Skyrim CRPG-Meter for Skyrim

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
No stats? This game has more PC stats than probably any other game in history. There is so much data that PS3's are having some sort of tech issue with save games on long playthroughs.

Or were you referring solely to STR, DEX, etc.?
Yes, as in traditional RPG systems we do NOT consider HP, etc. to technically be statistics as they're generally derived or partially derived values based upon numerous factors typically includeding the actual statistics, as you pointed out: STR/DEX/INT/WIS/CHA/CON or what have you.

The only thing remotely RPG like is their minimal retention of a further reduced set of "skills" which really have very little affect on the game especially as compared to earlier games(DF & MW).

They're just continuing their dumbing down process as apparently their new fans aren't bright enough to comprehend more complex systems or IOW anything other than clickity clickity click.
 
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@DeepO

Thank you for the input. I'll supplement the STORY category with these gradings in future:

Rating:
No: 0 Points:
- only one questline

Ultra-light: 1 point:
- more than one questline, there are independent from each other

Light: 2 points:
- questlines are based on others

Medium: 3 points:
- quests are branching (tree structure)

More: 4 points:
- questlines are interfering with other questlines (network structure)

Heavy: 5 points:
- some questlines exclude other questlines -> you need more than one walkthrough to see all

I think 3 for Skyrim in STORY is still fair.
 
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Although they are certainly helpful tools for defining our characters, traditional attributes like STR, DEX, etc., do not directly equate to "role playing game."

In the 70s and 80s, developers saw a way to translate D&D math to video games and we have had these particular conventions in most videogame RPGs since that time.

But the way we "play a role" in pen and paper games is through actions, by making the choices we feel our character would make, going where we feel our character would choose to go, talking with any of an infinite number of NPCs in the world, etc. The story develops naturally out of the improv between the player(s) and the GM, often with the GM frantically adapting his pre-planned adventure on the fly to accomodate player choices. This is the essence of the game, not STR, DEX, INT, etc.

At least this is true for the groups I've played PnP games with over the past few decades. I know there are others who approach PnP more like a tabletop wargame battle simulator, with much more linear gameplay, in which case the attributes might be more important than freedom of player choice.

Obviously videogames are never going to come close to the infinite degree of choice offered in pen and paper games, but IMO, the more freedom of choice, the more NPCs with unique content, the more sidequests, layers of activities and different ways to progress, etc., the closer it comes to that infinitely open world of pen and paper games. Skyrim's massively detailed sandbox with thousands of NPCs, 400+ quests, six joinable factions (two of which are in conflict with one another), 550 unique locations, etc., comes much closer to approximating the sandbox play of pen and paper games than other games I have played. (with the possible exception of New Vegas)

As far the stats go, thousands upon thousands of tiny details about the PC are tracked, certainly much more than any of the games that are more linear in nature such as Witcher 2, etc., and more than Beth's previous open world RPGs. If I had to horse trade with the devs, I would gladly give up Acrobatics and Speed for the nine new stats tracking your crime status in each Hold, or the hundreds of stats tracking your reputation with every group of NPCs in the world, etc.

EDIT: @HiddenX I like the direction you are going with the story category.
 
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Although they are certainly helpful tools for defining our characters, traditional attributes like STR, DEX, etc., do not directly equate to "role playing game."

In the 70s and 80s, developers saw a way to translate D&D math to video games and we have had these particular conventions in most videogame RPGs since that time.

But the way we "play a role" in pen and paper games is through actions, by making the choices we feel our character would make, going where we feel our character would choose to go, talking with any of an infinite number of NPCs in the world, etc. The story develops naturally out of the improv between the player(s) and the GM, often with the GM frantically adapting his pre-planned adventure on the fly to accomodate player choices. This is the essence of the game, not STR, DEX, INT, etc.

