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Default Realms Beyond - Coming to Kickstarter in October

August 25th, 2018, 03:29
Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
Do you have any proof that he is a Nazi? Did he break any laws?
In Germany, where free speech isn't really a thing, it's illegal to publicly display a Nazi symbol and he's doing just that on his RPGCodex profile (I assume he lives in Germany)

Anyway, if some people don't want to play a game a person is involved in just because of their beliefs, then that's fine. There are lots of people who also refuse to play games made by outspoken SJWs. Either way, they won't accomplish anything other than denying themselves a potentially good game, because not enough people operate that way to put any serious dent in a game's sales.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:31
There are lots of people who also refuse to play games made by outspoken SJW
That's a false equivalency. Social Justice Warriors believe minorities should be treated with respect. Nazis believe that minorities should be thrown into gas chambers.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:33
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
The proof is all over his social media. For starters, he has videos of nazi parades with patriotic music in the background. That's not the behavior of a normal loving person.
You are an idiot. There are plenty of people (including my family members) who are very interested in WW2 history and have an extensive book and collection of videos on Nazi Germany. That does not make them nazi's. I'm not saying he isn't but at least post some decent evidence rather than the fact that he has a video somewhere of a nazi parade.

Post a link please where he posts his support for Nazi germany.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:35
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
That's a false equivalency. Social Justice Warriors believe minorities should be treated with respect. Nazis believe that minorities should be thrown into gas chambers.
Nah, not really a false equivalency. Many SJWs, at least the ones I'm referring to, are racist against whites, or misandrous. Sure, they aren't killing people, but as far as we know, that's just because they've never been given the kind of power that the Nazis briefly had. Take Manveer Heir from BioWare, for example. Big controversy about him shortly after the release of ME:A, but BioWare dodged it because he'd already left the company. In any case, I doubt it affected ME:A's sales that they had people working on the game who were publicly racist against the race of (likely) the majority of their customers.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:38
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
He didn't break any laws, but anyone that believes my kind should be exterminated is an asshole and I'm uncomfortable supporting any creative project that they're involved in, much less in the position of lead writer.
To be fair though, you've never supported this project. Long before this news about their writer came to light, you seemed to be really dead set against this project, And that's fine, but be honest, you were never going to back or support this project. In fact, you were probably going to post in every single topic about it to remind us that how overrated you think D&D is.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:41
Look, this guy is 100% unequivocally a nazi. I searched through all his social media, and it's damning enough even without considering the shit he posted on the codex.


I'm not concern trolling here. This shit makes me genuinely mad, and if you guys want to pretend it's not a problem because you're potentially getting a good videogame out of turning a blind eye, that's your right. I'm done talking about this.

Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
To be fair though, you've never supported this project.
I was never against it either. I was waiting for more information from the kickstarter, but knowing now that the lead writer is a nazi sympathizer is enough to stay away.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:43
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
To be fair though, you've never supported this project. Long before this news about their writer came to light, you seemed to be really dead set against this project, And that's fine, but be honest, you were never going to back or support this project. In fact, you were probably going to post in every single topic about it to remind us that how overrated you think D&D is.
I think that's true, but I also think that's not the real issue here.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:47
I know this isn't the real issue, but I've always thought Davyd's portrait, even when I first saw it in Age of Decadence, looks like a mugshot of Harrison Ford after his inevitable arrest as a vagrant, had he not lucked into a successful acting career.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:48
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
Look, this guy is 100% unequivocally a nazi. I searched through all his social media, and it's damning enough even without considering the shit he posted on the codex.


I'm not concern trolling here. This shit makes me genuinely mad, and if you guys want to pretend it's not a problem because you're potentially getting a good videogame out of turning a blind eye, that's your right. I'm done talking about this.



I was never against it either. I was waiting for more information from the kickstarter, but knowing now that the lead writer is a nazi sympathizer is enough to stay away.
So give us links that prove it?
Considering your posts history here on multiple topics, you are not really a person we can trust on your word or good judgment.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:50
You're a good guy, Captain. I needed a laugh.
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August 25th, 2018, 03:54
Wow, this thread took a really interesting turn….

Personally, I don't agree (in fact, strongly disagree with their belief) with those so called Neo Nazis, but also don't agree with people who condemn them in an extreme way (like sending death threats etc).

