherwise love should not deafen game companies to genuine warning sounds that suggest a mark is being overstepped.

More information.

RPGFool · October 16, 2017

Was particularly surprised to read about "kompu gacha", (a similar Japanese monetization scheme where gamers 'earned' a bonus item for completing a full set of items randomly received from purchases - that got the Japanese authorities to step in and regulate mobile game practices in Japan)

There's also a UK Petition asking for Govt regulation of Loot boxes that already has nearly 12,000 signatures.

Seems like the biggest problem is minors -- if game publishers don't self regulate on this, at least some Govt's are probably going to step in…

__

joxer · October 16, 2017

Bad example of a country IMO - any kind of gambling is forbidden in Japan (only pachinko machines are tolerated, you may check why on wikipedia).

Or perhaps not a bad example? I mean when was the last time you saw lootboxes in a game made in Japan?

RPGFool · October 16, 2017

joxer said:
Bad example of a country IMO - any kind of gambling is forbidden in Japan (only pachinko machines are tolerated, you may check why on wikipedia).

Or perhaps not a bad example? I mean when was the last time you saw lootboxes in a game made in Japan?

Fair enough.

Apparently the "kompu gacha" stuff happened in 2012 and changed practices of game industry since that time...

IMO its a can of worms -- particularly with the involvement of minors -- as the charges begin to pile up on parents' charge cards over time... Ticking time bomb...

IMO...

Ripper · October 16, 2017

I actually think that the games industry is ripe for a co-operative profit-sharing model of business, something like the John Lewis partnership model in the UK. The problem is the high barrier of entry, which tends to demand traditional investors. But, if that problem could be solved, I think a games dev co-op, with a declared intent to respect their customers and avoid micro-transactions and cynical DLC, could really make a splash.

lackblogger · October 16, 2017

The country with the bad rep for gambling video games is Korea, not Japan. You regularly hear people refer to crap MMOs with the term "its just a korean gambling/grind game".

Moorkh · October 17, 2017

The author here makes a point but comes across to me as a consumer rather as one gangster warning his fellow gangsters not to overdo it with their robbing lest the marshal show up.
I really resent my reservations to "innovative monetizing schemes" being dismissed as irrational ranting when it seems obvious that cleverly "motivating" customers to stealthily spend more money on a game than they consciously would is closer related to conning than to marketing.
All I want is an honest price tag on my games so I can decide if that's worth it for me or not, instead of being hassled with in-game peddling of overpriced junk that either should have been in the game in the first place or actually detracts from my experience.
Old-fashioned, I know...

Wisdom · October 17, 2017

Business model innovation is necessary despite the friction it causes

I reject the premise.
The premise that it is necessary is already flawed.

You have product, you tell me your selling price for product, I either give you $ or not depending on its worth to me.

Worked from the dawn of time to today, why get fancy with it?

Grok give you 2 rocks and 1 dead chipmunk for big stick? Grok trade?

Damian · October 17, 2017

Loot boxes are the end result of the majority of people not paying full price for games when game development costs are still increasing. Like the cost of Mass Effect Andromeda was 100 million dollars, imagine what it costs for a real AAA game with high scores! People are waiting till games cost 10 dollars to buy it, so publishers get about $5 out of it when all is said and done per game in retail and 7 dollars from steam(steam takes 30%). But lets assume they get all 10 dollars for simplicity's sake. If everyone did that it takes 10 million units sold to just break even let alone make a profit.

So what devs did was add dlc at $15 each and $40 for a season pass(forgetting the dumb op item dlcs), in the end it averages out that people only buy 1 dlc, so the average game gets $25 so thats a little better so now it takes 4 million sales to break even. But publishers didnt want to have to sell 4 million to break even, it's still too much risk.

So devs had the idea of free dlc and let people pay real money for in-game currency but all items could be gained with enough playtime. That made a shit ton of money for the publisher of GTA Online. GTA Online was making enough money but the publishers still werent satisfied and made the devs make the cost of items absurd so people had to buy in-game currency to get items.