But unless you are playing a statless game, the actions and abilities that your character can take, a PURELY DICTATED BY STATS.
At least this is true for the groups I've played PnP games with over the past few decades. I know there are others who approach PnP more like a tabletop war game battle simulator, with much more linear gameplay, in which case the attributes might be more important than freedom of player choice.
Again EVEN THE MOST NARRATIVELY FOCUSED GROUP I've played with still wouldn't let me dick around with explosives when I didn't even have the rudimentary chemestry skill or computers skills to supplement that chemestry skill.

And this was a game, where the GM basically let you go, hey can I do this, and she agreed if she did, and you character did that with no dice roll.
Obviously videogames are never going to come close to the infinite degree of choice offered in pen and paper games, but IMO, the more freedom of choice, the more NPCs with unique content, the more sidequests, layers of activities and different ways to progress, etc., the closer it comes to that infinitely open world of pen and paper games. Skyrim's massively detailed sandbox with thousands of NPCs, 400+ quests, six joinable factions (two of which are in conflict with one another), 550 unique locations, etc., comes much closer to approximating the sandbox play of pen and paper games than other games I have played. (with the possible exception of New Vegas)
Except, as NV proved side quests can be done infinitely better. And if you do the 2 factions that are in conflict, guess what, THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME QUESTS, JUST FROM THE OTHER SIDE.
As far the stats go, thousands upon thousands of tiny details about the PC are tracked, certainly much more than any of the games that are more linear in nature such as Witcher 2, etc., and more than Beth's previous open world RPGs. If I had to horse trade with the devs, I would gladly give up Acrobatics and Speed for the nine new stats tracking your crime status in each Hold, or the hundreds of stats tracking your reputation with every group of NPCs in the world, etc.
Daggerfall, broseph, over 20 factions, more sidequests than you can shake a stick at, dozens of statistics, the best character creation system I've seen outside of a PnP, cities you could get lost in, dungeons you could get lost in, 9 factions in conflict with each other, a crime system beyond HEY YOU STOLE SOMETHING OR KILLED SOMETHING OR YEAH THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT. Bethesda has fallen so far from what they once were.
EDIT: @HiddenX I like the direction you are going with the story category.
 
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It is not so important for me how the stats-math-model in a crpg is named or build, call it stats, skills, perks, traits, attributes, characteristics …

It is important that

1) you can build unique complex interesting characters (parties) with it
2) the game queries the stats in dialogues, quests, story, access to locations … so that they have a high impact on the game
3) different stats are leading to different walktroughs -> high replay value with another character
 
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It is not so important for me how the stats-math-model in a crpg is named or build, call it stats, skills, perks, traits, attributes, characteristics …

It is important that

1) you can build unique complex interesting characters (parties) with it
Not really, Mages are pants on head simplified, with no spell creation mechanic that made the elder scrolls unique in the first place. Stealth is unsatisfying with there being only one real way to any power, and that being the mehrunes razor and the stealth perk that doubles the crit strike rating of weapons. Combat is a slog, amounting to fuck all interesting, and one shot unfair kills on high difficulties, resulting in gameplay that relies on tricking pathfinding more than actual player character or player skill.

2) the game queries the stats in dialogues, quests, story, access to locations … so that they have a high impact on the game
Barring lockpicking, this never comes up. There's fuck all for stat checks anywhere beyond lock picking, and even then if you are good at the lock picking minigame you can hax every lock but plot doors.
3) different stats are leading to different walktroughs -> high replay value with another character
I will admit, that different stats lead to different styles of play. But that's just basics of game design, if I'm playing tribes, and am playing a light all day, then switch to heavy, of course it's going to play differently. The main problem is the game doesn't feel correct, it doesn't feel visceral, the core combat, what you're going to do 40-50 percent of the time, doesn't feel good enough. It's just spam clicking, or slowly sneaking up behind a guy and watching his body tumble to the ground and you are yanked from first person into a free camera to watch teh AWERSOME ANIMETATONS. Companions are so weak they typically die in 2 hits from anything larger than a mudcrab on harder difficulties. Summons aren't much better, and the only time a sneak attack is going to do more damage than someone with a hammer and heavy armor just normal attacking with an equivalent amount of combat perks as you have stealth perks, is if you follow the route I indicated above. And then the game becomes too easy. Resistances max out at 80% so it's impossible to become immune to a damage type. So that eliminates that aspect of power gaming. And even with dragon scale, all my points other than the smithing ones invested in light armor and a set of equipment designed to resist magic, to the point where I had 80+ in listed resists, the mages would still oneshot me if I got too close, and didn't jigger with their pathfinding and terribad AI.

