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Default Bethesda Softworks - Creation Club @ PC Gamer

June 16th, 2017, 00:36
PC Gamer's opinion about Bethesda's Creation Club:

It's great that Bethesda wants to pay modders, but Creation Club mods should still be free

Bethesda doesn't need to charge for mods—they've been passively profiting from them for years.

Here we go again! Bethesda taking another stab at paid mods—despite saying that Creation Club isn't paid mods. It is, though. There will be new mods you'll have to pay for to use. But there's also been more thought put into Creation Club than the dreadful and half-baked Steam paid mod system from back in 2015. While the last attempt generated anger over the thought of paying for mods and fear that such a system will destroy the modding community, Creation Club itself isn't anything to be too worried about. In fact, with one small change, it could be a great system.

Creation Club, which was announced during E3, is an improvement over the 2015 attempt on Steam in almost every respect. Bethesda is hiring modders to create new content for Fallout 4 and Skyrim Special Edition, and charging players to use it. It won't monetize any existing mods—everything in the Club will be something new, Bethesda says. Been using free mods? You can keep using them, and if Bethesda keeps its word, you won't see a monetized version of an existing mod with new features show up for sale.

Creation Club is also a curated system, unlike the Wild West of Steam's disastrous attempt, which was a chaotic come-one come-all invitation that led to people uploading and attempting to sell previously free mods, or mods that weren't theirs, or mods that used code or assets from other mods without permission. Bethesda says it will be vetting each mod through an application and approval process, which will (we hope) mean no one can just sneak in with something they didn't entirely make themselves.

[…]
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June 16th, 2017, 00:36
I'm of the contrary opinion. The modding of these games will happen whether Bethesda charges for the Creation Club or not. They're a business, not a non-profit organization, and they need to make a profit so they can stay in business and make more games. What a profit on selective modding will do is incentivize all game developers to make their products easier to mod.
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June 16th, 2017, 01:14
I do agree with Cristopher Livingston's viewpoint. Bethesda already profits from mods, though indirectly. It means Bethesda can stay in gaming business making more of their valuable, top notch, state-of-the-art games, as they're proeminently doing in the last decade.

They don't need money from modders or from mods to stay in business. Bethesda need to think their games out of the box. Enough cloning your own games, Bethesda (FO3 -> FO4, TES IV -> TES V)

EDIT: I am glad to see one of the major gaming sites NOT DEFENDING Bethesda's new approach to this subject.
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Last edited by henriquejr; June 16th, 2017 at 01:26. Reason: Edit section
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June 16th, 2017, 02:22
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
they need to make a profit so they can stay in business
That's laughable. They need to make profits to feed the purses of the higher ups while they keep giving terrible work conditions for everyone actually doing games for them and mistreating their IPs and the studios under them. Bethesda could GIVE away Skyrim and Fallout 4 to everyone who wants them for a year and they still wouldn't go out of business.

This is despicable and a shameless exploitation of their customers and they're gonna get away with it. Because of people who think "oh, they need the money, the poor little ones".

You know who needs the money? Obsidian. Do you see them charging for mods? Release stolen mods as DLC? Releasing horse armor? Inxile. Do you see them releasing a patched version of their 5 year old game and charging full price for it? Do you see them drop support for their games and not bother to patch bugs? Do you see them delay press copies until the day of release while sending early builds to chosen youtubers so they can shill their games?

No. Do you know why? Because they need the money. Obsidian and Inxile need the money, so they care about their customers. They might not do everything as well as they should, but they put the effort in. Bethesda doesn't.
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June 16th, 2017, 02:53
Originally Posted by Morbus View Post
That's laughable. They need to make profits to feed the purses of the higher ups while they keep giving terrible work conditions for everyone actually doing games for them and mistreating their IPs and the studios under them. Bethesda could GIVE away Skyrim and Fallout 4 to everyone who wants them for a year and they still wouldn't go out of business.

This is despicable and a shameless exploitation of their customers and they're gonna get away with it. Because of people who think "oh, they need the money, the poor little ones".

