Skyrim CRPG-Meter for Skyrim

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
An interesting side note, until I turned on subtitles, I was missing out on a lot of what people said. I'd just tune them out if I had heard their babble and was amazed at how much more some characters say than I ever thought.

A few examples, Alvor the blacksmith has a longish discussion with his daughter about the blacksmith trade. In another town, a character secretly teaches the children some magic skills in the evenings. Nazeem has several snide remarks to make about a number of people in the marketplace. Waiting around in several dungeons will sometimes trigger a couple of paragraphs worth of conversation between characters that are specific to that dungeon only.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
8,821
Oh yeah I always have subtitles on. If that option is available, it is the first thing I hit after turning off all sounds/music/effects. Much prefer to read my dialogue rather than have someone blathering in my ears about it. My ears are for pounding music for when I play, nothing like having some Korn or Tool blasting as you careen through dungeons!


-Carn
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
18,685
Location
Holly Hill, FL.
by comparison:

RPG Factors: Story, Character, NPC-Interaction, Gameworld, Manipulation, Combat

Drakensang:
3, 5, 4, 3.5, 4.5, 5
RPG Score:= 4.17 => CRPG heavy

The Witcher: 5, 3, 5, 3, 4, 3
RPG Score:= 3.83 => CRPG

Geneforge 4:
5, 4, 5, 3.5, 5, 3
RPG Score:= 4.25 => CRPG heavy

Gothic 3: 4, 3.5, 4.5, 5, 4, 2
RPG Score:= 3.8 => CRPG
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
19,710
Location
Germany
Hokeydoke, here we go go go.

Agree on your first point,

Kind of disagree on your second point, because the game encourages onmispecialization and doesn't force you to focus on anything to get into or advance in a guild. I would say it's more of a 3.

Trading is laughably easy to break, give your iron daggers a petty banish enchant, suddenly they are worth 2000 gold. But overall I agree with most of your other points. Though the NPCs aren't nearly reactive enough.

Disagree with your points on the gameworld, there aren't enough variances to truly give it a 5. 4 at the most, The appearances of monsters don't even make a whole lot of sense. I'd argue the only Bethesda game that manages a 5 is Morrowind.

Manipulation wise,

There are no teleports in this game.

There's crafting systems but not enough to pass muster as truly a 5 of 5 in crafting, you are set using strict ingredients for everything other than Alchemy. Smithing wise, you progress very linearly along the tree, and to advance in it, crafting an Iron dagger will give you as much experience as crafting a Daedric one. I'd argue a 3 bordering on a 4.

Enemy AI is run forward attack or if has ranged weapon fire and move away until he's in melee range then NEVER SWITCH BACK TO A BOW AGAIN. Other than that, yeah I mostly agree. 3.5 is a good spot for it.

Soundwise, they lack a lot of actual environmental sounds, and a lot of them feel like they were canned and muffled a bit.

Length I'd say is a 2(I completed all of the main questlines for the factions and all of the major daedric quests as well as the main questline in 28.3 hours) with a (5) as a secondary rating for those people who absolutely HAVE to see what every dungeon has in it.

So almost a flat 3.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
53
I have not visited every dungeon and my Steam time is very close to 200 hours.

proof

I have not rushed the game - I like to explore - but I'm not a slow gamer.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
19,710
Location
Germany
I hear this frequently, but why would anyone choose to become leader of every guild if they don't enjoy that?

Well, why don't we get rid of skills and everything entirely then and leave it up to the player to decide whether he wants to be a mage by restricting himself to casting spells only, or a warrior by only using weapons and so on and so forth. The very foundation of RPG demands restriction. One paths will close so another will open up.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
121
I have not visited every dungeon and my Steam time is very close to 200 hours.

proof

I have not rushed the game - I like to explore - but I'm not a slow gamer.

As I stated, I completed the game in less than 40 hours, that means by your logic it's a 2, with a 5 in perens to state that there's potential to take 150+ hours.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
53
With that arguement then a lot of the older games with speed runs likebaldurs gate 2 done in less then 2 hours. You don't judge length on those that choose to rush through something.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
5,749
Well, why don't we get rid of skills and everything entirely then and leave it up to the player to decide whether he wants to be a mage by restricting himself to casting spells only, or a warrior by only using weapons and so on and so forth. The very foundation of RPG demands restriction. One paths will close so another will open up.

I don't quite follow your line of reasoning. Without skills how would you measure progression in the areas of expertise you choose to develop?

I would agree that the more kinds of inter-faction conflict (Legion vs. Stormcloaks, Goodsprings Villagers vs. Powder Gangers, etc.) in a game, the merrier.

I'm also all for consequences to choices made along the way that might cut off certain content, such as the ability to join certain factions, or take on certain quests.

However, I'm currently having a great time roleplaying a warrior who believes magic, enchanting, sneaking around in the shadows, etc., is for cowards. This brute has zero interest in hanging out in a library poring over arcane tomes, and he will certainly never join any sort of college of mages, nor any sort of thieves guild.

I'm simply not feeling a huge loss of enjoyment solely because I'm aware as a player that it's technically possible to go and join the mage's guild.

What about folks who want to play a battle mage or JOAT character? Personally I have no interest in that at this time, but I see no reason why others shouldn't be able to play out a character who is both a warrior and a mage, or a thief/illusionist, etc.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
1,477
Location
Chocovania
I don't quite follow your line of reasoning. Without skills how would you measure progression in the areas of expertise you choose to develop?

I would agree that the more kinds of inter-faction conflict (Legion vs. Stormcloaks, Goodsprings Villagers vs. Powder Gangers, etc.) in a game, the merrier.

I'm also all for consequences to choices made along the way that might cut off certain content, such as the ability to join certain factions, or take on certain quests.