It's just a terrible game overall. It's a bad RPG, it's a BAD GAME. But OH IT'S SO FREE, IT'S SO WONDERFUL, AND SO PRETTY, AND YOU JUST NEED TO GET OUT OF THE MINDSET THAT IT'S A GAME AND LIVE THE EXPERIENCE. And people who ask me to do that, are retarded, pants on head retarded, it's a fucking game, I'm going to judge it by how I judge all games. Is it buggy, yes, or NO? Is it competently plotted, YES, OR NO? Does the core gameplay beyond HIKING and looking at vistas, satisfy the standard of what similar games in the action genre provide, YES, OR NO?

If you answered yes to the first one, and no to the next 2, it's a TERRIBLE game.

If I wanted to look at vista's I'd get in my car, and drive to Placer, It's a seven hour drive, but the vista's there would be some of the prettiest in the world. And I'd actually get to experience the bitter cold, and winding mountain roads.

If I wanted to laugh at horribly easy to discern bugs, I'd play daikatana, and if I wanted to play a shitty action game, I'd play god of war, because even that system, as clunky as it is, IS BETTER than the system in Skyrim.
 
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@Roll-A-Dice

Many of your points are valid and true, but why are you getting so angry about it ?
Skyrim is not the perfect 100% game many game-magazines and "professional gaming sites" make us want to believe. It has some flaws and some aspects are very well done.
I agree that there's a lot to improve, but that doesn't make Skyrim automatically a "terrible game".
The CRPG-Meter says 3.92 out of 5 that's a 78% rating if CRPG Heavy is your personal preference. That's not that bad if you take into consideration that Bethesda is aiming for casual gamers and not for the hardcore crpg-veterans-crowd.
 
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@Roll-A-Dice

Many of your points are valid and true, but why are you getting so angry about it ?
Skyrim is not the perfect 100% game many game-magazines and "professional gaming sites" make us want to believe. It has some flaws and some aspects are very well done.
I agree that there's a lot to improve, but that doesn't make Skyrim automatically a "terrible game".
The CRPG-Meter says 3.92 out of 5 that's a 78% rating if CRPG Heavy is your personal preference. That's not that bad if you take into consideration that Bethesda is aiming for casual gamers and not for the hardcore crpg-veterans-crowd.

Because I remember when Bethesda used to be good and not focused on the casual market. I remember when selling a modest amount of copies was considered a success. When games didn't have to debut at redonkulous numbers. And I just get so angry at the constant strive for more money, and the creative sapping that's come from it. Daggerfall was generic as all hell, but it still did fantasy and story better Oblivion and Skyrim.

It's just over the years, I've played so many better games, and I've watched the quality of level design, of gameplay design, of story design, of everything just slowly slip, and the more I think about it, the more I get angry. At the fuckers who want games to be considered an art form, but haven't grasped the fact that to be art, you need subtlety, skill, and message.

Even modern art, it has message, and a fair amount of subtlety and skill. You look at games in the past like Planescape Torment, or Morrowind, and the game oozed all three of those, the world was exquisitely crafted, there's message and symbolism everywhere, and subtlety in bounds. Even the architecture conveyed a message in Morrowind. As I've pointed out in this thread or another.