You know who needs the money? Obsidian. Do you see them charging for mods? Release stolen mods as DLC? Releasing horse armor? Inxile. Do you see them releasing a patched version of their 5 year old game and charging full price for it? Do you see them drop support for their games and not bother to patch bugs? Do you see them delay press copies until the day of release while sending early builds to chosen youtubers so they can shill their games?

No. Do you know why? Because they need the money. Obsidian and Inxile need the money, so they care about their customers. They might not do everything as well as they should, but they put the effort in. Bethesda doesn't.
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June 16th, 2017, 03:10
@rshae He is right, you know.

"they need to make a profit so they can stay in business" is pure, undiluted BS. As if Bethesda is hinging on Creation Club for survival, hahahah. That's some pathetic excuse. They are constantly making profit and own a dozen of franchises.
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June 16th, 2017, 03:15
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I'm of the contrary opinion. The modding of these games will happen whether Bethesda charges for the Creation Club or not. They're a business, not a non-profit organization, and they need to make a profit so they can stay in business and make more games. What a profit on selective modding will do is incentivize all game developers to make their products easier to mod.
Or they will turn in even bigger parasites by relying on modding community to fix and polish their own games.
Like, dunno?..Skyrim Special Edition that four years after initial release had exactly the same issues that amateur moders have easily fixed.
This would be a different matter if it was in the hands of competent, highly professional and ethical developer/publisher.
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June 16th, 2017, 03:22
Originally Posted by BoboTheMighty View Post
Or they will turn in even bigger parasites by relying on modding community to fix and polish their own games.

Been like that since I can remember. Bethesda has always been about shipping tools + broken game. Todd is a genius. Their next step is monetizing modding. So they can sit on their asses and get even more filthy rich. It's the same philosophy of exploitation as the one used by the big banking creditors. The goal is a financial perpetuum mobile, an automated money machine.
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June 16th, 2017, 05:18
Originally Posted by luj1 View Post
The goal is a financial perpetuum mobile, an automated money machine.
Dude, that's my plan. Ha ha ha ha ha…
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June 16th, 2017, 08:00
I think it will turn out great and hopefully inspire competitors to make their games more moddable.
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June 16th, 2017, 08:09
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I'm of the contrary opinion. The modding of these games will happen whether Bethesda charges for the Creation Club or not. They're a business, not a non-profit organization, and they need to make a profit so they can stay in business and make more games. What a profit on selective modding will do is incentivize all game developers to make their products easier to mod.
Greed doesn't have to be a bad thing, but just don't call it need.

Need implies they can't profit in other ways and survive as a company without monetizing mods, which is obviously a completely stupid suggestion.

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June 16th, 2017, 10:03
Mods are the only way to play the bland and buggy Beth games. You also need them to fix bad design decisions.

All modern Beth games (maybe with the exception of Morrowind, which also broke when you became overpowered) become boring very fast in vanilla. I could never imagine people putting hundreds of hours into vanilla Skyrim. I had similar numbers, but my game was tailor-made for me by a myriad of mods.

My point being: Without the great modding scene they would have sold less games. I already didn't buy FO4 and if they go on like this I will likely not getting the next TES, too.
Guess I will be buying the first SureAI stand-alone then.
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June 16th, 2017, 10:40
I have more than 300 hours clocked on Skyrim and I own every DLC but I never really played more than 20 hours of the vanilla game. I never even finished the main quest, a thesis in boredom, if any.
All the rest of my game time was provided by the modding community. Let's not talk about Fallout III and IV.

They know what they owe to the modding company. But, they have really delusion of being the genius behind the scene. You just have to hear them in interviews: We have very good designers, and good programmers, and experience, and we know stuff and so on and so on.
They probably think they have to coral the external creativity and give it a good old US bland corporate bullshit painting all over. And if that brings more money..

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June 16th, 2017, 10:56
Yes this is greed but I am not fussed if they charge for their mods provided they don't somehow cripple people who make free mods.