However, I'm currently having a great time roleplaying a warrior who believes magic, sneaking around in the shadows, etc., is for cowards. This brute has zero interest in hanging out in a library poring over arcane tomes, and he will certainly never join any sort of college of mages, nor any sort of thieves guild.

I'm simply not feeling a huge loss of enjoyment solely because I'm aware as a player that it's technically possible to go and join the mage's guild.

What about folks who want to play a battle mage or JOAT character? Personally I have no interest in that at this time, but I see no reason why others shouldn't be able to play out a character who is both a warrior and a mage, or a thief/illusionist, etc.

The greater tragedy is that, you're character who has no interest in books, could become the head of the mages guild by being led around by your ear being a sell sword. Hell all you've gotta do to get in is SHOUT REALLY LOUD IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
53
You have to cast a spell to gain entrance to the College. I don't think using a shout is an option.

If you've been to the grey beards you can ask if they can make an exception for the DOVAHKIIN, to which the person will ask if you can shout for them. Shout and you are now a mage you surly axe swinging nord with 100 mana.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
53
If you've been to the grey beards you can ask if they can make an exception for the DOVAHKIIN, to which the person will ask if you can shout for them. Shout and you are now a mage you surly axe swinging nord with 100 mana.

That does seem a bit excessive. I wasn't aware they granted the dragonborn an exception. I suppose the Thu'um is a form of magic, but I would not expect it to be one of the areas of study at the College of Winterhold.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
1,477
Location
Chocovania
That does seem a bit excessive. I wasn't aware they granted the dragonborn an exception. I suppose the Thu'um is a form of magic, but I would not expect it to be one of the areas of study at the College of Winterhold.

You could explain it in the fact that it is something mystical that they are interested in…I think you are wasting your time though, it seems that if you do bring up a point to counter one of the Skyrim is crap posts, they ignore it and change gears.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
5,749
I think you are wasting your time though, it seems that if you do bring up a point to counter one of the Skyrim is crap posts, they ignore it and change gears.

Certainly there is always room for improvement and there are lots of things I would also love to have seen added to enhance Skyrim - more choices with palpable consequences, survival/needs features, follower story arcs, more factions and inter-faction conflicts, more branching path quests, etc., yes, absolutely, but good lord, no game is perfect.

It's already probably the most fun I've had playing any game in the past 20 years and in some ways it is closer to the roots of pen and paper games than many games with old school stats by sheer dint of having a massively detailed sandbox world that approximates PnP sandbox play with thousands of NPCs, six major factions with decent questlines, 550 unique locations, 410-odd quests, etc.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
1,477
Location
Chocovania
You can't make everyone happy:)
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
5,749
God damn misquoting.

In Morrowind you could do that for everything that wasn't a great house, you'd have to do it carefully, because certain missions would result in you killing other faction quest givers, you also had to have the proper SKILLS, even if the levels were trivially easy to get for the officer ranks(IE 65 I think is the highest,)

Thas all I'm saying, Bethesda used to know how to preserve lore, and mythos, over requiring the PC to be absolutely engaged at every moment.

The Mages guild were particularly good for this, you actually felt like you were a Mage. Helping people out with their research, eventually plotting the downfall of the guild master, because he's an asshole.

The mission structure went

3 quests
story
story
3 quests
story
story
3 quests
etc

as you had time to absorb what you've been doing, and in character, plot, acquire allies, set things in motion, etc.

The Thieves Guild is being covered by a blogger I very much respect, I'll link you to the start of his series on it, it's better written than any drivel I could hope to come up with and points out most of the obvious issues, http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=14422 Compare that to the average questline in Morrowind.

One thing I hope he focuses a bit more on is how much lack of filler there is. Say what you will about filler, but in an RPG, it's necessary to have some filler to pad out gameplay as well as to allow circumstances to set in. In Skyrim there's a big LACK of that, everything comes off as a hackneyed DnD campaign written by an inexperienced DM, for a group of power gamers who slam through every gate in there path like well honed machines.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
53
I don't quite follow your line of reasoning. Without skills how would you measure progression in the areas of expertise you choose to develop?

The line of reasoning that expecting self-restriction from the player for the player to get a role-playing experience is not role-playing but it's a form of LARPing. As in, you could call Doom 2 an RPG where you "role-play" (lol) Ash from Evil Dead, by using only the chainsaw and the super shotgun. That's not how it works. It is the foundational tenet of role-playing that for a role-playing activity to have meaning, it must be presented with a context free of player's own doing such as practicing self-restriction.

By the same line of reasoning, you would measure skill progression by once again restricting yourself and deciding yourself when you should improve, refraining from using certain powers or power attacks or I don't know. It's the same mentality, taking it a step further in practice of self-restriction to make-believe a role-playing experience even though there isn't a context.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
121
by comparison:

RPG Factors: Story, Character, NPC-Interaction, Gameworld, Manipulation, Combat

Drakensang:
3, 5, 4, 3.5, 4.5, 5
RPG Score:= 4.17 => CRPG heavy

The Witcher: 5, 3, 5, 3, 4, 3
RPG Score:= 3.83 => CRPG

Geneforge 4:
5, 4, 5, 3.5, 5, 3
RPG Score:= 4.25 => CRPG heavy

Gothic 3: 4, 3.5, 4.5, 5, 4, 2
RPG Score:= 3.8 => CRPG

Very interesting! Thank you. I hope you continue to analyze future games you play. I am currently working on the Witcher right now.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
791
Please let us all return to a fair objective discussion - emotions are great - for a soup opera :)

The CRPG-Meter encourages a point for point discussion based on facts not feelings.

PS:
Personal attacks are leading to nowhere except frustration.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
19,710
Location
Germany
Back
Top Bottom