In a game like Skyrim, I see everyone praising, oh it's such a good game. But it lacks elements that have been at the absolute core of the series. Character customization, dress up by combining different armor pieces, the ability to be an absolute power gamer if you want an easy game, or the ability to completely gimp your character if you want to have a hard time. Difficulty was scaled in the Elder Scrolls, scaled by by player knowledge as well as by a difficulty meter. The attributes system with each stat affecting large amounts of things. Random chance. Things that were pulled from PnP games. I don't think in my 28 or so hours of play, I ever encountered a disease

The fact that they are a company that has betrayed their origins, is what makes me so angry.

Every other company left, is either new, or has been doing it so long, that we've gotten dead to it. Or has been doing it since the origin of the company.

Bethesda has been doing it since oblivion which was only what 6 years ago.

The fact that them and Bioware are the only ones left producing RPGs despite the fact that they are the most casual of RPG developers. Bioware's likely going into the shithole after TOR goes bust, and then we'll be left with Bethesda as the lone old guard of RPG development. Interplay's gone bust, several times over now. Origins been gone for who knows how long, Sir Tech, the majority of people nowadays haven't even HEARD of Sir Tech. Betheda's really the only people we got left, and that's what makes me angry. Bioware always marketed to the lowest common denominator, Bethesda, didn't used to be that way, they were one of the few heralds of, of, it's hard to describe, Politics making high fantasy. Games with heavy politically oriented storylines, but the storylines going towards making High Fantasy adventures more believable.

Now what's the plot been reduced to, BOWSER(Alduin) IS ASSAULTING THE MUSHROOM KINGDOM(Skyrim), FIGHT OFF HIS CLONES(Dragons) BEFORE BEATING HIM IN A COLOSSAL BOSS FIGHT OF EPIC PROPORTIONS AT THE EDGE OF THE UNIVERSE MARIO. Every SINGLE other BETHESDA game, EVEN OBLIVION ITSELF, had a political sideplot go into making its high fantasy gameplay a reality. This one really is Bowser assaulting the mushroom kingdom, and that's about as much as it makes me care. It's just another generic fantasy slogfest now. It almost makes me even more angry when I think about all the other plots they could have done. Did they have to set it after the novels? Why not have those just be future sci-fi, and the games exist in their own worlds.

Why not set it in Summerset, where the factions are the empire, the elf faction in this game,

You know, this is another point, the game didn't even make me care about the politics it did show, I can't even recall the name of the political faction of high elves. I don't have to google to find out the names of the morrowind factions, despite the fact that I haven't played that in 2 years,

I've just stopped playing Skyrim last week. I literally care less about this game, than I do about the Star Wars prequels because I can remember the trade federation guys are nimoidians.

Or how about the major races of Star Trek, a show I haven't even watched since college 10 years ago, Klingons, Romulans, Volcans, Borg, Q, Human, Andorian, Cardassian. I remember more about Vulcan BREEDING habits than I do about a game I played less than a week ago(Once every few years they go and psychicly attach themselves to someone generally another Vulcan, if they don't they die a horrible horrible death.)

Anyway, the elf faction in this game, it's like the, you know what I'm going to have to google this, be right back, Thalmor, utterly generic elf faction name is generic.

Anyway, the Thalmor, and the vampires, who are in a kind of cold war for supplies, it's 2 years after the last emperor and the elves are starting to question the divine right of the Nord/Imperial fuckwits. The vampires are starting to leverage their eternal control over the night. Anyway, you are sent there by the empire as usual and are shortly there after arrested by the Thalmor, sent to prison for a bit, and given indoctrination, and then the vampires bust you out. You are thus torn between the original loyalty to the empire, the thalmor indoctrination(They were completely courteous and didn't really imprison you much beyond the whole being locked in a room for a few days/potentially till you died or fessed up to your entire life story(HINT: YOU COULD WORK THE QUESTION SYSTEM FROM DAGGERFALL INTO HERE.),) and the debt you owe to the vampires for them saving you. More over, there's a looming threat in that a psijic went crazy and the last time that happened the Mages Guild got formed and a new god was shortly thereafter formed.

