RPGWatch Feature - Pathfinder: Kingmaker Review

Kingdom management would have been great if they cut 1/3 of all pointless options like different problems and opportunities that provide only stat bonuses as well as way too many buildings providing nothing except wasted developer man hours.
That plus kingdom management screen that loads at least 2x faster would have worked wonders.

Originally Posted by purpleblob
I hope you all enjoy the review (and the game!!!), any feedbacks are appreciated.

A big thank you to @Myrthos for editing and putting up this massive review, and also to @Morrandir and @Maylander for the peer-review

Also, thanks to my previous peer-reviewers, @forgottenlor and @Silver

Anytime!

As for the kingdom management: I completely agree that it's mediocre, even though nobody has truly nailed such a feature yet. The concept is excellent, but it's obviously very hard to pull off, or we would have seen more good examples by now. I'm hoping we'll see that in time though, as it could be very interesting.

Thanks for the extensive review.

The wife and me and another couple are actually working our way through a Pathfinder campaign at the moment (Rise of the Runelords), so I've been itching to dive into this and see how faithful it is to the ruleset. However, I think I'll keep it in the oven a little longer until it reaches a "complete" version.

Purp's review is excellent and I hope she'll review other games in future. I love this game and think that while they might not have pulled everything off perfectly, the fact that they have tried to be innovative and creative is to be applauded and supported!! This and Larian's D:OS 2 are the two best games I've played in years!!

Hey Purpleblob,

You really wrote an excellent review! Nice work!

I have a few doubts:

a) I've read about the lagging the game seems to have. Does the loading screens really take a lot to finish loading? What's your PC spec, if you don't mind to tell us?

b) About the kingdom management: I believe it is a main part of the game and can't be fully skipped, am I right? Then, in what measure the kingdom management system distracts us from the adventurers party missions? If there are hidden timers in both parts of the game, wouldn't we feel like we're doing things in a hurry, in order to avoid such timers from triggering, thus not fully appreciating the game? How both parts interconnect each other? Let's say we're about to fight some ogres in a cave, then a message just pops up saying "My lord, your kingdom needs your attention now. We're suffering problem X!" Is that so?

Thank you !

Originally Posted by Carnifex
I honestly don't recall any lag when I played the game, and I remember quite a few people being vocal about load times, but I didn't have issues there either. Hopefully I'm not in for a nasty surprise when I return to the game!!

I vaguely recall my game lagging for a short period of time, but it sort of resolved itself… maybe hotfix or something addressed it?

Originally Posted by akarthis
No, i did not try to contact them. I thought that i should wait for all the patching and then contact them,if the problem insists.
The lag started at the beginning of the second act and it's during gameplay. I have no problems with loading times.. First act was smooth. I checked some forums and realized other people had the exact same problem. Up until now, no solution.

I'll wait for some more patching and then contact them. Thanks for your replies guys.

I think it might be worthwhile to report the lag so at least Owlcats are aware of it. I'm sure more common issues will be addressed faster.

Originally Posted by Capt. Huggy Face
Nice job, Purple…in responding to the comments, too. You're like a pro PR person for RPG reviews.

Just sharing my love for this game with people I care for

Originally Posted by Corwin
Purp's review is excellent and I hope she'll review other games in future. I love this game and think that while they might not have pulled everything off perfectly, the fact that they have tried to be innovative and creative is to be applauded and supported!! This and Larian's D:OS 2 are the two best games I've played in years!!

Thank you, Corwin! Any game I enjoy in future, I will share my thought with fellow Watchers Glad you are loving this game too!

Originally Posted by henriquejr
Hey Purpleblob,

You really wrote an excellent review! Nice work!

Thank you Really enjoyed writing this review.

a) I've read about the lagging the game seems to have. Does the loading screens really take a lot to finish loading? What's your PC spec, if you don't mind to tell us?

As I mentioned in above post, I recall my game lagging for a short while, but it didn't last long. I have no idea what fixed it though - I certainly didn't play around with any settings.

I have no idea what my PC spec is, so my husband answered this part for me:
WIN 7 x64
i5-2400 3.10ghz
16gb DDR3 RAM
GTX 1070 8gbs

My game run on HDD and I don't have problem with loading time - but then I could be more patient than others in this regard?

b) About the kingdom management: I believe it is a main part of the game and can't be fully skipped, am I right? Then, in what measure the kingdom management system distracts us from the adventurers party missions? If there are hidden timers in both parts of the game, wouldn't we feel like we're doing things in a hurry, in order to avoid such timers from triggering, thus not fully appreciating the game? How both parts interconnect each other? Let's say we're about to fight some ogres in a cave, then a message just pops up saying "My lord, your kingdom needs your attention now. We're suffering problem X!" Is that so?

From my understanding the kingdom management can't be fully skipped. You at least have to deal with kingdom quests/missions that are interlinked to the main story even if you use auto or invincible kingdom option.

I never played with auto kingdom management but from my understanding it literally manages kingdom aspect on its own - except for few instances like when they require your audience in the throne room. I heard a lot of complaints this isn't working as intended but don't know whether it is fixed now.