For this game, I don't know what's the truth of this Jarl guy, but even assuming he is the one, that wouldn't stop me buying his game if it's good.

Why? Buying his game doesn't mean I support his Neo Nazi-ism or whatever. It simply means I liked that certain product.

Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
To be fair though, you've never supported this project. Long before this news about their writer came to light, you seemed to be really dead set against this project, And that's fine, but be honest, you were never going to back or support this project. In fact, you were probably going to post in every single topic about it to remind us that how overrated you think D&D is.
Of course, it's not Deadfire the way he is going about it, its almost like he is scared to be proven that other D&D/like games are better/more successful than Deadfire.
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August 25th, 2018, 04:27
Originally Posted by Capt. Huggy Face View Post
I know this isn't the real issue, but I've always thought Davyd's portrait, even when I first saw it in Age of Decadence, looks like a mugshot of Harrison Ford after his inevitable arrest as a vagrant, had he not lucked into a successful acting career.
Haha, I picked this as my avatar because aside from being an AoD fan, the guy kinda looks like me after I've stayed up all night playing video games. (I suppose I could've also gone with the scientist from Dragonfall). Also, "Bennie" can potentially help unlock the weirdest, creepiest ending of the game, and I like bizarre things.
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August 25th, 2018, 05:35
Well it's official everything is political nowadays.

I go to bed and look at what happens.

Usually I see this stuff every day on gaming websites and social media.
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August 25th, 2018, 06:55
It did take a very unexpected turn. I now think I may have come off as a bit of a social justice warrior, which I am not one. For me, it is all about freedom. I don't care what beliefs someone may have, as long as they are not doing illegal or harmful acts.

I tried to explain that, for me, its much more about practicality. I think this game has great potential, and was excited about it, specifically the graphics, presentation style, and combat. But now I feel the kickstarter may be negatively impacted, and they won't raise nearly the kind of money they could have. I don't know, maybe it will, but this is bad publicity, no matter how you slice it.

To be clear, I (of course) am against neo-nazis in terms of their beliefs. But overall, I think the harm principle applies, that as long as they are not actively harming others, then they are allowed to hold their beliefs.

That said, I must admit this also taints the game overall. because now I have to wonder if the main story or other aspects of the plot will contain Nazi propaganda. I hate SJW propaganda in games, and I also would hate neo-nazi propaganda in a game.

This is a very complicated and fascinating subject - art, and political influence and so on.

I am going to talk about a side subject now, if you are not interested in WW2, please skip it. If the admins of this site object, I will of course, delete this. I am not trying to create a new discussion or something. Its just based on what I was looking into, by pure chance, recently. And it relates to the topic.

I was looking into the Dresden bombing recently. For those who don't know, Dresden was firebombed in what many would agree was a war crime by the Allies during WW2. Men, women, children, elderly people, they all were basically incinerated - burned to death - by a horrific fire caused by a bombing campaign over two days. These bombs used phosphorous, which means, that not even diving into water put the fires out. It was absolutely horrific, and read some first hand accounts of survivors to get a feel for the hell that took place. And there was no escape in the city from it. The official estimate is around 25,000 deaths.

If you research it, and look deeper, you will find estimates can go as high as 500,000 people dead. This is where the controversy comes in. Why are there such huge discrepancies when it comes to number of deaths?? Because of propaganda purposes.

The Allies wanted to minimize deaths as much as possible, and they already started feeling guilty about this bombing shortly after they did it. While the Nazis wanted to inflate the number, naturally. The tricky part is where the truth actually lies. I try to be as objective as possible. Leave all my emotions out of it. Looking at the evidence, based on estimates of how many people were in the city at the time, (it was very overcrowded with refugees and normal citizens) and looking at the pictures of the absolute destruction of the aftermath, I find it extremely hard to believe that only 25,000 people died. Let's put it that way. I would say I would confidently put the number instead, based on what research I have seen, at around 100,000, as a very conservative number. That is my honest opinion, as a proud American citizen, but who recognizes that wars often involve shades of gray, and history really is written by the winners, most of the time.

Anyway, sorry I went off on a tangent, I just find history and this kind of debate regarding gaming, art, and politics to be very interesting.
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August 25th, 2018, 07:14
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
But now I feel the kickstarter may be negatively impacted, and they won't raise nearly the kind of money they could have. I don't know, maybe it will, but this is bad publicity, no matter how you slice it.
For sure, I don't know if they will raise enough money they need with this… controversy.