Side factions would by Psijics(focusing first on the philosophy of the order, and the lessons and symbolism thereof, before then going into a political game with your fellow apprentices and eventually the eternal heads of the psijic order itself), the fighters guild(focusing on originally just general contracts, before starting you into an indiana jones style adventure.) the imperial church(Focusing on mostly what the Imperial Church focused on in morrowind, before heading into a certain area of lore that bethesda really need to focus on more, which is the godhood.), and the thieves guild(Focusing on what the thieves guild focused on in Daggerfall, with an increasing series of ever more complex heists ending with you eventually stealing the crown jewels of the empire, the main treasures of the thalmor, and robbing the entire vampire nation blind.) with the vampires also having the assassin's guild, the blood blade legion(basically being a less religious dark brotherhood. Ending with you getting told to kill every leader of the other factions, unnoticed) The vampires wouldn't care if you were a vampire or not, only that you were useful., and the only time you'd need to become a vampire is if you want to be the leader of their faction.

Look at that I've just outlined a plot that would by around 3 times more political, with a main threat that makes sense in the confines of the mythos, and not too many obvious betrayals to lore.

When I can spend 3 minutes and ponder and write those up. I get angry that the writers there probably haven't even perused summaries of the events that happened in the previous games. Hell, setting it 200 years in the future is probably an attempt to get rid of any need to reference events of previous games. The entire game just strikes me as the low hanging fruit. And that's what gets me angry, when I'm entirely apathetic about a game, because it's so bland and stale and wreaking of marketing making most of decisions, I GET ANGRY AS FUCK, because I can recall when as a company they didn't go for the low hanging fruit. When Ken Rolsten was there, to balance Todd's DUDE, IT WILL BE AWESOME(Nuke in the first 4 hours of gameplay, mininuke launcher, dragon in the first 5 minutes, no stats, Patrick Stewart as the emprah, whatsisface with the awesome voice that makes me question all sense of morals and want to skull rape my dad(in game of course), etc.) With general good design, good world design, good art direction, etc.

Hlallu, Redoran, Dres, Indoril, Telvanni, and Dagoth are Morrowinds great houses, did not even have to google those.
 
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@Roll-A-Dice

I can feel with you - many modern companies seek new groups of buyers and think watering down rpg-elements is the best way to do this (ArcaniA, Dragon Age 2, Dungeon Siege …).

I'm an old fan of Daggerfall, Redguard and Battlespire. I remember being very disappointed by Morrowind in 2002 because the dungeons were too small for me and I was invincible at level 13 or so.
In original Oblivion the auto-leveling killed the complete rpg-feeling of getting better.
Many things have been fixed by good modders since then. I hope Skyrim will get a similar treatment.
 
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I'm still curious which game these guys play that they couldn't pull apart like this. I've been playng games since way back in the bards tale and early ultima games, and I have yet to find a game I think could not have been improved.

Calling Skyrim a terrible game is laughable at best, it doesn't actually speak on the game itself but on personal agendas and weird tirades. I'm shocked so many of us have so much fun with such a terrible game:rolleyes:
 
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I think I was beginning to understand Dice's perspective a bit - correct me if I'm wrong, but you were enamored with Daggerfall and Morrowind and when you play Skyrim you see beyond what it is, something along the lines of that perfect game in your mind that it could have been. Am I way off here? (I'm reminded of Yukio Mishima's excellent novel, Kinkaku-ji)

However, I'm puzzled by all your comments about combat and the action-y side of things. On the one hand you want to hearken back to a more skill-based game and on the other hand you want the twitch combat to have hit detection on a par with God of War and fighting games? Perhaps Amalur is the game you want to keep an eye on, as they seem to be doing the God of War style combat.

As for stealth, this is hands down the best implementation of stealth gameplay in any TES game I've ever played.

I've played 200 hours as a thief, about 110 hours as a 2H warrior and about 3-4 hours as a mage. In past TES games, I always played a Dunmer mage, or some sort of battlemage, mystic archer, etc. mage hybrid.