Then came loot boxes for cosmetics in the MOBA called DOTA. Then some publisher saw that, put 2 and 2 together and thought instead of people paying real money for a guaranteed item, they could make people use real money to gamble instead increasing the money needed to get the item. And now here we are.

Publishers are definitely overstepping the mark, I think ideally, the original GTA Online model is the best model. What do you think?

posfan12 · October 17, 2017

I'm waiting for Trump to speak on the topic whenever he next tries to change the subject from something more important.

Damian · October 17, 2017

posfan12 said:
I'm waiting for Trump to speak on the topic whenever he next tries to change the subject from something more important.

No need to make it political.

Stingray · October 17, 2017

Creativity, artistry, and innovation (in the games industry) has "blossomed" in this decade? :roll:

Ripper · October 17, 2017

Damian said:
No need to make it political.

TBH, I think there's very little political talk going on right now, and for good reason. We're just not in an era of sensible political discussion, but just trying to function in a bizarre realm where the future of the world makes as much sense as Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

Damian · October 17, 2017

Ripper said:
TBH, I think there's very little political talk going on right now, and for good reason. We're just not in an era of sensible political discussion, but just trying to function in a bizarre realm where the future of the world makes as much sense as Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

That is because politics is no longer about facts and logic but narratives and hyperbole. But I will stop discussing that now.

Ripper · October 17, 2017

Damian said:
That is because politics is no longer about facts and logic but narratives and hyperbole. But I will stop discussing that now.

That kind of depends what you mean. If one abandons the idea of the pursuit of objective truth, through the imperfect rigour of journalism, then one guarantees the absolutism of a tyrant.

Damian · October 17, 2017

Ripper said:
That kind of depends what you mean. If one abandons the idea of the pursuit of objective truth, through the imperfect rigour of journalism, then one guarantees the absolutism of a tyrant.

That's the inevitable conclusion of all countries at the moment, right?

ChienAboyeur · October 17, 2017

The article shows how distant a concern gameplay has become.

while Star Wars Battlefront 2 is using it to distribute items that alter the balance of its multiplayer matches, essentially making itself into a "pay-to-win" game with a random number generator strapped to its back.

Facing a small group of players on coms who work together within the opposite team is a bigger shift in balance in matches.
It is somehow acquired that joining a multiplayer match with random teammates does not open the path to winning ways. You join a game to play, not to win.

For a start, there's the fact that the system behind them is opaque. While even most mobile game firms have begun informing players of the odds of receiving a card, character or item from any given transaction with a random element, loot boxes rarely reveal this kind of information - and there's little sign that they have any internal system to guarantee that players who want a specific item don't have to roll the dice eternally without getting it

Gameplay of said products is self contained: there is no cause to want a specific item.

Better point, it is opposed to card games

(which trading card games, for example, generally do, weighting the distribution of cards in packs to help rather than hinder the building of complete sets)

Which are usually not self contained gameplay products. The metagame evolves fast enough to issue a demand for new and specific cards.
It is no mystery hearthstone is such a huge commercial success.

The article writes it is legitimate to pinpoint lootboxes (that contain gameplaywise useless items) and praises card games that restrict the access to necessary items gameplaywise.

Alrik Fassbauer · October 17, 2017

Damian said:
Loot boxes are the end result of the majority of people not paying full price for games when game development costs are still increasing.

Cynically speaking : Not paying full price with Steam as THE DRM ? How is that possible ?

To me, personally, it's rather the result of "the shareholders - and that's partially me, the CEO - want more money".

Damian · October 17, 2017

Alrik Fassbauer said:
Cynically speaking : Not paying full price with Steam as THE DRM ? How is that possible ?

To me, personally, it's rather the result of "the shareholders - and that's partially me, the CEO - want more money".

Steam also reduces the price very quickly. Within 3 months most games drop to half price.

Moorkh · October 17, 2017

Damian said:
Steam also reduces the price very quickly. Within 3 months most games drop to half price.

I don't think that's Valve's doing. That's publishers offering their product at lower prices in order to broaden their market. The fact that this in turn creates an expectation of future lowered prices among their own core market and, thus, a vicious cycle, apparently doesn't stop any of them (except Clive, of course...).

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