Invincible kingdom means even when your kingdom unrest reaches below crumbling, the game does not end - but if you don't address the story related objective, it will result in game over.

I'd say turning the kingdom management to easy or lower difficulty would be best. As I mentioned in the review, kingdom missions must be addressed before the month is over (or the missions will expire), so it will be wise to visit your kingdom around 25th-27th of each month, and assign advisors to deal with "problems" at least. You can deal with the kingdom quests that require your audience then as well.

Some quests will have more urgent tone (these are linked to the main story or companion quests) e.g. Your companion is furious and demands your audience (urgent) vs your advisor is awaiting for your audience (not urgent) - in this case, I recommend visiting your throne room as soon as you are able. These will usually result in your kingdom stats taking hit if you don't respond quick enough. Just a note, "ancient curse" timers are a bit misleading - I recommend that you head back to your capital when you have about 28 days left till the timer expires because that's when the curse hit your kingdom stats.

I don't remember many kingdom quests with hidden timer associated (only a few that are linked to the main story should). One I can think of is a bit spoiler-ific so I will use the spoiler tag:



I hope this answers your questions It's rather difficult to explain about kingdom system to someone who hasn't been exposed to it.

It's certainly nice to see purple being passionate about something, after rejecting so many classics

VentureBeat posted their list of 2018's top RPGs.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker made their list under saved by patches.

I’m conflicted about this game. It’s geared right at me. It’s an almost 1-to-1 translation of the Pathfinder: Kingmaker adventure path for the tabletop RPG (which is an adaptation of Dungeons & Dragons’ 3.5 Edition), bringing with it all its options and subclasses for characters. It has turn-based combat, and you can find all sorts of points for adventure on its map. But it’s a tad sluggish at times, and as our Rowan Kaiser noted, it’s hurt by the lack of a Dungeon Master to guide the proceedings. It was also riddled with bugs and other issues — for some time after launch, my Inquisitor (a priest class) couldn’t regain their divine spells. Many of those problems have been fixed with patches. It’s a much better game now, but it still isn’t quite up to the critical hit standard.

Originally Posted by purpleblob
I hope this answers your questions It's rather difficult to explain about kingdom system to someone who hasn't been exposed to it.

Thank you for your time writing the reivew and answering our questions here!

Pathfinder: Kingmaker was one of the games I've bought in this Xmas season and I inted to give it a chance, especially because its rules are based on D&D 3.5 edition. I played D&D A LOT, since ADnD 2nd Edition, going to DnD 3/3.5 Ed, fully skipping 4th Ed (I didn't even care to read its books), and again playing 5th Ed. The pícture of Sarenith's character sheet you took… all those stats are very well-known to me: STR, DEX, CON, Armor Class, Saving Throws based on Fortitude, Reflex and Will, Flat-footed AC… aaaah, it makes me want tio play it….

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
VentureBeat posted their list of 2018's top RPGs.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker made their list under saved by patches.

Turn based combat? I guess we can ignore this "review" site as well since it seems to be filled by morons.

Anyone who turns Kingdom Management to Auto is missing a large part of the fun of the game. Be a baron/king! Rule your subjects with an iron fist! Or a soft hand! Make decisions that impact your barony and how events play out! Enjoy the change of pace and innovation rather than the "same old thing" we get in CRPGs time and time again! Have fun!!

Originally Posted by henriquejr
Thank you for your time writing the reivew and answering our questions here!

Pathfinder: Kingmaker was one of the games I've bought in this Xmas season and I inted to give it a chance, especially because its rules are based on D&D 3.5 edition. I played D&D A LOT, since ADnD 2nd Edition, going to DnD 3/3.5 Ed, fully skipping 4th Ed (I didn't even care to read its books), and again playing 5th Ed. The pícture of Sarenith's character sheet you took… all those stats are very well-known to me: STR, DEX, CON, Armor Class, Saving Throws based on Fortitude, Reflex and Will, Flat-footed AC… aaaah, it makes me want tio play it….

I'd say dive in, henriquejr ! Once you establish routine for the kingdom management it really isn't that bothersome. Who knows, you might actually enjoy it more than you think you would - I certainly did

Plus, there is no kingdom management part in chapter 1 start playing it and see how you like it.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
It's certainly nice to see purple being passionate about something, after rejecting so many classics

I have very high taste

Originally Posted by Archangel
Turn based combat? I guess we can ignore this "review" site as well since it seems to be filled by morons.

I swear you die hard fans are never pleased.

Edit: Yes it's combat was RTwP not Turn-Based they made a small mistake.

It made their top list of 2018 RPGs.