This is the first time that I'm having a lot of fun playing a pure warrior who uses absolutely no spells or enchanting, or a pure stealth character with no magic. The dagger backstabs, slow motion archery perks, etc., all of this is lots of fun to play and I'm amazed at how well balanced each of these playing styles seems to be. The devs must have gone through lots and lots of iterations in order to get this right.

Is it buggy, yes, or NO?
In the context of massive open world sandbox RPGs, absolutely not. It is one of the least buggy games of this genre ever released.

Is it competently plotted, YES, OR NO?
Yes, from what little of the main quest i have done in 350 hours, it is significantly more compelling than the main quest of many other games I've played. The Thieves Guild and Companions questlines are also more compelling and the NPCs are more lifelike. These factions feel much more believable, a group of individuals with their own goals and desires who have banded together for believable reasons, rather than some generic employment office ("I hear the Fighter's Guild is hiring") or some bizarre robin hood organization. I haven't completed the civil war quests or any of the DB or College of Winterhold questlines yet so I cannot comment on those.


Does the core gameplay beyond HIKING and looking at vistas, satisfy the standard of what similar games in the action RPG genre provide, YES, OR NO?
Absolutely!
 
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It's good to have some critics and some enthusiasts here - so readers of this thread can make their own picture of this game called Skyrim.
 
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CountChocula;1061118384In the context of massive open world sandbox RPGs said:
WRONG. This game has so many bugs, fuck journalists have had to make articles claiming that the BUGS AREN'T AN ISSUE BECAUSE BETHESDA MAKES THEM ENDEARING. The patches add in MORE BUGS. My first 20 minutes of Skyrim after the tutorial looked like this, hit a wolf, it dies and then lands on an oblique angles causing it to start to helicopter, walk into a cave, kill a spider by exploiting the fact that it can see ma if I'm 2 feet too high on the entry cave meshe, then turn around a corner and crash with a hex code that tracks to a memory overflow error. A non-buggy game that does not make, Oblivion was far less buggy, as was Morrowind. AI can not fight anything, and just up and dies at bad moments. Saves in longer games have bloat, because of incompetent people using the toolset. The game wreaks of unpolished design, with the first patch making dragons fly backwards, and adding in a whole host of other bugs.
Yes, from what little of the main quest i have done in 350 hours, it is significantly more compelling than the main quest of many other games I've played. The Thieves Guild and Companions questlines are also more compelling and the NPCs are more lifelike.
NOW THE MOVE THEIR ARMS AS THEY TALK SO LIFE LIKE!!!!!111!!!
These factions feel much more believable, a group of individuals with their own goals and desires who have banded together for believable reasons, rather than some generic employment office ("I hear the Fighter's Guild is hiring") or some bizarre robin hood organization. I haven't completed the civil war quests or any of the DB or College of Winterhold questlines yet so I cannot comment on those
The Thieves Guild is a mystic plot by nocturnal, and the Fighters Guild ends with everyone accepting that you are now the glorious leader of a faction that HASN'T HAD A LEADER in 900-1200 YEARS. The members of the thieves guild including their lieutenants didn't realize that the ENTIRE TREASURE HORDE is full of nothing. And their leader has been robbing them for the past 25 years. This paints the entire thieves guild as incompetent, moronic assholes, who are not true to life. All of the higher ups of the companions are werewolves something that is apparently illegal in Skyrim. And their main questline tries to make you feel bad about someone dying who at this point you've talked to around 3 times.


Absolutely!
You sir, are a know nothing shill, I've avoiding calling you an idiot throughout this argument, but with this, you have proven beyond a doubt that you are. Even Morrowind didn't hold up to this standard. The entire combat gameplay is unsatisfying to anyone who has even played a similar style combat system, say mount and blade.

Walking is more like floating, gliding along the floors.

Dungeons are straight hallways with around 2 exceptions. All of them have precisely 1 secret passage leading to a secondary exit in the rear or back to the front.

That does not make for satisfying gameplay. When combat is spam clicking and tricking the AI into being retarded.
 