Given how big business work, I have feeling that for the next ES game, free modding tools will be limited compared to the tools Bethesda "partners" will get….
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June 16th, 2017, 11:01
All the rest of my game time was provided by the modding community. Let's not talk about Fallout III and IV.
Suuuure, the modders did all the work here. Bethsoft didn't develop the engine work, assets, systems, animations, sound, music and so on

Yeah, that's right!

Amazing the fantasies people can create to justify their irrational stand on Bethesda.

Yes, some mods are cool and represent good work. But 99% of all modded Skyrims consist of 1% of modders work.

Let's be real.

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June 16th, 2017, 11:15
While I do agree with most of you, it would be interesting to see how many people actually mod their games. The people on this forum hardly represent the average gamer. My guess is that a really small percentage of the buyers use mods, so to say Bethesda is dependent on the mod community is hardly accurate?

If this means more people will start to use mods, AND the mod developers will actually get paid for their hard work, then that's a good thing. Nothing wrong with Bethesda also making more money from it as long as the modders get most of it. I have my doubts that's how it's going to work though.
Last edited by TomRon; June 16th, 2017 at 17:06.
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June 16th, 2017, 11:18
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
Suuuure, the modders did all the work here. Bethsoft didn't develop the engine work, assets, systems, animations, sound, music and so on

Yeah, that's right!

Amazing the fantasies people can create to justify their irrational stand on Bethesda.

Yes, some mods are cool and represent good work. But 99% of all modded Skyrims consist of 1% of modders work.

Let's be real.
You should really learn to read. Never did I say that.
You know obviously nothing about the modding community.

Taking the exact opposite of everything people say do not make you look cool or clever. Quite the opposite.
You are becoming a bother.

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June 16th, 2017, 11:19
Originally Posted by Aerth View Post
You should really learn to read. Never did I say that.
You know obviously nothing about the modding community.

Taking the exact opposite of everything people say do not make you look cool or clever. Quite the opposite.
You are becoming a bother.
All the rest of my game time was provided by the modding community. Let's not talk about Fallout III and IV.

I can read. You can't stand by your words or you don't know what they mean. There's a difference.

Yes, there's every chance I will be a bother to you - if you keep spouting bullshit like that

If you can't be rational and fair, then I suggest you put me on ignore right away.

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June 16th, 2017, 11:24
Yes, and? You do not know what a mod is and you make noise about it?

Mods in Skyrim change the quests, the assets, the sounds, the lights, the story, the landscapes, the places, the people, the craft, the magic, the rules, the weapons, the armors. Everything.

Skyrim vanilla itself is an official mod running on an engine which has also patched to work better: they changed the UI, some DLLs, some graphic optimizations too taking the rendering of the engine to add some layers on it.

You know shit, my boy.

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June 16th, 2017, 11:30
Originally Posted by Aerth View Post
Yes, and? You do not know what a mod is and you make noise about it?

Mods in Skyrim change the quests, the assets, the sounds, the lights, the story, the landscapes, the places, the people, the craft, the magic, the rules, the weapons, the armors. Everything.

Skyrim vanilla itself is an official mod running on an engine which has also patched to work better: they changed the UI, some DLLs, some graphic optimizations too taking the rendering of the engine to add some layers on it.

You know shit, my boy.
I think we all know what mods do. YOU don't seem to understand what's involved with changing a sound effect versus actually developing a game that plays that sound in the correct way - or fiddling with numbers in an editor that are automatically integrated into an existing codebase developed by someone else. There's a reason Bethsoft did all that work to provide the Creation tools - which is also their work OUTSIDE of the game itself.

Some mods do more through third-party software that's also provided by other people - but, as I said, the vast majority of mods represent absolutely nothing in terms of work compared to a team of a hundred professional developers working 8+ hours a day for several years. There are exceptions with a lot of unique content and small modding teams - but they're very rare.

It should be pretty simple to understand for most people.

You also seem to have a very hard time appreciating what it takes to develop a complex and fully working game from a base licensed engine.

In short, your final statement is deliciously ironic.

But I think we've been off topic long enough now - and we can all see how little you actually know about the process you're trying to appear educated about.

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