Thanks for the great review @purpleblob. I'm playing the game right now, and am sad to hear it ends so poorly. I'm on part 3 after 30+ hours. I don't like how the kingdom management is implemented. I don't like waiting around for events to happen. I think having kingdom events themselves fine, and I think being given choices about how to manage one's kingdom also interesting. I know the system is somewhat similar to Crusader Kings, but it doesn't mesh well in my opinion the rest of the game, which is excellent. That will probably cost it my game of the year vote to Pillars 2, even though I like the combat and character building in Kingmaker better. If the end is as bad as you say, it may even fall to 3rd place in my year's voting-

Originally Posted by forgottenlor
Thanks for the great review @purpleblob. I'm playing the game right now, and am sad to hear it ends so poorly. I'm on part 3 after 30+ hours. I don't like how the kingdom management is implemented. I don't like waiting around for events to happen. I think having kingdom events themselves fine, and I think being given choices about how to manage one's kingdom also interesting. I know the system is somewhat similar to Crusader Kings, but it doesn't mesh well in my opinion the rest of the game, which is excellent. That will probably cost it my game of the year vote to Pillars 2, even though I like the combat and character building in Kingmaker better. If the end is as bad as you say, it may even fall to 3rd place in my year's voting-

Sad to hear you aren't enjoying the kingdom management part - but I can understand it won't be everyone's cup of tea. I somehow ended up enjoying the kingdom part more than I thought I would

I think another thing is that the adventure part is so excellent, the kingdom management part in comparison feel even more mediocre. It would have benefited Owlcat Games more if they have chosen to turn another Pathfinder module without kingdom system into a cRPG - bit too ambitious for their first project!

All in all though, I still enjoyed Kingmaker immensely and very happy to support Owlcat Games. Hopefully, Kingmaker will be enough financial success for Owlcats to work on another Pathfinder game in near future.

Nice review! I enjoy the kingdom management a lot myself (minus the never ending loading screens of course). It is fun to run your own kingdom in a fantasy world while also getting to be an explorer and adventurer. Pretty much a dream come true for me.

I finally have reached chapter 4 or the 4th curse and just digging in. Hopefully most of things with the later chapters will be smoother now after the patches - so started up again.

The game is HUGE and so much fun stuff in it. I have to say the attention to detail and the shear amount of CC and options and paths is mind-boggling. I have no idea how they kept track of it all. But it is a ton of fun. Maybe I will have to bump this up to runner up for GOTY or maybe even GOTY. Won't know till I finish and see how the ending holds up since your review was more reserved there … and until I have finished the whole game I can't make a complete judgement.

Some things I have loved so far:



Plus so many of the companion quests so far. Could go on but its those little things that I enjoy so much. I do play on easy though as too much combat wears me out. I have it on a custom setting that gives a few things a nice challenge and risk but doesn't slog the game down with endless battles.

I am finishing playing with my Sylvan Sorcerer I decided and then will do a harder, more involved, play through with my Tiefling Ranger - who will be very different from my high charisma, diplomatic, violence avoiding Sorcerer.

I'm just a little disappointed to see people not enjoying the kingdom management so much. It's really not hard to do, you just have to use your time wisely - you're not always stuck waiting for events or anything. Go out, adventure, have fun, and come back and take care of business at the moment. It becomes second nature once you've played a bunch (I have 500 hours on Steam and this is my 2nd run). In my first run I botched kingdom management bad because I thought I needed to stay at the kingdom at all times and felt afraid to adventure. That's not the case at all though, you can explore the entire map and still have fun doing kingdom management. But I digress. Just was hoping to see more enthused by it because it's something new in a CRPG that is this deep and adds another layer of interest to the game. Have a very deep and complex party-based CRPG and also a deep kingdom sim, it's a very good combination IMO.

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark
Nice review! I enjoy the kingdom management a lot myself (minus the never ending loading screens of course). It is fun to run your own kingdom in a fantasy world while also getting to be an explorer and adventurer. Pretty much a dream come true for me.

I finally have reached chapter 4 or the 4th curse and just digging in. Hopefully most of things with the later chapters will be smoother now after the patches - so started up again.

The game is HUGE and so much fun stuff in it. I have to say the attention to detail and the shear amount of CC and options and paths is mind-boggling. I have no idea how they kept track of it all. But it is a ton of fun. Maybe I will have to bump this up runner up for GOTY or maybe even GOTY. Won't know till I finish and see how the ending holds up since your review was more reserved there.

Some things I have loved so far:

Spoiler

When you kill the massive ownbear for curse 3 and later it becomes a rug on the floor of the tavern - that was so awesome.

Nok-Nok and the goblins where you can can suggest Amari could be the wife to the drunken hill giant. The dialogue there was hilarious!

The riddle game with the fey Host was highly enjoyable and amusing. The kobold with "DRAGON" answers all the time.

How your alignment changes the kingdom, what can be built there, what decisions you can make, and so on. Your alignment really matters in the sense that the game recognizes it.

Plus so many of the companion quests so far. Could go on but its those little things that I enjoy so much. I do play on easy though as too much combat wears me out. I have it on a custom setting that gives a few things a nice challenge and risk but doesn't slog the game down with endless battles.

I am finishing playing with my Sylvan Sorcerer I decided and then will do a harder, more involved, play through with my Tiefling Ranger - who will be very different from my high charisma, diplomatic, violence avoiding Sorcerer.

Awesome post wolf! I enjoyed all those things too. I hope you try a harder, Challenging setting run of the game. It's very rewarding and fun once you know the systems well and can make good characters (without min-maxing, but just making smarter choices) and handling the kingdom better. My 2nd run is on Challenging and I've enjoyed every minute of it. Glad to see someone else loving the game. Cheers bud!