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I didn't play Morrowind on the tech that was around when it was released, so I can't comment on bugginess for that game.

Oblivion, however, is a very unstable game. Even the vanilla version crashes frequently for many people, years after it was released. That's why there are all these mods like "Oblivion Crash Prevention System," etc.

Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas suffered from a crapload of serious bugs at release. I still enjoyed the games, but with FNV, for example, I frequently had to use console commands to extricate myself from terrain or to access loot that had fallen into the terrain.

I've played Skyrim around 350 hours at this point and here is my entire, exhaustive bug report:

1. some textures turn purple if you play a long session of many hours. this was fixed by Patch 1.3

2. 10-15 CTD's over this period. 0 CTD's after Patch 1.3 and the Steam update for LAA.

3. Aela did not recognize that I completed a particular quest. I used a console command to make it completed.

4. On 2 or 3 occasions, my follower did not switch to combat mode when being attacked. Haven't noticed this following any of the patches, no idea whether it was fixed or not.

5. 4 or 5 dragons that respawned in an area near a word wall did not give up their souls upon death. this seems like a bug to me, but perhaps it was intentional. hopefully this will be fixed, but it did not hinder my enjoyment of the game in the slightest.

6. some dragon corpses would float around in a strange way when you fast travel to a point where you previously killed a dragon. I haven't noticed this after Patch 1.3, no idea whether it was fixed, but honestly this did not detract at all from my enjoyment of the game.

7. extra Louis Letrush clones. It looked a bit silly but certainly didn't detract from my enjoyment

8. keybinding glitches. this was annoying, as I had to remap some keys with a workaround, but all my keybindings seem to be working just fine following patch 1.2

9. slight audio stutter near Meridia's beacon after completing her quest. no idea if this is a bug or not, but the sound of the beacon stutters slightly. Does not affect my enjoyment of the game.

That's it. Absolutely no other bugs or glitches.

As for whether the gameplay is enjoyable or not, this is not something you can debate to prove that a boring game is fun or a fun game is boring, etc. Every single person who played the game knows whether they enjoyed the gameplay or not.

You may have personally found the gameplay boring or unsatisfying. Nothing wrong with that.

I personally have been having more fun with this game than any other game I have played over the course of a few decades-long history of gaming.
 
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I didn't play Morrowind on the tech that was around when it was released, so I can't comment on bugginess for that game.

Oblivion, however, is a very unstable game. Even the vanilla version crashes frequently for many people, years after it was released. That's why there are all these mods like "Oblivion Crash Prevention System," etc.

Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas suffered from a crapload of serious bugs at release. I still enjoyed the games, but with FNV, for example, I frequently had to use console commands to extricate myself from terrain or to access loot that had fallen into the terrain.

I've played Skyrim around 350 hours at this point and here is my entire, exhaustive bug report:

1. some textures turn purple if you play a long session of many hours. this was fixed by Patch 1.3

2. 10-15 CTD's over this period. 0 CTD's after Patch 1.3 and the Steam update for LAA.

3. Aela did not recognize that I completed a particular quest. I used a console command to make it completed.

4. On 2 or 3 occasions, my follower did not switch to combat mode when being attacked. Haven't noticed this following any of the patches, no idea whether it was fixed or not.

5. 4 or 5 dragons that respawned in an area near a word wall did not give up their souls upon death. this seems like a bug to me, but perhaps it was intentional. hopefully this will be fixed, but it did not hinder my enjoyment of the game in the slightest.

6. some dragon corpses would float around in a strange way when you fast travel to a point where you previously killed a dragon. I haven't noticed this after Patch 1.3, no idea whether it was fixed, but honestly this did not detract at all from my enjoyment of the game.

7. extra Louis Letrush clones. It looked a bit silly but certainly didn't detract from my enjoyment

8. keybinding glitches. this was annoying, as I had to remap some keys with a workaround, but all my keybindings seem to be working just fine following patch 1.2

9. slight audio stutter near Meridia's beacon after completing her quest. no idea if this is a bug or not, but the sound of the beacon stutters slightly. Does not affect my enjoyment of the game.