To be clear, I (of course) am against neo-nazis in terms of their beliefs. But overall, I think the harm principle applies, that as long as they are not actively harming others, then they are allowed to hold their beliefs.

That said, I must admit this also taints the game overall. because now I have to wonder if the main story or other aspects of the plot will contain Nazi propaganda. I hate SJW propaganda in games, and I also would hate neo-nazi propaganda in a game.
Yes, I am also concerned about this. No matter how good the game is overall, if this game indeed contains neo nazi propaganda, that's a no buy from me - that's actually supporting neo nazi-ism.
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August 25th, 2018, 07:33
@purpleblob, @Arkadia7

You both made good points in your replies. I feel the same way as you both.

1. A person can believe whatever they want so long as no one is harmed by them.
2. This probably will hurt the funding but hey bad press sells more sometimes.
3. I don't want neo-nazi propaganda in a game also.
4. Yes history is written by the victor and not always accurate.
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August 25th, 2018, 08:54
I'd like to have a look myself. Can someone post a link to his social media? I only found his author Facebook page where on a first look I haven't found anything remarkable.

And btw. the interpretation of freedom of speech allowing people to talk what they want as they don't actually “harm“ anyone is naive.
“Volksverhetzung“ (incitement to hatred) is a crime for a good reason (in Germany but similar also in Austria, France, Spain, and Switzerland and most likely in other countries) because harm is indirectly done. Afaik there isn't any crime like this in the US though.
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August 25th, 2018, 08:59
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
In Germany, where free speech isn't really a thing, it's illegal to publicly display a Nazi symbol and he's doing just that on his RPGCodex profile (I assume he lives in Germany)
Just to clarify, there is freedom of speech and freedom of press in Germany. Your are not allowed to publicly display Nazi symbols outside of research and (to a certain level) art. We don't have the "everything goes" approach the US takes, because we already know where some roads can lead.

There is racism in every society because humans are xenophobic by nature. It is an evolutionary trait to make sure everything new and strange doesn't immediately lead to your death (like eating a fruit you don't know). Now with globalization everything gets harder and there will always be losers. As always it will be blamed on some other group of people, because that's easiest.

If JarlFrank is a studied historian, heck even if he visited a German school (where you get taught about national socialism and how it came about until you can't hear it anymore) he should know that this is not a topic to make ambiguous statements or jokes about. If he is serious about it he is a neo-nazi, if he is joking about it he is an idiot.

I hope all this doesn't hurt your game or Kickstarter because I like what I saw so far and would like to see you succeed. But you have to get your shit straight!
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August 25th, 2018, 09:05
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
“Volksverhetzung“ (incitement to hatred) is a crime for a good reason (in Germany but similar also in Austria, France, Spain, and Switzerland and most likely in other countries).
It's perfectly legal in the US but tends to get censored on social media. So unless you physically assault someone or act with intent to harm you're not prosecuted.

Though new hate crime laws are in place they are very vague.
In June 2017, the Supreme Court affirmed in a unanimous decision on Matal v. Tam that the disparagement clause of the Lanham Act violates the First Amendment's free speech clause. The issue was about government prohibiting the registration of trademarks that are "racially disparaging".

Justice Samuel Alito writes:

"Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express "the thought that we hate". United States v. Schwimmer, 279 U. S. 644, 655 (1929) (Holmes, J., dissenting)."

Justice Anthony Kennedy also writes:

"A law that can be directed against speech found offensive to some portion of the public can be turned against minority and dissenting views to the detriment of all. The First Amendment does not entrust that power to the government's benevolence. Instead, our reliance must be on the substantial safeguards of free and open discussion in a democratic society."

Effectively, the Supreme Court unanimously reaffirms that there is no 'hate speech' exception to the First Amendment.
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August 25th, 2018, 09:16
So it's actually 3.5E rules? Awesome!

Just make sure the animations allow me to make my moves quickly! I've probably already decided my actions several turns in advance and anything slowing me down in carrying them out will get tedious. Even DOS2 was only just fast enough. DOS1 was too slow. The units should have finished their animations before my mouse cursor gets to its next destination. I don't want to wait for animations to carry out before I can click again!
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