That's it. Absolutely no other bugs or glitches.

As for whether the gameplay is enjoyable or not, this is not something you can debate to prove that a boring game is fun or a fun game is boring, etc. Every single person who played the game knows whether they enjoyed the gameplay or not.

You may have personally found the gameplay boring or unsatisfying. Nothing wrong with that.

I personally have been having more fun with this game than any other game I have played over the course of a few decades-long history of gaming.

Let's counter this with my bugs,

40 crashes in a 28 hour period, several of them causing full blue screens.

In ability to rebind certain keys, to the point where pressing certain keys would cause the action it was originally binded to, to come into effect along with the action I bound to it. Indicative of them only half coding in the ability to change key.

People randomly falling through the floor.

Purple texture all over the place after modest amounts of play time(4 hours), indicative of them not purging cell buffers nearly enough.

Having to purge the gates of Whiterun 3 times in a 28 hour span of nearly 30 Luis Letrush clones.

Luis Letrush showing up other places riding horses that clip through the ground by standing on top of them.

Dragons that if I hit them with spells after the died, IE say the died to the spell I sent just before I cast this one, would clip through the world or helicopter into the air.

Having to fight a combat with 6 dragons during the first fight with Alduin.

Followers running in and getting themselves killed by mages instantly.

Followers being unable to avoid traps. Even simple ones.

Being able to steal anything by putting buckets on peoples heads.

3 occasions where I had to console through a quest giver no accepting a quest. Including one with the golden claw quest.

Caves I can't walk too far into because the meshes in them crash my game.

Enemies that helicopter away after I hit them to the point they die.

After beating a dungeon boss getting stuck in the kill anim state for 5 minutes, before reloading and trying again, and then getting stuck in the kill anim state. This persisted the 7 times I tried it, before it finally ceased.

An attack by 3 backwards flying dragons after the first patch.

Getting stuck in the elder scroll cutscene twice before it worked correctly.

Being unable to go to the afterlife when I was supposed to, before reloading my game and trying again from the previous quest.

There's a lot more, but I have things to do today, and frankly you likely won't believe most of this.

To contrast, FONV in the 100 hours I invested in it crashed 3 times. And I got stuck on terrain twice. I experienced almost none of the bugs indicative of so many other peoples experiences.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
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Having to purge the gates of Whiterun 3 times in a 28 hour span of nearly 30 Luis Letrush clones.


Good lord! 30 of these guys? :lol:

Were you able to record this one? You might have a youtube hit on your hands.

In my case it was 2 and a half men (one of my Letrushes was apparently an amputee). Haven't seen this after the recent patches, but I have been playing my second playthrough so I have no idea whether this was fixed. Are they still there in your game?

EDIT: There was one additional bug I noticed that I forgot to mention above. During one of the Companions quests, you are supposed to travel together with 3 or 4 of your fellow Shield-Brothers to Ysgramor's tomb. Their pathing got a little off somewhere near Dawnstar and I noticed they seemed to be going in a very large circular path and we were never going to reach the tomb, so I just went on ahead by myself. This occurred post Patch 1.3.
 
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Man, he personally had all t hose bugs happen to him...that is an awful lot to endure. I never had any of those other then acouple crashes to desktop. Looks more like a list of everyones faults that has been reported around...
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
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Hey, I have the magical cloning Letrush's too in my game. There's 3 of them outside Whiterun and one of them is stuck in the ground so only his top half is showing. What the hell.... I do hope they fix that, it's not a big deal but it is annoying to see.
 
Looks more like a list of everyones faults that has been reported around…

Some people have experienced a lot more crashes than others, I suggest giving Dice the benefit of the doubt here.

If I had experienced as many problems, I'd probably have a chip on my shoulder about the game as well, so to some extent I can understand why he disliked the game so much.
 
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